If The God of The Bible is evil (Elohim, Yahweh) why do you still talk to angels like "Michael"?

reply to post by Akragon


Please explain how it does not matter what the Bible says when the topic of our discussion is what the Bible says. Please explain that logic for me Aaron. The commandment in the Decalogue commands men not to commit murder.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

You realize the angel of death takes life correct? Not God.

This is true. But I want to add that the angel of death only appears when that person time has expired. The angel of death can not just kill someone because it feels like it, otherwise we would all be dead.

Correct, every person's life is subject to God's sovereignty. But He Himself doesn't take life, He removes His hedge of protection preserving life. Fallen angels already desire to kill.

Originally posted by TheCaucasianAmerican
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Oh so god is now a wuss and sends other people to do his dirty work?

So if you hire someone to murder someone don't you get charged with the same crime Haha.

Bravo you just made a deep hole for yourself. Need a hand out?

Why would I need a hand out from your straw man? All are guilty before God, He mercy and patience permits our lives to continue after the first time we sin.

Originally posted by arpgme
You see these people who are Wiccan or Pagan claiming to not be Christian and they are still summoning these angels. We also see some New Age people who claim that The God of The Bible wasn't Good and they still summon angels like Michael and the others. If you thought the god was bad, why would you be talking to his angels?

It doesn't make sense...

It doesn't make sense partly because it is not true. Those angels are not a part of the Wiccan pantheon and the only pagan beliefs that include them are ones rooted in Christianity. New Age can mean just about anything so... yeah.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by arpgme

 

Maybe the God of the bible wasn't God in the first place... Just an entity posing as God to men that didn't know any better...

As a Wiccan, I do not "summon" any Spirit. The real story is there were two "Gods," Enil and Enki. The "Angels" were Annunaki messengers sent by one of them. The Annunaki went away, and people have been looking for them to come back ever since. Perhaps they will, and set the story straight, for once and for all.

Originally posted by Cuervo
It doesn't make sense partly because it is not true. Those angels are not a part of the Wiccan pantheon and the only pagan beliefs that include them are ones rooted in Christianity. New Age can mean just about anything so... yeah.

I'm talking about the ones who believe The God of The Bible is evil...

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by arpgme

 

Maybe the God of the bible wasn't God in the first place... Just an entity posing as God to men that didn't know any better...

As a Wiccan, I do not "summon" any Spirit. The real story is there were two "Gods," Enlil and Enki. The "Angels" were Annunaki messengers sent by one of them. The Annunaki went away, and people have been looking for them to come back ever since. Perhaps they will, and set the story straight, for once and for all.

Hopefully not, if Enlil is the same being of the Bible that flooded the world.

I don't talk to angels. I just talk to myself.

...hey, sometimes even I need a little expert advice.

reply to post by autowrench


So what were those "gods", exactly? If you have a scientific explanation for the Annunaki, perhaps you have one for the gods as well?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


How many innocent people were murdered because of false conceptions that were perpetrated by the leaders of their faith?

That "thou shalt not kill" commandment burned to ash long ago, my friend. Survivalism is more important to us as a species than any moral code. Individuals may sacrifice themselves for love or honor, but entire nations will destroy other nations to ensure their own survival.

Morals are an illusion of integrity. When it comes down to it, we have no problem being animals if it protects what we value.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Please explain how it does not matter what the Bible says when the topic of our discussion is what the Bible says. Please explain that logic for me Aaron. The commandment in the Decalogue commands men not to commit murder.

aww you used my name... how endearing

I'd be happy to explain the logic in my statement... Look at the first line in the OP for starters...

If The god of The Bible is evil...

It is my belief that this God we're speaking of is in fact some "entity" posing as the true God...

The act of Murder is defined as premeditated... Killing another person is also premeditated... meaning said person meant to murder/kill...


Now when this God gave this command "thou shall not kill/murder" did he mean don't take a life... or did he actually mean don't take a life unless i tell you to do so?

Well if we refer back to the original quote i used, anyone who works during the sabbath shall be put to death... That is called "MURDER"...

Not only is that a completely ridonkulous reason to be put to death... but if said person is put to death how can he/she repent? Isn't that a tenant of your belief... repentance?

By putting said person to death you remove any chance for repentance... but do you not believe that person should have that chance? Paul was a self proclaimed murderer... yet you say he was forgiven, so why shouldn't a person who works on the sabbath be given that same oppourtunity?

Moses was a murderer...

Joshua was a commander of an army or two... he was also a murderer

So was David... and of course good ol Paul...

All people that murdered in cold blood, and yet they were forgiven right?

So now its your turn... Mr. RJ

Please explain how a person that breaks the sabbath deserves no chance for repentance.... while some of the heros of the bible can kill thousands of people and are free to live on?

reply to post by Akragon

Please explain how a person that breaks the sabbath deserves no chance for repentance.... while some of the heros of the bible can kill thousands of people and are free to live on?

Because "God" said so, that's why.

He never does anything nice without asking for something in return. All of those sins were committed for him, and the results appeased him, so those people were forgiven in his eyes.

The people who worked on sabbath showed an unwillingness to abide by his whims, which displeased him, so he destroyed them. They were given no chance to change their ways. Because he didn't feel like allowing them to.

"God", in the Bible, is a bloodthirsty tyrannical egomaniac. What else did you expect from him? From the moment I first heard that we were supposed to fear our "father", I was suspicious. And in the years since, my suspicions have been confirmed. I will never respect the god of the Bible, because I know the truth. Nothing else makes sense.

"Lean not on your own understanding, and submit to the Lord in all ways..." Sounds like slavery and zombification to me. No freakin' thanks. You know, for something that's so absolute, the "Living Word of God" raises a lot of confusion whenever it's being freely discussed, doesn't it?

That should tell you something right there.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


heh...

See i know better though...

The so called God of the OT is not the same as the Father of Jesus...

I agree this so called "God" is a maniac... Christians claim he is merciful and just, but i see nothing of the sort from this entity... He/she/it does nothing but cause wars, and give commands which he/she/it can't even follow... and routinely tells people to break the commandments he gave.

Then we get the arguement that NuT and Lonewolf are using... that being murder and kill are two different things, which is just wrong...

IF you compare the God of Jesus to the one from the OT you'll find they are nothing alike... they are not the same entity...

The God of the OT is a Fraud, and a failure as a God. Though there is a reason for this....

The book was written by men with agendas... Not God

reply to post by Akragon


If you read The Bible in Hebrew/Aramaic it makes it clear that Jesus worships this "I am" God also (Yahweh). The New Testament also says that God planned Jesus to be killed from the "foundations of the Earth" and he needed this human sacrifice of his own son to forgive people and not throw them into hell.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Akragon

 

If you read The Bible in Hebrew/Aramaic it makes it clear that Jesus worships this "I am" God also (Yahweh). The New Testament also says that God planned Jesus to be killed from the "foundations of the Earth" and he needed this human sacrifice of his own son to forgive people and not throw them into hell.

I prefer to look at it from a different perspective then Christians do...

God does not need a sacrifice to forgive... He forgives those who forgive, and has mercy on those that show mercy... Hell is a myth, and a lie designed to cause fear in the populous, thus giving the religious leaders power over them.

And Jesus came to the physical of his own will to show us how God wants us to live.... NOT as a bloody sacrifice to this maniacal tyrant from the OT.

He was killed because his own followers would not stand up for him... He did not want to die, but it was meant to happen because the jews wanted him dead, and his followers denied him.

This was because he spoke out against this OT God and his "rules" which man made, not the true God... and called himself Gods son which to them and christians equates him to God... which is also wrong.

reply to post by arpgme


My consciousness has changed because who wouldn't think that beings from other worlds are observing us? Maybe in our psyche, maybe in a different world...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
"Lean not on your own understanding, and submit to the Lord in all ways..." Sounds like slavery and zombification to me. No freakin' thanks. You know, for something that's so absolute, the "Living Word of God" raises a lot of confusion whenever it's being freely discussed, doesn't it?

Ok my friend, if you have a better plan for man's salvation, let's hear it.

I am all ears.

If your understanding of life is better and has a way to bring about a world where by all men can live in peace, share it.

The Lord revealed his love plainly for all to see. He gives rain to the wicked and righteous alike. The sun shines on us all. We each have the same starry decked heavens to sleep under. All of his wonders he has revealed to each in equal proportion. By this we know to love one another likewise, and that is our salvation.

So what again is YOUR plan?

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

Galileo Galilei.

Originally posted by TheCaucasianAmerican
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Well my boss and I worked on a Sunday. He's a christian and he's not dead. Hmm in fact we worked a couple Sundays Haha.

Still alive.

Not that it really matters, but Sunday isn't the Sabbath. I'm actually kind of confused as to what you were getting at with this post.

reply to post by Akragon


Murder, (according to the Bible), would be what Moses did to the Egyptian, what David did to Bathsheba's hubby, what the Pharisees did to Jesus etc, "killing" is a different class, included in that group would be deaths in war where they are also trying to kill you, accidental deaths, killing in self-defense et cetera.

That is why I said all murder is killing but not all killing is murder. People all the time try that argument against God, but the command in Hebrew says thou shalt not murder. That has nothing to do with carrying out a death penalty dully arrived at by a conviction under a lawful trial under the law.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So again i ask... How is killing someone for working on the sabbath Not Murder?

Did steven get a Trial?

How about the women and children that were killed because of this so called "Gods" commands... did they recieve a trial?

Did they deserve death?