Missouri ‘Right To Pray’ Amendment Will Allow Creationists To Refuse To Study Evolution

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posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 





Thats weird, you talk about evolution as though is a proven fact or something.


That's because it is a FACT. We are actively applying the theory in modern medicine!

And no, your magic isn't a rational substitute




posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by itsthetooth
 





Thats weird, you talk about evolution as though is a proven fact or something.


That's because it is a FACT. We are actively applying the theory in modern medicine!

And no, your magic isn't a rational substitute


Correct micro-evolution is prooven fact and is used in modern medicine to adapt organisms in order to utilize positive changes.

Chimpanzees have become adaptive chimpazees by adaptaion and micro-evolution over time, but they have never macro-evolved into human beings. The issue with the Theory of Evolution is the logical jump made in assuming enough adaptation must lead to speciation, this has never been observed, in nature or in labs (unless WE CREATE IT ourselves through artificial genetic manipulation), which is why it is still a Theory and not a Law.

We are creator beings too.

Yes, it is the most likely scientific explination for life on Earth and as such it is thought of a fact by science, and taught in schools (as it should), but it is not fact; the only part proovable and repeatable is adaptation/micro-evolution, which is fact.

God Bless,



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs
Let them do what they want, as long it does not infringe upon you, your family or your friends.

Ignorance is bliss, it keeps them happy


But if brainwashed kids pray in schools it exposes other kids to such brainwashing. As an atheist I wouldn't want my young and impressionable children exposed to such crap until they are mature enough to make up their own minds on this topic.


What do you suggest? Want to segregate the schools again? I think it would be part of your job as a parent to prepare your child for these eventualities. They will always run into people with differing opinions and beliefs, why not preparing them early?


Why not keep religion in the temples and out of the schools? Jeez, school is about learning enough to get a job and to support yourself in THIS world. And if evolution is such a problem, well then get rid of that too. There's plenty of science to be learned without having to study how we came from monkeys.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by itsthetooth
 





Thats weird, you talk about evolution as though is a proven fact or something.


That's because it is a FACT. We are actively applying the theory in modern medicine!

And no, your magic isn't a rational substitute


And neither of these subjects will get anyone a job even at a car wash. Get rid of these school classes.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

In time, i believe it will no longer be practical or possible to remain ignorant, and these fanatical beliefs will eventually fade into obscurity.
edit on 12-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)


No, no, no. Try this scenario out: You're a teenager and your father tells you to mow the lawn. In the garage you have a push mover and a rider mower. Which one are you going to use? The rider mower, of course. Why? Because teens will always go for what's easier.

What's easier here: Complex science or learning one simple phrase of 'God did it'?

This is why religion will never die.


Give this generation of kids some more credit please. Not all children are inheritably lazy. That is a wide sweeping assumption, i for one know lots of the new generation of kids and they are much more intelligent and street smart then you seem to believe.


Sadly, I'm not wrong when it comes to kids and religion: www.msnbc.msn.com...
edit on 8/15/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by MDDoxs
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I agree that it is a problem and you are right in that it will eventually effect others. However, you would be infringing on their right to practice their belief, regardless of how crazy it may seem.

I would like everyone to deny ignorance and educate themselves, it will better society. However, if you take away their right to practice their faith, you undermine the fundamentals that make democratic nations prosperous.

In time, i believe it will no longer be practical or possible to remain ignorant, and these fanatical beliefs will eventually fade into obscurity.
edit on 12-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)


But no one is taking away their right to practice their faith, that's the thing.

Otherwise, i generally agree with you.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

In time, i believe it will no longer be practical or possible to remain ignorant, and these fanatical beliefs will eventually fade into obscurity.
edit on 12-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)


No, no, no. Try this scenario out: You're a teenager and your father tells you to mow the lawn. In the garage you have a push mover and a rider mower. Which one are you going to use? The rider mower, of course. Why? Because teens will always go for what's easier.

What's easier here: Complex science or learning one simple phrase of 'God did it'?



This is why religion will never die.


Give this generation of kids some more credit please. Not all children are inheritably lazy. That is a wide sweeping assumption, i for one know lots of the new generation of kids and they are much more intelligent and street smart then you seem to believe.


Sadly, I'm not wrong when it comes to kids and religion: www.msnbc.msn.com...
edit on 8/15/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Your source



Though the phone survey depicted broad affinity with religion, the face-to-face interviews found that many teens’ religious knowledge was “meager, nebulous and often fallacious” and engagement with the substance of their traditions remarkably shallow. Most seemed hard put to express coherently their beliefs and what difference they make.


Your article outlines that US teenagers have difficulty expressing their current religious beliefs in a coherent form, as do most people. I myself, do not identify with any particular religion, even though raised catholic, I can not exactly describe what faith i have or what i believe is out there.

Your original point was kids are to lazy and therefore they will accept religion into their lives. If you want your kids holding no form of belief, then inform them better. The end of the day the onus falls on you. If your kids go to school and develop some kind of faith your not able to "exorcise"
then perhaps you have not properly prepared them.

Please dont get me wrong, I would tend to side with you, but your focused on the wrong areas.
edit on 15-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)


Edit: Stars for your post, for continuing a proper discussion.
edit on 15-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs
Let them do what they want, as long it does not infringe upon you, your family or your friends.

Ignorance is bliss, it keeps them happy


But if brainwashed kids pray in schools it exposes other kids to such brainwashing. As an atheist I wouldn't want my young and impressionable children exposed to such crap until they are mature enough to make up their own minds on this topic.


What do you suggest? Want to segregate the schools again? I think it would be part of your job as a parent to prepare your child for these eventualities. They will always run into people with differing opinions and beliefs, why not preparing them early?


Why not keep religion in the temples and out of the schools? Jeez, school is about learning enough to get a job and to support yourself in THIS world. And if evolution is such a problem, well then get rid of that too. There's plenty of science to be learned without having to study how we came from monkeys.


Will not disagree with you here. But you do have a chose on were your kids attend. Perhaps the schools need to better cater to the needs of each of their students. I dont have the answers, but you cant demand something be removed from a public institution that you, or i, do not agree with.

Only option i see for those who find religion in schools a major problem, invest in a private school for your kids....

Edit: Stars for your post, for continuing a proper discussion.
edit on 15-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by MDDoxs

Will not disagree with you here. But you do have a chose on were your kids attend. Perhaps the schools need to better cater to the needs of each of their students. I dont have the answers, but you cant demand something be removed from a public institution that you, or i, do not agree with.

Only option i see for those who find religion in schools a major problem, invest in a private school for your kids....


If you want to teach your religion then what is wrong with the old idea of "sunday school"????
edit on 15-8-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by itsthetooth
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


At any rate, one thing is for sure, evoltuion has been given the name to something when change is detected. They have never been able to identify whats making the change,


Evolution 101 - mechanisms for evolution


just that it happens so it must be evolution. As you can tell I'm not to fond of the pseudo science that has taken place about it.


I can tell you do not know what you are talking about.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

In time, i believe it will no longer be practical or possible to remain ignorant, and these fanatical beliefs will eventually fade into obscurity.
edit on 12-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)


No, no, no. Try this scenario out: You're a teenager and your father tells you to mow the lawn. In the garage you have a push mover and a rider mower. Which one are you going to use? The rider mower, of course. Why? Because teens will always go for what's easier.

What's easier here: Complex science or learning one simple phrase of 'God did it'?



This is why religion will never die.


Give this generation of kids some more credit please. Not all children are inheritably lazy. That is a wide sweeping assumption, i for one know lots of the new generation of kids and they are much more intelligent and street smart then you seem to believe.


Sadly, I'm not wrong when it comes to kids and religion: www.msnbc.msn.com...
edit on 8/15/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Your source



Though the phone survey depicted broad affinity with religion, the face-to-face interviews found that many teens’ religious knowledge was “meager, nebulous and often fallacious” and engagement with the substance of their traditions remarkably shallow. Most seemed hard put to express coherently their beliefs and what difference they make.


Your article outlines that US teenagers have difficulty expressing their current religious beliefs in a coherent form, as do most people. I myself, do not identify with any particular religion, even though raised catholic, I can not exactly describe what faith i have or what i believe is out there.

Your original point was kids are to lazy and therefore they will accept religion into their lives. If you want your kids holding no form of belief, then inform them better. The end of the day the onus falls on you. If your kids go to school and develop some kind of faith your not able to "exorcise"
then perhaps you have not properly prepared them.

Please dont get me wrong, I would tend to side with you, but your focused on the wrong areas.
edit on 15-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)




My focus was on the fact that it's easier for kids to say, God did it, rather than spend years and years of scientific study. Everything you've pointed out here only substantiates that fact.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 12:19 AM
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So much hate for the Lord and His Word! Just as prophesied.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by jeramie
So much hate for the Lord and His Word! Just as prophesied.


How is pointing out that those fundamentalist creationists are provably wrong "hateful"? Since when is stating facts considered hateful?



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

In time, i believe it will no longer be practical or possible to remain ignorant, and these fanatical beliefs will eventually fade into obscurity.
edit on 12-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)


No, no, no. Try this scenario out: You're a teenager and your father tells you to mow the lawn. In the garage you have a push mover and a rider mower. Which one are you going to use? The rider mower, of course. Why? Because teens will always go for what's easier.

What's easier here: Complex science or learning one simple phrase of 'God did it'?

This is why religion will never die.


Give this generation of kids some more credit please. Not all children are inheritably lazy. That is a wide sweeping assumption, i for one know lots of the new generation of kids and they are much more intelligent and street smart then you seem to believe.


Sadly, I'm not wrong when it comes to kids and religion: www.msnbc.msn.com...
edit on 8/15/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Here is a thread with article to counter your own www.abovetopsecret.com...

Poll determines atheism on the rise. I concede that this poll does not specifically target youth, but it does argue against the point that the new generation is lazy and would rather adopt some form of religious belief.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

In time, i believe it will no longer be practical or possible to remain ignorant, and these fanatical beliefs will eventually fade into obscurity.
edit on 12-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)


No, no, no. Try this scenario out: You're a teenager and your father tells you to mow the lawn. In the garage you have a push mover and a rider mower. Which one are you going to use? The rider mower, of course. Why? Because teens will always go for what's easier.

What's easier here: Complex science or learning one simple phrase of 'God did it'?



This is why religion will never die.


Give this generation of kids some more credit please. Not all children are inheritably lazy. That is a wide sweeping assumption, i for one know lots of the new generation of kids and they are much more intelligent and street smart then you seem to believe.


Sadly, I'm not wrong when it comes to kids and religion: www.msnbc.msn.com...
edit on 8/15/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Your source



Though the phone survey depicted broad affinity with religion, the face-to-face interviews found that many teens’ religious knowledge was “meager, nebulous and often fallacious” and engagement with the substance of their traditions remarkably shallow. Most seemed hard put to express coherently their beliefs and what difference they make.


Your article outlines that US teenagers have difficulty expressing their current religious beliefs in a coherent form, as do most people. I myself, do not identify with any particular religion, even though raised catholic, I can not exactly describe what faith i have or what i believe is out there.

Your original point was kids are to lazy and therefore they will accept religion into their lives. If you want your kids holding no form of belief, then inform them better. The end of the day the onus falls on you. If your kids go to school and develop some kind of faith your not able to "exorcise"
then perhaps you have not properly prepared them.

Please dont get me wrong, I would tend to side with you, but your focused on the wrong areas.
edit on 15-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)




My focus was on the fact that it's easier for kids to say, God did it, rather than spend years and years of scientific study. Everything you've pointed out here only substantiates that fact.


The article you provided does not support this claim.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 10:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by MDDoxs

In time, i believe it will no longer be practical or possible to remain ignorant, and these fanatical beliefs will eventually fade into obscurity.
edit on 12-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)


No, no, no. Try this scenario out: You're a teenager and your father tells you to mow the lawn. In the garage you have a push mover and a rider mower. Which one are you going to use? The rider mower, of course. Why? Because teens will always go for what's easier.

What's easier here: Complex science or learning one simple phrase of 'God did it'?



This is why religion will never die.


Give this generation of kids some more credit please. Not all children are inheritably lazy. That is a wide sweeping assumption, i for one know lots of the new generation of kids and they are much more intelligent and street smart then you seem to believe.


Sadly, I'm not wrong when it comes to kids and religion: www.msnbc.msn.com...
edit on 8/15/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


Your source



Though the phone survey depicted broad affinity with religion, the face-to-face interviews found that many teens’ religious knowledge was “meager, nebulous and often fallacious” and engagement with the substance of their traditions remarkably shallow. Most seemed hard put to express coherently their beliefs and what difference they make.


Your article outlines that US teenagers have difficulty expressing their current religious beliefs in a coherent form, as do most people. I myself, do not identify with any particular religion, even though raised catholic, I can not exactly describe what faith i have or what i believe is out there.

Your original point was kids are to lazy and therefore they will accept religion into their lives. If you want your kids holding no form of belief, then inform them better. The end of the day the onus falls on you. If your kids go to school and develop some kind of faith your not able to "exorcise"
then perhaps you have not properly prepared them.

Please dont get me wrong, I would tend to side with you, but your focused on the wrong areas.
edit on 15-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)




My focus was on the fact that it's easier for kids to say, God did it, rather than spend years and years of scientific study. Everything you've pointed out here only substantiates that fact.


The article you provided does not support this claim.



What are you talking about? It says it right here:

The majority of American teens believe in God and worship in conventional congregations, but their religious knowledge is remarkably shallow

The kids know nothing about their religion, but believe in it anyway.



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by jiggerj
 


It does not mean they are substituting the study of science with religion…your drawing unfounded conclusions ..Your argument is falling apart here.
edit on 16-8-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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This isn't the first time fundamentalists are trying to prevent people from seeing facts...



Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills ...


Against "critical thinking"...says it all really. All they want is obedient blind sheep.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html]LINK[/url ]

And more:



Here are a few more detailed stats...they're pretty sad imo:




posted on Aug, 16 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Macroevolutioin has been proven as well…and is a FACT.


A wiki article explaining the educated guesses based on the evolutionary model is not proof, it is the most likely educated guess, based on the presupposition that macro-evolution is fact.

Each piece of presented evidence is done so with the caviot that the previous suppositions were true. A gret example is this part:

From Wiki
"Allopatric Speciation

During allopatric (from the ancient Greek allos, "other" + Greek patrā, "fatherland") speciation, a population splits into two geographically isolated populations (for example, by habitat fragmentation due to geographical change such as mountain building). The isolated populations then undergo genotypic and/or phenotypic divergence as: (a) they become subjected to dissimilar selective pressures; (b) they independently undergo genetic drift; (c) different mutations arise in the two populations. When the populations come back into contact, they have evolved such that they are reproductively isolated and are no longer capable of exchanging genes.

Observed instances

Island genetics, the tendency of small, isolated genetic pools to produce unusual traits, has been observed in many circumstances, including insular dwarfism and the radical changes among certain famous island chains, for example on Komodo. The Galápagos islands are particularly famous for their influence on Charles Darwin. During his five weeks there he heard that Galápagos tortoises could be identified by island, and noticed that Finches differed from one island to another, but it was only nine months later that he reflected that such facts could show that species were changeable. When he returned to England, his speculation on evolution deepened after experts informed him that these were separate species, not just varieties, and famously that other differing Galápagos birds were all species of finches. Though the finches were less important for Darwin, more recent research has shown the birds now known as Darwin's finches to be a classic case of adaptive evolutionary radiation
"

Here we have a scientist observe species adaptation and micro-evolution/adaptation (in this case Darwin). Then he goes back to England to share his observances and another group of scientists speculate they are in fact different species entirely. This causes Darwin to apply this speculation as fact and project this educated guess into his evolutionary model (or what would become the evolutionary model by his successors). But macro-evolution has never been observed, and is not repeatable, therefore it can never be scientific law, only the most likely scientific explination (requiring physical evidence) for the diversity of life on Earth, only the different biodiverisy arays have been observed and then being run through the evolutionary model (created from assumptions) assumed to be the observance of macro-evolution.

Read the last line, one of the models pre-supposed facts (Allopatric Speciation), turned out to be simple micro-evolution/adaptation that was incorrectly assumed to be macro-evolution by British scientists in Darwins day.

What you and the OP sent me as "proof" is observations which are assumed to be attibuted to macro-evolution but which has never been observed or repeated by any scientist ever.

micro-evolution = fact
macro-evolution = most likey educated guess based on physical observations of life forms on Earth.

God Bless,
edit on 16-8-2012 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)





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