The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

I pretty much sum it up with these questions and observations:

Why was Kit obfuscating?

Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green would never embarrass his service record or his long-proven allegiance.

Kit wasn't the type to lie for petty purposes. He's obviously a man of honor, even if we might perceive--and rightly so--that the experiment(s) contain psychological cruelty.

A Top Secret obligation from Kit is not only Occam's, it fits ALL the evidence squeaky tight in why he was disingenuous at times.

The Memes were powerful, they penetrated to a fair depth in our society. Even after they were largely debunked, they had some staying power. That was unlikely to be by chance and strongly suggested structuring by psychological adepts of great understanding and education. Not Doty and Collins I was pretty sure.

The MJ-12 papers were exceptional as far as forgeries go--they blew poor ol' Stanton's mind--and suggested budget and intelligence skill.

All the key players were intelligence pros. No one got into any real trouble as a result of the scams. Doty had to take some heat, but that's what junior operatives do in a compromised operation. Although Kit refused to totally sell him down the river, partly for security reasons, but obviously, I think, out of loyalty too.

THAT's just the nutshell Gazrok. With your sharp intellect, I really think it would be worth your while to work through this whole thread. I know it's a lot of information, but divining the truth in a game run by intelligence professionals requires some stamina.

Meanwhile back in a pensive Gotham City...

"Holy gosh Batman, does this mean the Joker was working for a secret cabal of industrialists and the military in an attempt to cause panic and fear such that, the populace would hap[ily sleepwalk into the idea that, taking away their choice would be to protect their freedom.."

"Exactly Robin....Let's run this through the Bat Computer and see's what it has to say..."

"Holy Conundrums Batman the Bat Computer has answered with a fiendish riddle what can this mean?"

Batman pacing the secret lair of the enemy of crime...

"When reality and dreams intersect, who draws the line to differentiate, the rider, his companion, or the horse?

Holy bricklayers Batman, the Bat Computer has been hacked by that perfidious purveyor of piffle the Riddler.

Batman, turns sucking his slight paunch into his utility belt.....

"No Robin the trusty Bat Computer is merely responding as programmed."

Holy Punchcards batman, what does it all mean?....

It means Robin, Batman taps the punchcard on his chin, It means Robin, that we are facing THE most dangerous organisation ever...

Smashing his fist into a gloved palm.... "Holy conspiracies batman you mean....?????

Yes Robin, The Prions of the 5 iron........

Holy Baphomet Batman.....

Yes Robin...... turns and walks purposely towards the Bat Cupboard.... to the Batbong Boy Wonder...

Narrators voice..... "Is the end for Batman and Robin, defeated by an organisation so subtle it may not even exist? Is Batman on the level, is Robin truly the son of a poor widow? Does Commissioner Gordon really go bowling on Thursdays, or is he secretly co-writing Dan Brown's and Alan Moore's books? If Alfred really is just the Butler then why is there no verb to Butle.?

All this and more shall revealed, in our next apocalyptic episode, stay tuned Bat aficionados,, same Bat time same Bat Channel...

reply to post by Gazrok
In addition to the above nutshell, I offer the following, not as irrefutable in any way, but if you, in your own research, determine that the pseudonymous "Jim" in Gus Russo's uber-fascinating article Is Uncle Sam a Closet Ufologist? is indeed Dr. Christorpher "Kit" Green, as a few researchers have, then it's not only illuminating but should make you mad as heck.

Gus is no fly-by-nighter and his work has been nominated for a Pulitzer:

Dan Rather chose Russo to represent the critics of the Warren Report in his 1993 television special, Who Shot JFK? Russo was also employed as an investigative reporter for ABC News and worked with Peter Jennings on the television production of Dangerous World, The Kennedy Years.

In 1998 Russo published Live By The Sword: The Secret War against Castro and the Death of JFK…the book was well received by the anti-conspiracy media and was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize.

www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk…

Okay, some excerpts from Gus' article:

Then there is Jim, whose professional history in the subject goes back to his personal involvement in the Stargate project in the 1970’s and as a participant in the legendary “Working Group” meetings in the eighties. As one of the intel community’s most senior medical analysts, Jim frequently communicates with UFOlogists.

"Jim" sounds kind o' familiar so far I would say, let's pick right back up with the very next sentence:

Chris Iverson believes that Tom and Jim clearly have differing agendas, noting, “Jim is the person I have had the most contact with over the last several months and he seems to be interested in the spreading of viral memes over the internet, particularly in relation to this subject.”…

“The whole subject,” Jim says in wonderfully measured speech, “is composed of three components: delusion, sociological groupthink, and a kernel of truth.” Jim then reminds that he is first and foremost a medical scientist. “My interest in this subject is much, much more professional than it is personal. That is, 90 to 95% of all persons who are engaged fully with this [UFO] subject are psychiatrically ill, and by that I mean that they are on medication or should be.” Jim elaborates that “viral memes,”[see below] in which disturbed people seek validation in numbers on the web, is, or should be, a growing public health concern. That said, Jim nonetheless has a real interest in UFO’s, and seemingly with good reason.

Both Tom and Jim seem to share at least one rationale for their internet excursions: studying the frightening potential of “viral internet memes.”

Coined by evolutionary theorist Richard Dawkins in 1976 (The Selfish Gene), a meme is a unit of cultural information that evolves the way a gene propagates from one organism to another, and subject to all the analogous unintended mutations. In the view of many, computers and blogs could function as powerful meme “replicators.”

Richard Brodie, the creator of Microsoft Word, notes, “Most of these viruses of the mind are spread because they are intriguing or frightening or inspiring, and not necessarily because they're true. That's the problem.” It doesn’t take much intuition to envision an enemy creating memes that can be used to destabilize a society, or a freelance predator utilizing them to cozy up to potential victims. Caryn Anscomb writes online,

“The UFO community has been deeply penetrated by the manipulators of information, who couldn’t really give a fig whether there might be any valuable data pertaining to Aliens and contact hidden behind the deafening noise. That’s not their business; their business is information warfare.”

If 90-95% of us are "psychiatrically ill" as stated in the above quote by "Jim" I fail to see how ufological memes would be good medicine.

"Jim" or Dr. Green does go on to state he's heard some rumors about ET but doesn't know what to make of them. Which is inline with Dr, Jacques Vallee's extended discussion of Kit Green in Forbidden Science II which I have also quoted from rather extensively in this thread and are, I believe, very well worth reading.

reply to post by FireMoon
Holy Guano, FireMoon, that was hee-larious!

reply to post by FireMoon
dbl post

Another cracking post there TG.... Maybe, we have the nub of the problem , the issue at hand. Just who defines what the term "psychiatrically ill" means? Outside of the utter balmcake candidates, it is wholly subjective and almost completely based and biased in one's own belief systems?

One could, if one were of a conspiratorial nature, simply replace the word "Ill" with the phrase "off message"?

.

reply to post by The GUT

4.) They are tied to the hip with intelligence factions and their prime directive(s) include ufological deception.

If you find that line of thinking valid, which side do you fall on?

That. Any secrets organization whose sole responsibility is to keep secrets while ferreting out other nations and organizations is not in the truth business. If they utter something it is along the lines of their primary goals to keep secrets. In that regard they tell lies. Lies with a little truth maybe, but mostly out and out bald faced lies. Its their job. Damage control, back tracking, disinformation, distraction, whatever.

I use that as a barometer. If they are re re-re-releasing information over the years/decades on a specific subject, that is how I can tell there is in fact something to it. Their job is to keep that secret so why are they even saying anything? To cover it up. To keep the real truth hidden.

By the way, once CIA, Always CIA. Any hint they are not is to distract people thinking they have "turned", retired or gone rogue. So now you can listen to them and regard what they are now saying as the truth?

Bah...

Another tell is the weight the media gives to the subject over time. I don't mean the Main stream, but the little channels that keep rehashing crap (like Lazar and his CIA handler) over and again over the years. Just enough of a campaign to interest people (area 51 secrets) and then little additions over time.

For a difference in how the state really handles releasing state secrets, just look at Manning, and Snowden. The whole world shuts down.

reply to post by The GUT


Will have to try and dig up the refs . . . HOWEVER, I'm 99.9999% certain that the few to several decent surveys and testings that have been done

[color=6699FF]have DEMONSTRATED THAT the

UFO experiencers and . . . afficianados . . . those interested above average in the topic . . . are NOT

psychiatrically/psychologically/emotionally ill . . . and certainly not above the average population.

The only factor that stood out was some slight increase in PTSD . . . much as rape victims tend to have.

!DOH! Small wonder THAT!


All of which leaves me suspicious that "Jim" has an agenda in spreading that falsehood.

IIRC, Some studies even indicated that those who believed in the craft and critters as real tended to be slightly above average in IQ, in ED and in emotional stability.

I realize that pokes holes in the gov's propaganda . . . hmmmmm

Originally posted by BO XIAN
All of which leaves me suspicious that "Jim" has an agenda in spreading that falsehood.

With your credentials in the psychiatric field, it can't be ignored. Having said that: Yes, there is compelling reason to believe that the kind of testing/meme spreading we're looking at here isn't only and exactly for the types of "national security" issues that they might want us to think but, rather, manipulation of our population here at home ala Orwell as well.

There is a documentable series of official papers that show that the ever-paranoid intelligence realm has been hyper-worried for quite some time that the U.S. populous is gonna explode in rage at some point. Does that sound crazy? If so, once again, it's not my words but their own in black & white.

This includes rather interesting paid consultancies for Msrs Green and Alexander in the "non-lethal' weaponry for hire business in addition to their state-sponsored research in those same areas.

Col. Alexander in particular has a keen affinity for not only non-lethal weaponry, but has co-authored at least one paper on how the military is, and should continue to be, blended with state police forces. Is that Constitutional? Not under the original he swore allegiance to. But admittedly falls in line with the one, sadly, that we have today.

I'll post some evidence along those lines as soon as I can collate it. Thank you.

And now a word from Jim Oberg. I've actually come to respect him--ever so slowly--quite a bit. I don't, anymore, believe he's a shill for NASA and/or other agencies. Don't get me wrong, if there are any big secrets being kept by the gubmint as regards the very real UFO phenomenon, they probably haven't let Jim in on it.

My suspicion, however, is that our government is just about as clueless as we are on what the phenomenon is. If they exist, they aren't just smarter than us--the lay folk--they're smarter than ALL of us and perfectly capable of keeping everyone in the dark.

Actually, imo, there are folk here at ATS that have figured out more than NASA has.

That's not to say that Jim knows nothing 'cause I think he does. He is even willing to share what he knows. Check out his open letter to CSETI from 1997. Pay special attention to paragraphs 3 & 4:

Open letter to CSETI:

I applaud CSETI's efforts to strip away the "government secrets prosecution" barrier to the disclosure of people's stories about UFO experiences and I fully support the call for a government declaration that all legal constraints against disclosure be dissolved. I've always felt that claims of fear of such prosecution as an excuse by people not to "go public" was often merely a gimmick not to have to take responsibility for the authenticity of such stories, since as far as I've been able to tell -- and through OMNI's "Project Open Book" we searched far and wide for examples -- nobody has ever been arrested or charged -- much less convicted and sentenced -- for actually doing so.

But don't stop merely with legalizing disclosure of all -- if any -- government secrets about "real UFOs". I believe there is a far more valuable body of "secrets" that will help understand the decades of UFO phenomena that the world has experienced. This deals with government-related activities which directly or indirectly led to public perceptions that UFOs might be real when they weren't. Sometimes these actions were carefully orchestrated in advance, sometimes they were localized impromptu ad hoc damage- limitation tactics. But from my own experience, they seem to have played a tremendous and widely unappreciated role in inciting and enflaming public interests in UFOs while deflecting public attention from real highly-classified government activities.

I'm referring to situations where government representatives -- officials, military officers, any employees -- used "UFO" as a convenient camouflage for other official classified activities (such as retrieval of crashed aircraft or nuclear weapons or other objects), or used artificial "UFO stories" (in oral, written, photographic, film, etc.) form as "tracers" in studying the function of security safeguards and personnel psychological responses, or used "UFO" as an excuse (either intended or accidental) to cover-up improper, forbidden, or diplomatically delicate activities (such as aviation incidents involving dangerous accidental or deliberate close passes or intercepts of civilian airliners, or overseas excursions of agents on intelligence missions where deflection of local perceptions was useful, or to conceal from the country of origin the possession of foreign military hardware), or played pranks and jokes on intended or accidental targets, or any other activity that the government -- or any part of it -- wanted to keep hidden, knowing that having it thought of as "UFO-related" would consign it to the never-never- land of myth and nuttiness, thus keeping mainstream media attention to a minimum. And it's worked!!

Please include such "UFO secrets" in your list of disclosure demands, and ask that any government personnel involved in the use (or misuse and abuse) of such practices be immune from any government prosecution for the actions which led them to take such measures. Once such immunity is verifiably granted, I have my own list of people who have privately talked to me over the years and who were involved in government activities leading to a number of well-known "UFO cases", which can be released and which can help understand where and how much of today's UFO mythology originated.

This is a serious proposal deserving of serious consideration, and promises immensely fruitful results.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Mr. Oberg, btw, apparently caught some flak and intimidation for having the gaul to address these issues. But, it appears, he actually has "big ones" because he has stated on another thread of mine that he stands by these statements…regardless of any agencies that might not like it. I feel his sincerity in the above, can you?

Originally posted by FireMoon
Another cracking post there TG.... Maybe, we have the nub of the problem , the issue at hand. Just who defines what the term "psychiatrically ill" means? Outside of the utter balmcake candidates, it is wholly subjective and almost completely based and biased in one's own belief systems?

One could, if one were of a conspiratorial nature, simply replace the word "Ill" with the phrase "off message"?

.

INDEED.

And the Soviets developed that into a 'grand' scheme for putting away thousands of dissidents who were 'off message.'

There are hints that the global government is of a similar mind and plan.

Though this time . . . putting away will mean . . . to dispense with the "mentally ill"

i.e.
--patriots
--Pentecostals who believe in miracles and Christ's 2nd Coming (particularly punished in a large Asian country).
--non-globalists
--veterans
--Conservatives
--Tea Partiers
--UFO/CRITTER realists who don't buy the government line.
. . .
--perhaps those stupid and dogged enough to still work for a living . . .

the mentally "ill" "useless eaters" once and for all.

reply to post by The GUT


Jim is a very intelligent man with a long list of credentials. I respect him as well, but I don't think he is privy to a depth of gubmint (as you say) intel. I also don't really think the gubmint is all that privy to information on the subject. I am with you on that topic.

I am fairly convinced that no humans in normal functional channels of societal involvement have any clue as to the nature of this thing. There may be humans that are involved, but I'm not too sure of it. I am still open as to the nature of this deception, and that is what it is, but I am not yet ready to pin it on one culprit.

reply to post by The GUT


Well put.

BTW, Thanks for your kind words. Trouble is . . . everyone fancies themselves Jr psychologists of equal expertise with those of us who doggedly earned the PhD. LOL. Even my own family. LOL. Kind of like a prophet is not without honor except in his hometown. LOL.

It's often mystified me . . . Someone with a genius IQ studies the topic for 51 years . . . getting a PhD in clinical psych along the way . . . and is still considered a stupid idiot on the topic compared to someone who's not studied it at all but has 100% rigidly firm conclusions, biases and assumptions on the topic based on . . . well . . . biases and assumptions. Sheesh.

What a curious phenomenon that is. I've tried to lessen the incidences of my batting my head against that brick wall in my family. Thankfully some of them KNOW better . . . one still alive who worked adjacent to a base for the craft.

/rant

In terms of evils . . . they appear to be in this field at every level of many multi-layered 'onions' and for a number of purposes.

It's possibly like the Federal gravy train . . . need something super hidden; super deceptive; super complex; super manipulative; super black . . . hide it in a corner of the UFO stuff--there's room for all the black ops folks there, it seems. Sheesh.

Originally posted by wtbengineer
reply to post by The GUT

 

Jim is a very intelligent man with a long list of credentials. I respect him as well, but I don't think he is privy to a depth of gubmint (as you say) intel. I also don't really think the gubmint is all that privy to information on the subject. I am with you on that topic.

I am fairly convinced that no humans in normal functional channels of societal involvement have any clue as to the nature of this thing. There may be humans that are involved, but I'm not too sure of it. I am still open as to the nature of this deception, and that is what it is, but I am not yet ready to pin it on one culprit.

WTB, you are possibly the most under the radar worthwhile member we have here. You know how I feel about that. Glad to see you are still tuning in.

DOH...I need to send you that PDF! Sorry for taking so long, my respected friend. I'm behind on a multitude of stuff...dangitt.

Originally posted by wtbengineer
reply to post by The GUT

 

Jim is a very intelligent man with a long list of credentials. I respect him as well, but I don't think he is privy to a depth of gubmint (as you say) intel. I also don't really think the gubmint is all that privy to information on the subject. I am with you on that topic.

I am fairly convinced that no humans in normal functional channels of societal involvement have any clue as to the nature of this thing. There may be humans that are involved, but I'm not too sure of it. I am still open as to the nature of this deception, and that is what it is, but I am not yet ready to pin it on one culprit.

You make an interesting point . . .

If only the super elite globalists . . . say the folks who purportedly have to bugger toddler boys and brutally sacrifice them literally to satan to gain entrance to the top levels of the NWO . . .

it is PLAUSIBLE that they--or maybe a few of them--have been incorporated into the fallen angel management of the rush to push the globe into one world religion and one world government . . .

VIA

the grand "arrival" of an "armada" from purported distant stars.

Scheduled right; framed right; manipulated right . . . probably little else would be as powerful to bend the world's remaining religions into one.

There have been puzzle pieces along the way that indicate that lower ranks even in the NWO and certainly mere government functionaries and figure heads are COWED by the topic and those "in the know" on the topic.

Cowed as in terrified of stepping out of line on such matters.

Also, IF the critters have been--as many have indicated for decades--not been very open about what they are up to--with any humans . . . and, IF as one report claimed, at a high level secret meeting of the UN at an underground duplicate chamber--all the elite concerned were assembled . . . and finally after a dramatic wait--some tall greys marched in and took their places of honor and proceeded to tell all the countries of the world what they were going to do next--as so ordered by the critters. . . . hmmmm

reply to post by The GUT


No worries GUT my friend! I just wanted to let you know that I am here and I am paying attention. I just don't post much. No rush on that, I just finished Vallee's Messengers of Deception and found some new nuggets in that one. Thanks for the vote of confidence btw.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Yes, this is one of the scenarios that would make sense, but I am not quite ready to throw all my cards in. I have had experiences of my own and read about so many that have similar aspects.... I am still searching out all the facts that we can gather.