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Are these Chemtrails?

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posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by totallackey
 


Really who cares what they're doing it for, they're obviously avoiding making it public so maybe it has to do with geoengineering but only the ones involved can REALLY say and they aren't offering to share.




posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Opportunia
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I am the PERSON who said it yes. and THANK you to all who are trying to prove me wrong but... MOST of the images you show...have planes IN THEM so they don't convince me that they have been just hanging in the sky for 45 minutes to an hour.


Why on earth is the presence of planes on the ground at all relevant to the length of time contrails have been in the air??



Many of the images have planes IN THE air not on the ground. None of these are proof that they are contrails or that they're NOT chemtrails, since we know the technology to use aerosols and dump them from planes has existed for ever since we learned about seeding clouds and dusting crops. Why is it so hard for intelligent people to simply see that chemtrails are a reality. I'm not getting all freaked out and shuddering in a corner about it, but I'm not denying they exist to give myself a false sense of security either.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by Opportunia
 


Ok, I can see from your last replies that you seem to quite a logical person, so forgive me for asking the following but I am genuinely interested in what you have to say.

What is the reason that you believe chemtrails are real, what evidence has convinced you? I hope it doesn't also sound flippant to ask but is it not possible, to you, that nobody is making chemtrails public knowledge because nobody is actually doing it?



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 05:57 AM
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Given what you said in your previous reply about you opinion of photos of contrails then you surely realise that your request for such photographic evidence was unfair. Why ask for evidence that you have already decided you will just dismiss out of hand?

Btw, photos of the Battle of Britain, taken from the ground show exactly what you have asked for, albeit in swirls, not grids. There would be no reasons for grids back then, or even in the fifties, as air traffic was far less frequent than now, and of course in ww2 there were no scheduled services crossing paths at all.


Originally posted by Opportunia
reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 


Great images of planes showing REAL contrails however, those aren't taken a half hour after the planes fly over. Show me a picture of an air show or any airport from back then with checkerboard skies that last for over an hour AFTER the planes are long gone. YOU STILL CAN'T. All the contrails on the planet will NEVER look the same nor behave the same as a Chemtrail because they AREN'T the same thing. BOTH exist, get over it.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by Opportunia
 





Why is it so hard for intelligent people to simply see that chemtrails are a reality.


And why is it so hard for intelligent people to actually show the proof of their reality?

And by that I mean show the proof that there are planes loading these chemicals,show where they are being flown from,and show an actual plane that has the equipment to do such spraying.

And when that happens then you can say chemtrails are a reality,because until then they are far from a reality.



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 06:13 AM
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reply to post by waynos
 


I think this sums up chemtrail believers in one short clip...




I wonder why they can't show a picture or video of a single plane that is being loaded with these chemicals and where they fly in and out of.

My goodness after almost twenty years of this so called spraying not one ounce of this evidence has ever shown up, yet they still try to say there is proof.

Amazing isn't it....
edit on 26-8-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 06:23 AM
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I would be very grateful if someone who believes in chemtrails could tell me where these aircraft are based. In other words where are they flying from? Also who is crewing them?



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by Opportunia
reply to post by totallackey
 


Really who cares what they're doing it for, they're obviously avoiding making it public so maybe it has to do with geoengineering but only the ones involved can REALLY say and they aren't offering to share.


Obviously, they are NOT avoiding making it public...YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC!!! And according to what you are writing, YOU KNOW it is being done...The thing is YOU WROTE it is being done to stave off global warming. Now, little JImmy, A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, ALSO KNOWS it is being done, yet his knowledge tells him to write it is being done to cause drought...Johnny, A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, ALSO KNOWS it is being done, yet his knowledge tells him it is being done to cause rain...And Jane, PERHAPS THE MOST ATTRACTIVE MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, ALSO KNOWS it is being done, yet she writes it is poison design to kill us.

So, a couple of things need to be repeated...



Really who cares what they're doing it for...


YOU DO!!! And now for the kicker!!! And I am going to write for all of us (Uncinus, Gaul, surfer, waynos, Phage, etc.), WE CARE TOO!!! If you presented an ounce of factual evidence that chemtrails were real and that additional material was being injected into the exhaust system of commercial, cargo, and/or military flights, we would be right on board and demanding some sort of action at a high level.



but only the ones involved can REALLY say and they aren't offering to share.


Somebody offered to share something at some point. So far, it has been bupkus, zilch, nada, in regard to chemtrails... The pictures on the OP are CONTRAILS! I do not like seeing the results of exhaust painting my sky either; however, I know the results of ALL ENGINE EXHAUST is not good for my health. The bigger the engine, the bigger the trail of exhaust. And airline engines are some of the biggest around...



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by totallackey
 


And for me your last paragraph is the real point, as I've said many times before. The effect of exhaust gases on our environment is a real concern and the largest of today's engines are truly huge. The cowling for a Rolls Royce Trent 1000 is bigger in diameter than the FUSELAGE of a Boeing 737, variants of which can seat nearly 200 passengers! The greater the efficiency of these engines the better it is for the environment, but there still needs to be concerns over whatever the detrimental effects really are. But this argument applies equally to all types of combustion based power including road traffic, ships, factories and power stations etc.

The current generation of jet engines for airliners are the leanest and most efficient we have ever had, fuel prices and airline profitability demand no less, and a side effect of this efficiency is long visible white trails in the sky that can persist and spread. We need to be aware of what the negative side effects of hese may be and so study of hem is important.

That's why I find the whole red herring conspiracy theory of a deliberately targeted Chemtrail spraying operation sinister and insidious. One might even consider that the airlines themselves might even be behind it because they don't want anyone investigating contrail side effects and their interests are served by making anyone looking into contrails sound like a paranoid idiot that no-one will listen to.

Stupid idea? No more stupid than Chemtrail theory itself and so, believers, REALLY ask yourselves, why do you believe? Where did you get your information from and how deeply have you looked into the counter argument? Someone may be manipulating you. But how do you know who?



posted on Aug, 26 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Opportunia

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Opportunia
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I am the PERSON who said it yes. and THANK you to all who are trying to prove me wrong but... MOST of the images you show...have planes IN THEM so they don't convince me that they have been just hanging in the sky for 45 minutes to an hour.


Why on earth is the presence of planes on the ground at all relevant to the length of time contrails have been in the air??



Many of the images have planes IN THE air not on the ground.


Indeed - but 1 in particular had planes on the ground and what looked like very old contrails in the air (since they had spread out so much) - here it is again:




None of these are proof that they are contrails or that they're NOT chemtrails,


They look like contrails and they behave like contrails - what "proof" do you have that they are anything other than contrails?


since we know the technology to use aerosols and dump them from planes has existed for ever since we learned about seeding clouds and dusting crops.


You do not seed clouds or dust crops at 30,000 feet.


Why is it so hard for intelligent people to simply see that chemtrails are a reality. I'm not getting all freaked out and shuddering in a corner about it, but I'm not denying they exist to give myself a false sense of security either.


Are you saying that cloud seeding and crop dusting are chemtrails?? Because them, and firebombing, insect spraying, etc certainly do exist - but they do not look like contrails and are not done from airliners at 30,000 feet



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by Opportunia
 


Ok, I can see from your last replies that you seem to quite a logical person, so forgive me for asking the following but I am genuinely interested in what you have to say.

What is the reason that you believe chemtrails are real, what evidence has convinced you? I hope it doesn't also sound flippant to ask but is it not possible, to you, that nobody is making chemtrails public knowledge because nobody is actually doing it?


Thank you for your query.

Firstly, I will say yes, it is possible that no one is making them public knowledge simply because no one IS actually doing it. However the other side of that coin is also TRUE, there are many things that happen around us we have no idea are occurring. Just because we can't see it or hear it doesn't mean it ISN'T happening.

To answer your second question, why do I think they are real, even contrails will contain chemicals, They are exhaust and contain many things besides simple water vapor and it is known that aerosol geoengineering projects do exist. They have their own websites. I've googled looking for valid projects. I have no idea what ALL of their projects entail but they do exist. I believe this because wiki sites like THIS one exist:en.wikipedia.org...(geoengineering)

The world has been doing aerosol geoengineering for quite a while now, it is NOT new science. This is why I believe they exist. If you truly want to know all you have to do is read. Here is another article posted from 2008. Scientists all over the world were working on solutions and many were desperate to come up with anything that could help. en.wikipedia.org...(geoengineering)

Either way I look at it, to me, chemtrails are a reality. Either as part of a contrail or aerosol geoengineering project chemtrails DO exist.
edit on 27-8-2012 by Opportunia because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-8-2012 by Opportunia because: needed a comma after firstly




posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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It's impossible for us to tell by just looking at pictures.

We need to see how LONG the trails last for because contrails only last a couple of minutes while chemtrails last much longer.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by newsaddict
It's impossible for us to tell by just looking at pictures.

We need to see how LONG the trails last for because contrails only last a couple of minutes while chemtrails last much longer.


Oh ... so ... wrong.

Why do chemtrail believers continue to promote this train of thought? Time and time again it has been proven wrong, yet the thought sticks around like a weed.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by Opportunia
 


I have absolutely no argument with your point that strange things happen in the world without our knowledge or approval, this has been proven to be so time and again.vI do have a disconnect with the leap however that this means chemtrails are real. Why chemtrails specifically, as opposed to mind controlling chemicals in our water supply or cancer inducing beer additives or any number of other things for which no evidence exists either?

Chemtrail fears stem entirely from seeing airliner contrails and failing to understand them, and it has gotten twisted all over the place in the subsequent years, but that WAS the root. Look at Newsaddict's post above for a prime example of this.

While contrails do contain chemicals within them, this is an unavoidable byproduct of the combustion process, as it is with all engine exhausts (and I think we share a concern there) but is very different from "chemtrails" which are a concoction supposedly carried in order to be deliberately sprayed on the populace, according to those seeking to expose it.

Do people really think any government on earth is efficient enough to conduct a global spraying operation of the general public for two decades and ensure that no solid evidence of it should emerge at all? Impossible, look at the scandals here in the uk where data sticks concerning sensitive information have been left on trains or chucked in skips, the upper class twit is not a purely British breed either, we all have them in our respective corridors of power and to think otherwise would be naive in the extreme.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by flyswatter
 





Why do chemtrail believers continue to promote this train of thought? Time and time again it has been proven wrong, yet the thought sticks around like a weed.


Now if I remember correctly there was a post that said contrails were the long trails and the chemtrails were the shorter ones. I will see if I can find it,but if someone else remembers this please feel freee to post it.

Well if they can't actually show proof the next best thing is to regurgitate old information that has been said many times before,

What can you do?



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
Now if I remember correctly there was a post that said contrails were the long trails and the chemtrails were the shorter ones. I will see if I can find it,but if someone else remembers this please feel freee to post it.


That was probably me, kinda. If you do the math (optical density is the key) there's no way that the long spreading trails could be some kind of powder. It would weigh too much. The only thing it could be would be a contrail, as 99.99% of the mass of the contrails comes from ambient humidity.

So if "chemtrails" DID exist, then would be short and/or quickly dissipate.
edit on 27-8-2012 by Uncinus because: typo



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by Opportunia
 


...

Chemtrail fears stem entirely from seeing airliner contrails and failing to understand them, and it has gotten twisted all over the place in the subsequent years, but that WAS the root...

While contrails do contain chemicals within them, this is an unavoidable byproduct of the combustion process, as it is with all engine exhausts (and I think we share a concern there) but is very different from "chemtrails" which are a concoction supposedly carried in order to be deliberately sprayed on the populace, according to those seeking to expose it.

Do people really think any government on earth is efficient enough to conduct a global spraying operation of the general public for two decades and ensure that no solid evidence of it should emerge at all?...




Firstly let me say, I was AFRAID when I first learned about the aerosol engineering projects and that they DO in fact exist, whether you wish to believe it or not after I gave you sites with VALID links to some resource information on them. However, after reading all this rhetoric about whether they exist or not and proving it ...to me is now all a bunch of noise which is only taking our minds off the more important things. I do not FEAR the so called chem trails. FEARing them is...fruitless.

Anything in the sky that didn't exist there and instead was put there by HUMAN or any NON natural means IS a CHEMTRAIL get over it. It's about time we start simply discussing what's in the different crap we disperse in the sky whether by means of exhaust from our polluting vehicles or by means of dropping things from containers into the air, they are ALL chemical things WE PUT THERE. They are NOT natural they are CHEM TRAILS, all of them.

Yes I do believe that if they felt it would SAVE THE PLANET from vaporizing our atmosphere by using aerosols over areas with high concentrations of certain gasses, yes I believe they would and as for dumping it on people, that is just an unavoidable situation but I imagine the people making these decisions feel that saving the planet is pretty important and is their highest priority. My feeling is that the spraying isn't to hurt the people therefore I am not FEARING them. I do not LIKE them as I feel they contain things we shouldn't be ingesting, but if the planet's atmosphere gives up on us...where will that leave the population of the planet? What if it was YOUR choice to make?



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Opportunia
Anything in the sky that didn't exist there and instead was put there by HUMAN or any NON natural means IS a CHEMTRAIL get over it. It's about time we start simply discussing what's in the different crap we disperse in the sky whether by means of exhaust from our polluting vehicles or by means of dropping things from containers into the air, they are ALL chemical things WE PUT THERE. They are NOT natural they are CHEM TRAILS, all of them.


But chemtrails are (in theory) something other than contrails, right? So are you saying that chemtrails don't really exist, and we should just be discussing contrails, and jet exhaust? Because there is plenty of discussion about that.



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 


I remember that now,but I still think a chemtrail believer agreed with you, but again I could be wrong, again...

Long day....



posted on Aug, 27 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by Opportunia
 



Firstly let me say, I was AFRAID when I first learned about the aerosol engineering projects and that they DO in fact exist, whether you wish to believe it or not after I gave you sites with VALID links to some resource information on them.


I dont doubt these projects are real, my apologies if I gave you that impression, I typed something to that effect but its clearly not in my post now. I don't know what happened there.

The actual links you provided don't link to anything specific, but a wider wiki search does reveal lots of information. However it is all theoretical and speculative, as well as well known, nothing 'secretive' or that point to a spraying operation occurring since the 1990's, unless I missed it? Have you anything that demonstrates this has been taken further, or do you just feel that it must have?


Anything in the sky that didn't exist there and instead was put there by HUMAN or any NON natural means IS a CHEMTRAIL get over it.


Well this is clearly untrue and you telling me to 'get over it' wont change that. This sort of argument actually only appeared on here after all the preceding supposed evidence had been exposed as faked and was no more than an exercise in straw-grasping to widen the definition and muddy the waters, as you are now doing.


The chemtrail conspiracy theory holds that some trails left by aircraft are actually chemical or biological agents deliberately sprayed at high altitudes for purposes undisclosed to the general public in clandestine programs directed by government officials.[1]


en.wikipedia.org...

So quite clearly NOT anything at all in the sky put there by non natural means, which is a rather vague description anyway.


Yes I do believe that if they felt it would SAVE THE PLANET from vaporizing our atmosphere by using aerosols over areas with high concentrations of certain gasses, yes I believe they would and as for dumping it on people, that is just an unavoidable situation but I imagine the people making these decisions feel that saving the planet is pretty important and is their highest priority. My feeling is that the spraying isn't to hurt the people therefore I am not FEARING them. I do not LIKE them as I feel they contain things we shouldn't be ingesting, but if the planet's atmosphere gives up on us...where will that leave the population of the planet? What if it was YOUR choice to make?


If it was my choice there would be a PUBLIC debate and consultation and the decision would be made transparently. However all the evidence, which is publicly available points to that decision having not been taken by anyone, yet.

edit on 27-8-2012 by waynos because: fixing quote tags






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