If The God of The Bible is evil (Elohim, Yahweh) why do you still talk to angels like "Michael"?

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posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
would be what Moses did to the Egyptian,


Moses did nothing to the Egyptians. He let God mete out the punishments.




posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by Nooneimparticular
 


perhaps you might want to read the story again my friend...

Moses killed an egyptian guard because he got fed up with the treatment he was seeing...




posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Nooneimparticular
 


perhaps you might want to read the story again my friend...

Moses killed an egyptian guard because he got fed up with the treatment he was seeing...



This was before God called him into service.



Notice I was talking about the PLURAL Egyptians, not the Egyptian that NUT was referring to.
edit on 24-8-2012 by Nooneimparticular because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by Nooneimparticular
 


The point being... He was a Murderer...

Also you might refer to one of my earlier statements...

The command should have been... Thou shall not murder... Unless i say so... or unless its convienent at the time

edit on 24-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Nooneimparticular
 


The point being... He was a Murderer...

Also you might refer to one of my earlier statements...

The command should have been... Thou shall not murder... Unless i say so... or unless its convienent at the time

edit on 24-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




Have we still not come to understand that God is the giver and taker of life?

No man has power but the power of the life within them given to them by the Lord.

Power is HIS.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Nooneimparticular
 


And when one commits murder... Said person puts himself in the place of God as the "taker of life"

Nice try though



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Nooneimparticular
 


And when one commits murder... Said person puts himself in the place of God as the "taker of life"

Nice try though


And, if he is not, isn't God capable of handling that himself?



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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I think if you believe in the concept of "hell", then you must also believe that God is monstrously unjust and, in fact, evil. The word "hell" or it's concept does not appear a single time in the original Hebrew or Greek texts and is a mistranslation from the word "sheol" which means "the grave" or "the underworld." In Greek mythology, this is where Hades lived, I believe. The whole concept of "hell" is man made and is only used to control and manipulate people as well as generate revenue for churches. Religion is man-made and the modern bibles of today are probably mostly untrue. I just let God guide me from within because too much of "religion" and what is found in today's bibles, you know, the ones with who knows how many mistranslations and has been ripped up and rewritten many times over is mostly untrue or twisted to mean something completely different than what was intended.

Also, killing is not murder. If you get into a car accident, for example, due to a tire blowing out on your car which causes you to hit another car and the driver of that car dies, are you saying that's premeditated and you're now a murderer and should be put on trial as such? If you murder someone, it is premeditated which would mean you would have to intentionally drive into that car with full intent on killing the driver. Simply killing is not always murder.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by Kratos1220
 


I liked the first part of your reply... a star for you


But...


Also, killing is not murder. If you get into a car accident, for example, due to a tire blowing out on your car which causes you to hit another car and the driver of that car dies, are you saying that's premeditated and you're now a murderer and should be put on trial as such? If you murder someone, it is premeditated which would mean you would have to intentionally drive into that car with full intent on killing the driver. Simply killing is not always murder.


The laws that exist now are vastly different then back then...

We have degrees of murder now...


First degree: killing with the intent to kill. Usually requires premeditation. Also includes felony murder - an unplanned murder that occurs during the commission of a felony (example is defendant burglarizes a house and during the burglary kills the homeowner - no premeditation but committed during a felony).

Second degree: killing with the intent to do harm but not the intent to kill. Example - shooting someone in the leg with the intent to wound but not kill, and the victim bleeds to death.

Third degree: killing that resulted from indifference or negligence. Usually there must be a legal duty (parent - child), but can also include crimes like driving drunk and causing a fatal accident.

Fourth degree: felony murder committed by an accomplice. Same as felony murder, but instead of one burglar there are two. Burglar A kills the homeowner and that is first degree murder. Burglar B did not take part in the killing but did take part in the burglary and that is fourth degree


I believe you are confusing "dying" with killing...

Killing another human has intent... Dying as a result of something is not killing...

The commandment given in the bible involves human intent.

Thus Murdering and killing have the same meaning...




posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:33 PM
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The closest thing to calling a fatal car accident "murder" is driving drunk, which I agree with. Here's another one for you and this has actually happened. A little league baseball game where a line drive is hit right back to the pitcher, but it's hit too hard for the pitcher to react and it hits him in the head at about 100mph and that child dies. Is the other child a murderer or are you saying that is simply "dying" and not "killing?" I mean, the batter did kill the pitcher, but there was no intent and was completely accidental. Is that child a murderer?

I'm having trouble seeing this part of your argument from your perspective. Simply "dying", to me, is what you do of old age. Something can kill you prematurely, but that doesn't mean it was intentional or premeditated. Accidents happen and people are killed as a result of accidents every day. I just can't go along with you on the "all killing is murder" because to me, there is a distinct difference between the two. Murder always results in killing, but killing is not always murder. Shooting someone in the leg and they bleed to death is also different because you shot someone, on purpose, with intent to harm and injure. If they bleed to death and die, yeah, you killed them and I suppose it is accidental, but it's a little different from the examples I've brought up because they don't involve intent to harm or injure.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


I'm afraid I must agree with Kratos on this one. The act of ending a life, whether intended or not, is killing. The act of ending a life, WITH intent to do so, is called murder.

The two are very different. Did you murder that squirrel, or did you kill it? Did you intend to run it over with your car?



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Kratos1220
 


That is my point... Killing has an intent to harm another...

Dying as a result of something isn't killing with intent... IF said child dies as a result of an accident in a ball game, there is obviously no intent there.

IF you shoot someone in the leg... You caused harm to that person... there was an intent to cause harm to that person... and thus if said person dies... YOU killed him... and you're a murderer.

As i've said, the commandment issued by this God is based on intention, not accident...

The only reason killing animals is not considered "murder" is because they are thought of as less then we are... humans don't hold the value of an animals life in the same regard as a human.

edit on 24-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Kratos1220
 


That is my point... Killing has an intent to harm another...

Dying as a result of something isn't killing with intent... IF said child dies as a result of an accident in a ball game, there is obviously no intent there.


Right, so then killing can happen even if there is no intent, yes? What if a child runs out into the road and into the path of a car who is going the speed limit, is alert and sober and cannot avoid hitting the child? There's no intent there either, but the driver did kill the child. I suppose you are saying that in such cases, you would say "the child died as a result of the car accident" instead of saying "the driver killed the child?" In the baseball game scenario, the batter still killed the pitcher. There's no getting around that. I would say "the kid was killed by a line drive that hit him in the head" as opposed to "the child died from being hit in the head with a baseball." The baseball didn't hit him in the head by itself, it had help. I guess this just comes down to our definitions of "killing" being different. If "kill" and "murder" were the same thing, what reason is there to have two different words if they both mean the same thing?



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by Kratos1220
 


I think we agree here, it really comes down to that persons definition of the word...

So lets get back to the biblical term... Thou shall not kill...

Its been brought up that the original translation is "Thou shall not murder"...

Now... Its been established that "murder" is killing another person with intent... So heres the scenario

Its 100BC... The day of the Sabbath... or "day of rest"... A farmer in the community is behind on tending and gathering his crops... so he sets out to his field to catch up on his "work"... Some religious nutjob comes along and notices hes working on the sabbath... Goes to the authorities... They have him arrested, convicted and stoned to death for working on the sabbath...

Is this Murder? There is obviously Intent here...

Who is the Murderer?

The accuser? The executioner? The Judges?

All of the above?

edit on 24-8-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


It doesn't matter what you believe, that's subjective. It matters what is true. [snip]


Seriously, take your own advice.




posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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Heh, don't ask me, lots of stuff in the Bible doesn't make sense which is why I say I don't believe much if any of it is even true anymore. Many things in the OT seem to directly contradict other things such as what you've brought up here, but I suppose it implies that, since God lived amongst the people in the OT and had direct communication with them, that if God gives you an order, his command supercedes the commandments? Thou shall not murder I think is basically saying humans have no right to decide another human's fate or death, but saying "God told me to do it" in this day and age is different because God does not live amongst us anymore. I mean, they are his commandments, so I guess if you make the rules, you can also make the exceptions? *shrugs* I don't know, but all that seems to go against a loving and caring God. How much of today's bibles are just scare tactics? We may never know. I had my own personal experience with God which turned me from being an athiest for many years, so in my mind, there is no doubt he exists. It is the word of man that I don't trust and is why I don't associate with organized religion and try to figure things out on my own with God's guidance. I don't even go to church.


Anyways, I must go now, so we will finish this later.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 





If The God of The Bible is evil (Elohim, Yahweh) why do you still talk to angels like "Michael"?


Because...

Ugh...

Bubba? Can we just straighten out the 'who' part? I just want to be really clear before we proceed on whom it is that you are suggesting thinks that the God of The Bible is evil. Totally not trying to be a weenie, I just want to respond and would like to do so without stepping on unnecessary landmines.

You mentioned the Wiccans. Do you mean, like, the Gerald Gardner, post 1950's Wicca people? Or how about the neo-paganists that have moved on to 'traditional withcraft'?

Those people?

Thanks.

X.

edit on 24-8-2012 by Xoanon because:




posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 07:30 PM
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EDIT: nevermind, point ha already been made.....
edit on 24-8-2012 by Maroboduus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by Nooneimparticular

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
would be what Moses did to the Egyptian,


Moses did nothing to the Egyptians. He let God mete out the punishments.


Huh? Moses murdered an Egyptian who was beating a Hebrew slave. That's why he fled from Egypt and went to Midyan for 40 years. Moses was a murderer. He wasn't called by God to go back to Egypt with Aaron until he was in his 80's.



posted on Aug, 24 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Nooneimparticular

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Nooneimparticular
 


perhaps you might want to read the story again my friend...

Moses killed an egyptian guard because he got fed up with the treatment he was seeing...



This was before God called him into service.



Notice I was talking about the PLURAL Egyptians, not the Egyptian that NUT was referring to.
edit on 24-8-2012 by Nooneimparticular because: (no reason given)


So what was your point in trying to correct me?





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