The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

reply to post by The GUT


Not sure what you mean by your thinking I might be he. Nevertheless, it's understandable that you might feel nervous about your activities. Rest assured that I don't need to play games on the net. I'm confident in my own perceptive abilities and critical thinking skills that I can hold my own well enough.

As for cleaning up the mess which you characterize as sweeping the floor, it's more like opening the door to a room stuffed to the ceiling with garbage -- a job best reserved for those so inclined to tackle it. Flooding the field with a load of bs is just another distraction from keeping my eye on the ball and is a well known method of disinformation. Especially when a few grains of truth are mixed in with the junk.

After reading this thread and most of the links, I feel I've sample enough of this topic to know that it's not me. I do wish you good fortune in your Herculean endeavor; we do live in interesting times.

Originally posted by gguyx
reply to post by The GUT

 

As for cleaning up the mess which you characterize as sweeping the floor, it's more like opening the door to a room stuffed to the ceiling with garbage -- a job best reserved for those so inclined to tackle it. Flooding the field with a load of bs is just another distraction from keeping my eye on the ball and is a well known method of disinformation. Especially when a few grains of truth are mixed in with the junk.

After reading this thread and most of the links, I feel I've sample enough of this topic to know that it's not me. I do wish you good fortune in your Herculean endeavor; we do live in interesting times.

Thanks and my apologies for harboring the thought. You are waaaay too intelligent and well-spoken to be the "dim-bulb'ed one."

I do understand folk ignoring the UFO MEMES so as to keep their eye on the ball.

"If we use bird names on tha' sock, those psychiatrically ill ufo dimwits will never figure it out..."

What the Double-Cross experts had invented was the practical political applications of the Strange Loop. In logic or cybernetics, a Strange Loop is a set of propositions that, while valid at each point, is so constructed that it leads to an unresolvable paradox. The Double-Cross people drove the Germans bonkers by inventing disinformation systems that, if believed, were deceptive, but if doubted led to a second disinformation system. They enjoyed this work so much that, at times, they invented Triple Loops...

These Strange Loops functioned especially well because the Double-Cross experts had early on fed the Germans the primordial Strange Loop. "Most of your agents are working for us and feeding your Strange Loops."

Many German agents, it later turned out, had managed to collect quite a bit of accurate information about the Normandy invasion, but many others turned in equally plausible information about a fictitious Norwegian invasion; and all of them were under suspicion, anyway. German Intelligence might as well have made its decisions by tossing a coin in the air."

--Robert Anton Wilson

Remote Viewing Water Boy: Franklin "Ari Siverstein" Camper

In the linked story below we find an MK-ULTRA-type saga of Rendlesham Mind-Control & UFOs with a special guest appearance by Frank "Don't blame me I was a mind-control victim myself" Camper? Shizzle is Wizzle my Pizzle!

Probably wrote the story himself? The kid gives his name, does anyone know if he's showed up in the Rendlesham UFO enigma elsewhere? Jacques Vallee (cue the synchronicity please) has written that he believes the Rendlesham incident to have been a bizarre test on the service men using various technology.

I was self taught on a lot of weapons yet at the time I knew about everything I could know about USA and com bloc weapons. I was trained by the notorious Frank Camper at the Recondo School in Alabama and did a bunch of things I could right a book about.
www.alien-ufos.com...

Skanklin HATES the following vids because they show what a sociopath he is. But, since he was a nark/stooge for some unethical government operation that ended up getting some folk bombed by terrorists he trained, I direct your attention to the second half below titled, "Camper Takes Advantage of Some Poor Kids," Check out those poor, unfortunate and not-so-bright kids. Would you train them to kill? Of course not.

Were they ever hypnotized, I wonder? Could they have been experimented on? Once one's mind is "cracked" would that explain the sociopathic behavior exhibited by the dude here and around the internet?

Camper: Trainer of Terrorists - Prize of Turkey Hunters

Camper Takes Advantage of Some Poor Kids

I mean, Hey! It's all too weird to believe right? Right? Right! And yet cries the Raven, "evermore, evermore" coincidence in our bowl of Strange "Fruit" Loops...

I gotta run right now, but later we'll be looking at a FOIA document from the MK/Artichoke/Blue Bird papers that might just cast an eery & very bizarre light on this dark subject.

The government scientists involved in those--ahem--"studies" AND those studying remote viewing, both used hypnotism in an attempt to evoke--or enhance--psychic powers...in addition to using people mercilessly.

As a matter of fact, some researchers have proffered the idea that the remote viewing project might have been a continuation of MK itself. I think there are elements of evidence that suggest that.

Has anyone seen Alice?...'cause this is one weird hole...

“The whole subject,” Jim says in wonderfully measured speech, “is composed of three components: delusion, sociological groupthink, and a kernel of truth.” Jim then reminds that he is first and foremost a medical scientist. “My interest in this subject is much, much more professional than it is personal. That is, 90 to 95% of all persons who are engaged fully with this [UFO] subject are psychiatrically ill, and by that I mean that they are on medication or should be.” Jim elaborates that “viral memes,”[see below] in which disturbed people seek validation in numbers on the web, is, or should be, a growing public health concern. That said, Jim nonetheless has a real interest in UFO’s, and seemingly with good reason.

Both Tom and Jim seem to share at least one rationale for their internet excursions: studying the frightening potential of “viral internet memes.”

It is probable that our perception of the way ideas spread is warped by the virus analogy built into the word "meme". "Viral meme" is loaded with the notion that all ideas are potential pathogens. It is, I must say, a phrase that carries a paranoiac taint.

But it seems to be the phrase Dr. Green employs, and he is after all the expert here. Although I did so facetiously in my prior posts, I can now safely assume I may address Dr. Green directly? Well, first of all, I sincerely apologize for my flippancy and occasional rudeness. I believe you have good intentions, and I can barely imagine what pressures you must endure in your line of work.

But. If the GUT is accurate with his (pretty airtight) connect-the-dots act here, then you guys intentionally inoculated a group of vulnerable civilians with a pathogenic (by your own definition) meme for experimental purposes.

Dr. Green? That's not OK.

I gotta admit I'm having a very hard time putting these pieces together. As I understand it the Aviary is kind of a trash can that wasn't invented by anyone considered inside the trash can, though they may refer to themselves as such after the fact. It follows that there is no real connection between the birds except insofar as others have labeled them as such or perhaps observed them fouling the same nest. Get it? Fowling? I'm so funny!

So where does Frank fit into all this? He seems like a two-bit player looking through the window at a high stakes game. What's he got to bring to the table except a felony conviction? My ten year old grandson wouldn't stoop to the immature antics he does. Plus why waste the time? Even a low-life loser like him must value his time sitting on the pot more than a completely ineffectual internet romper room juvenile crime spree. All this serves to do is give the OP, The GUT, two more points per post. Not that points are worth anything, but they might be some day. Who knows? Hmmm, maybe The GUT......Nooooo. Couldn't be! (Mel Gibson and Danny Glover in "Maverick")

Now I can get off on the idea that a few operatives decided to pwn Club UFO for fun, profit, and experimental results. It's a convenient target to watch meme propagation. But it seems to me there have been too many people from disparate places putting too much effort into this to make it a simple laboratory to test a wild-eyed theory or two. It affects too many people personally to justify what has to be an expensive proposition overall. All these GS-12's, O-6's, and E-7's want their paychecks and pensions and someone somewhere has to approve a spreadsheet.

Why do it at all? Power? OK. The Aviary has Power over Club UFO. Whoopee. What does that buy you. Money? I see no cash flow options at all. None. Disruption? Why? Club UFO provides its own disruption. A little Steven Greer mixed with a little Billy Meier, Dr. Kenneth Reed, and Dan Burisch and you've got yourself some built-in disruption. The best way to disrupt Club UFO is to do nothing.

So what is the Grand Design? I would submit to you that it cannot simply be to keep secret,

"The Space Brothers are here!"

That's too mundane. C’mon! We're the Star Trek generation. The religious people are ready for it. The Vatican says, "Meh?" The fundamentalists will just say, "I told you so. Yes, I did. Uh huh!" and the atheists, by virtue of being the smartest people in the known Universe, should expect it as a matter of course. Their basic question should be, "Cool! So how did you do it?" and go after the technology. And as for the guys with a six inch lift on their $50,000 diesel pick-em up trucks who live in a double wide where their kids don't have shoes? I wouldn't think it would cost them more than an extra six-pack and belch, and a box of shotgun shells from WalMart.

So where's the beef???

I suggest that if this is to have an "Oh, my God!" type of impact that it must be related to Capital R Reality and that certain parties have discovered that it is different enough from what we think that it would cause some serious consternation. My guess is that it will turn the above on its head to the point that the atheists will be forced to admit they are not only not the smartest guys in the Universe, but that they have been seriously stupid to the point that their worldview will be completely and utterly shattered.

Now, before you go off and claim Schuyler is a closet Fundie I will say that's not true. It's just that, ironically, Fundies are closer to the Truth than you want them to be, but that doesn't mean they’re not still full of crap. They still are. And this doesn’t get the Vatican very far, mostly because they've already had 2,000 years to screw things up and they're stuck on this salvation and Trinity thing, which is all quite beside the point.

Now just what if the Laws of Physics as we know them are as relevant as the Classical world of Newtonian Mechanics, but superseded by something even more dramatic? What if these crashed saucers and beings have pointed out that the Other Side, the side where our dead relatives reside, is Reality, and that you can get there through technology, or through advanced mental techniques, and that there is commerce, of a sort, between these realms? What if THAT’S where the answer to FTL travel resides, where String Theory and branes are resolved, and where the purpose of our lives is actually revealed?

What if this is the source of complete and utter POWER that, if it became known well enough to be understood, would kind of, you know, upset the applecart? What if people came to realize that they don’t need no steenking government, that ALL power resides within the individual and that, truth be known, we can create any world we want and make traditional concepts of “wealth” simply obsolete, immaterial, worthless.

It just seems to me that this might be a secret worth keeping by any means necessary.

reply to post by schuyler


Frank: former test subject/proxy op.

Doesn't think much of his ex-bosses. I kind of get the impression they threw him under the bus

reply to post by Eidolon23


I had to read Jaynes for a graduate class at the U of MN taught by a transhumanist promoting microchip implants -- a transhumanist who said his personal mentor was Werner von Braun -- this transhumanist was a military anthropologist. When I exposed in the U of MN Daily newspaper that this graduate school director was promoting Werner von Braun while neglecting to mention he was a Nazi SS major who personally supervised mass slave labor -- the professor emailed me only stating this:

"I will personally make sure you are never published in the MN Daily again."

Now this professor happened to collaborate with Jim Fetzer's JFK assassination conference -- quite a coincidence considering Werner von Braun is implicated in the assassination of JFK and that Jim Fetzer has all his semiotic mind control books published by the Moonie press, Paragon House. Then I discovered that the Moonie Paragon House happened to move its office from NYC to a backwater locale near the U of MN. So I then went to Paragon House because I actually was ordering Ken Wilber's book that the Moonies published....so I thought how often do you get to buy it directly from the publishers! I didn't know Paragon House was the Moonies until I go in and there right at the same desk in the small office was all the literature on display for the Moonies Professor Association front group. I still hadn't put it together until I went back to the University computer library to search the Professor Association to discover it was the Moonies and so logically I suspected Paragon House as also being the Moonies which it was. Now Jim Fetzer who has several conspiracy books published claims he didn't realize the main publisher of his academic books was a Moonie front. Either that is really embarrassing or very telling.

Suffice it to say I emailed Peter Dale Scott about this and he told me that he and several other professors who attended Fetzer's JFK assassination conference had to "disown" Fetzer. Peter Dale Scott, after I told him about the Werner von Braun connection and the email I received, told me to be careful. Fetzer also was in the military.

Anyway I told this long story just to point out that there are strange conspiracy connections and I think the final solution is that these things can't be solved - that the TRUTH is something that is not a word or a vision -- not a deductive solution -- but rather something logically inferred that can not be known symbolically. O.K. so philosophy of science professor Karl Popper got into this with his quantum consciousness model of reality based on Kepler and Schrodinger use of resonance.

Anyway so then Fetzer published a book exposing the plane crash of Senator Wellstone as an assassination using electromagnetic weapon technology which definitely ties into the John Alexander type technology. My take on that is that fascism is a "take the leather glove off the iron fist" mentality - in other words: This is how we did it and we are not hiding it. Now the thing is I can't blame Fetzer nor even his professor collaborator -- both of them directors of the same graduate program just at different campuses of the same huge University of Minnesota. Fetzer soon after left to move to Madison WI, a hot bed of leftist activism where I finished my undergraduate degree. It does make a person wonder if he wants to keep tabs on these things or if he is just some freaked out conspiracy dude. I heard good things about him moderating some debates in the 9/11 conspiracy scene in the Twin Cities Minnesota -- so again I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just saying that it's good to be paranoid. Senator Wellstone was digging into the CIA's "drug" war in Colombia, the largest recipient of U.S. "assistance" in Latin America and the largest human rights violater -- a coincidence? haha.

It's something I directly asked Al Gore when he was Vice President - I said to him - "everyone knows the CIA is complicit in the drug trade." Now Al Gore was tied in with the Stargate Conspiracy via his mentor Claiborne Pell -- I don't know any more details but it fits in with the U.N. Theosophist Masonic mass sacrifice deal with Depleted Uranium and nuclear radiation as "spiritual evolution" that kills off the masses -- according to these wacked out New Agers.

Now on the whole Julian Jaynes deal -- the thing is that Jaynes is very limited in his analysis. The Bushmen culture completely disproves Julian Jaynes -- just look into Dr. Bradford Keeney's work. I realize that anthropology is even skeptical about paranormal powers in nonwestern cultures but there are many anthropologists who have also been initiated and trained in these abilities like Paul Stoller -- even though the likes of I.M. Lewis tries to debunk Stoller, etc. So let's not use Jaynes to dismiss two-thirds of the planet's cultures. Qigong.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong




Cool story, bro.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong


A "military anthropologist"! It boggles the mind, but as an anthro grad myself, I can see it. When I was in school they were running out of "indigenous" cultures to study, or more likely were told to get the hell out. One of my colleagues wrote his Master's Thesis on the alcohol content of American and German beers, perceived vs. reality. He then wrote his PhD dissertation covering the Norwegian fishing fleet in Alaska.

Now drawing a kinship chart for the Aviary would prove mighty interesting! What's their word for second parallel cousin twice removed again?

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
iAnyway I told this long story just to point out that there are strange conspiracy connections and I think the final solution is that these things can't be solved - that the TRUTH is something that is not a word or a vision -- not a deductive solution -- but rather something logically inferred that can not be known symbolically. O.K. so philosophy of science professor Karl Popper got into this with his quantum consciousness model of reality based on Keper and Schrodinger use of resonance.

Here, here fullotus! And I agree with Ms. Eidy: Cool story. And I would further proffer that we--you, Eidolon, schuyler, and moi, have the two particular feathered ones we've been discussing here, penned in the coop of logic, deduction, and evidence. They is surrounded by ideas that, while we differ on some aspects, there's not much room for any brood-hens to wiggle through the chicken wire. I'll break punny like schuyler and say, "Their goose is cooking!"

It's a much more abstract concept, but schuyler seems to asseverate that some folk might yell "SAUCER!" to obfuscate a dimensional world. My spider-sense and the evidence of some of their proclivities attend to agree. I've been mostly silent on that aspect, for reasons yet to be revealed.

I think it's safe to say that the idea of the extradimensional isn't foreign to Eidolon or fullotus either. I'll be corrected if I've assumed.

Of course, schuyler, you know that gives you something in common with Greer right! He, of course, believes they're some kind of extradimensional entities and that mankind possesses innate powers beyond comprehension.

Greer has claimed, if I'm not mistaken, that he was approached by Col. John B. Alexander and somewhat bullied to join the "dark side." Grain of salt and all that, but, hrm.

Anyhoo, schuyler:

I suggest that if this is to have an "Oh, my God!" type of impact that it must be related to Capital R Reality and that certain parties have discovered that it is different enough from what we think that it would cause some serious consternation. My guess is that it will turn the above on its head to the point that the atheists will be forced to admit they are not only not the smartest guys in the Universe, but that they have been seriously stupid to the point that their worldview will be completely and utterly shattered...

...Now just what if the Laws of Physics as we know them are as relevant as the Classical world of Newtonian Mechanics, but superseded by something even more dramatic? What if these crashed saucers and beings have pointed out that the Other Side, the side where our dead relatives reside, is Reality, and that you can get there through technology, or through advanced mental techniques, and that there is commerce, of a sort, between these realms? What if THAT’S where the answer to FTL travel resides, where String Theory and branes are resolved, and where the purpose of our lives is actually revealed?

Then there's that tinge of control issues: Col. Alexander's papers, his ties to the Council on Foreign Relations, and affinity for non-lethal weaponry don't leave much doubt about the world he envisions.

We've seen, as far as that aspect goes, that both Alexander and Green's association with the Harrington group kind o' points to the iron glove schuyler mentioned.

Does a scenario of biblical proportions loom in their minds? May not be so far-fetched.

Frank? He's good for a couple of stars here and there.

reply to post by schuyler




I didn't post this.

Actually the military uses anthropologists all the time now in how the U.S. can better mind control the countries they're invading -- Afghanistan and Iraq. So study the local culture, assimilate them...etc.

He arrived at this point after a fairly unusual background that includes working on high-tech military projects in two military services, obtaining a doctorate in sociology with a strong emphasis in cultural anthropology, and pursuing a long-standing interest in futures studies.

Hmm. So Werner von Braun personally made his career -- definitely makes you wonder what those high-tech military projects were

Bruce Lincoln documented this use of anthropologists by the CIA in Guatemala back in the 1960s.

I think also it was used before WWII in Latin America -- for example to make sure the Germans weren't using the Mexicans to invade the U.S., etc.

You know Latin America -- the U.S. empire based on the Monroe Doctrine, etc. But if you read Noam Chomksy's Political Economy of Human Rights, Vol. 1: Washington Connection and Third World Fascism then things become a little more clear that the CIA practices genocide in Latin America and supports fascist Nazi regimes.

If the guy down the hall seems to be doing something strange, I would say you have an ethical obligation to find out. And, more than that, call in the University and ultimately the FBI if you can’t satisfy yourself that nothing bad is going on. We think a public pronouncement that yes, whistle-blowing is commendable would immediately make terrorist projects riskier.

Check out their "bioshield" -- this ties in with the Nanotech Homeland Security implants to satellite blood chemical defense system planned

f) Radiation. Finally, high-power emitters of fairly penetrating radiation, possibly x-rays or electrons from thermionic emitters, can be used to destroy all large molecularly structured systems within a large volume. Radiation can be tuned to minimize interaction with organic tissue, particularly with key tissues such as the nervous system, but basically this proposal relies on nanomedical systems that can be rapidly deployed to repair nanoscale damage before it brings about larger scale and more complex forms of damage. This proposal may work well with (b), enabling organisms to be sterilized while they enter quarantined compartments. Other methods of sterilization include the use of nanomachines to remove all molecules from an organism’s body that are not pre-characterized as “normal”.

Using radiation to sterilize people after they are "contained" and filled with nanomachines!!!

Originally posted by The GUT
Of course, schuyler, you know that gives you something in common with Greer right!

He, of course, believes they're some kind of extradimensional entities and that mankind possesses innate powers beyond comprehension.

Yeah, I noticed, was appalled at myself, and hoped no one else would! That's very scary all by itself. I'm wondering if that's how one gets inculcated. I've been immersed in Greer these last few weeks trying to read all his stuff in preparation for "a piece." I promise, though: No invisible spaceships. No moths. No owls masquerading as loved ones. Besides, just because he may be right about some things doesn't mean he's not nuts!

But to the purpose. WHY is The Aviary spending so much time and treasure on a on a discredited, if not clinically crazy, fringe group that is a laughingstock to most of the world? There are plenty of other more cohesive fringies that could be used" TM'ers, er, um, Mormons? I dunno.

Originally posted by The GUT
Does a scenario of biblical proportions loom in their minds? May not be so far-fetched.

Ha ha. That's what Greer thinks, too! Got you back!!

Off topic disclosure: Every time I see this thread posted to, I get a mini-panic attack and open it with my finger on the ban button!

Further semi-off topic disclosure: I honestly wish to think all who are participating in this thread. This is hands down the most educational UFO thread I've ever seen on ATS and it's actually sucking me, a non-believer, into the habit of Googling and cross checking facts. Y'all might just talk me into joining the tin foil hat club if you keep it up!



~Heff

Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
reply to post by schuyler

 

I didn't post this.

Oh, sure you did.

And it's an even cooler story. But whose ethical framework are you questioning?