Evidence that HAARP is manipulating the Earth's weather patterns

reply to post by visualmiscreant

Let's also see you all back up the statements you have made, by showing security clearance to the classified information you are all defending.

Just wondering why one would need a security clearance when the info is readily available on line, and do you even notice the links in their posts which does back up what they are saying?

The only one that has something to prove is the OP as he is the one who that started a thread that says

Evidence that HAARP is manipulating the Earth's weather patterns

Still waiting to see this evidence, any chance you could provide some evidence to show HAARP is doing what the OP is saying it can do?

reply to post by AndyMayhew

I am a member of ATS who like many, don't believe everything the Government tells them. This project is classified, and I know a little about that because I spent 12 years in the military, four in Special Forces, and had a Secret Clearance from 1978 until at least 1993. I have personally been briefed on some of the lies the Government tells us, although that information is also classified. Some of them would make you do back flips... taxpayers too.

If you don't know the classified aspects of this project, why are you so firm in defending it?

Truly, I don't mean to attack anyone here; but I won't be intimidated by answers from those not in the loop either. Either you're in the know or you're not. Other than that, all anyone can offer on this subject is educated speculation, but speculation none-the-less.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h

It's not my place to provide evidence; it's not my thread, and nowhere on this thread have I said I had proof. All I said initially was that Dr Begich said the patents for HAARP contained papers from Nikola Tesla's work. He claimed this in the OPs video. I also said that Dr. Begich seemed legit, and I provided a link.

Boom, phage jumps on me like I've got a stick in my hand beating him. What I want to know is how does he have access to information about a classified military project? If he doesn't, his attacks, intimidation and all his other rantings don't mean doodley squat to me.

If his expertise is in weather, then let him comment on the weather. If his expertise is on HAARP, then he is obviously not who he portrays himself to be. Anyone on ATS claiming to be an authority on HAARP, is obviously not who they portray themselves to be.

Originally posted by visualmiscreant
I am a member of ATS who like many, don't believe everything the Government tells them. This project is classified, and I know a little about that because I spent 12 years in the military, four in Special Forces, and had a Secret Clearance from 1978 until at least 1993. I have personally been briefed on some of the lies the Government tells us, although that information is also classified. Some of them would make you do back flips... taxpayers too.

If you don't know the classified aspects of this project, why are you so firm in defending it?

Your response wasn't directed at me but it may as well have been and I already addressed that here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I don't really know when the government is telling me the truth and when it isn't. But we should all be able to learn these basic principles of science like the inverse square law, and understand how they apply to our daily lives and things like HAARP. Even the government and military has to follow the laws of physics.

So people who claim the laws of physics are being violated by the military and we don't know that because we don't have a security clearance have a weak case.

If you claimed the military was lying to us, but they were doing something within the laws of physics, at least that claim wouldn't be false on it's face value, and then we could debate whether we were being lied to or not.

oh maaan... Arb and the dude with the skull avatar.. enough. Youve spent to much of your time on my thread, pretty much repeating yourself. Be more productive with all that knowledge you have.

If you belive HAARP is what it says it is, if you belive in their statements online, then live another day and shut up about it. IF your like me and dont belive in everything you are told because it has a nice sound to it.. then this thread is still for you.

C-O-N-S-P-I-R-A-C-Y WEBSITE. Get it?? Haarp is a conspiracy in my terms. If not in yours Arb, phage and skullman.. get out of here and enjoy the rest of your life.

No need for the same people clogging up my thread. There will be skeptics and belivers, no matter what. In this case of HAARP causing atmospheric disturbances, I am a beleiver. We already know you are not Arb, so what are you still doing here? There are thousands of other threads.. stop clogging up my thread now please.

Peace to you..

reply to post by LoveisanArt

Sorry,that's not the way ATS works.

ATS is trying to find the good conspiracy theories and weed out the bad ones.

I think I've been very polite and factual and make positive contributions to the thread and as such, I will use my own judgement in deciding whether to post further here or not. The only way I would consider agreeing to stop posting is if you contact a moderator and request that the thread be moved to skunk works, which is a section of ATS where no supporting evidence is required for the conspiracy theory, as you have provided none.

ATS Skunk Works: This forum is dedicated to the all-important highly speculative topics that may not be substantiated by many, if any facts and span the spectrum of topics discussed on ATS. Readers and users should be aware that extreme theories without corroboration are embraced in this forum. Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups.

You talked about sound waves, then agreed that HAARP has nothing to do with sound waves.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

So people who claim the laws of physics are being violated by the military and we don't know that because we don't have a security clearance have a weak case.

I haven't claimed the laws of physics have been violated by the military, the government, or those who operate HAARP. Are you suggesting it?

Weak case? This is a secured government facility, and I guarantee (at least if it was under my command) that nobody but those with proper authorization would get near the place. I've had to hold civilians, including two State Troopers at gunpoint to prove that statement to them. I promise you the security that is in place feels the same way I do. So where are those defending HAARP getting their information from?

I know, you guys already said it's posted online, you don't need a clearance. Keep believing that, and you have failed at denying ignorance...

Originally posted by visualmiscreant
I haven't claimed the laws of physics have been violated by the military, the government, or those who operate HAARP. Are you suggesting it?

You quoted an economist who obviously knows nothing about physics, talking about how HAARP will violate the laws of physics.

Now since I have not yet had the opportunity to express whether I believe that HAARP is in fact being used to manipulate the Earth's weather patterns or not; here are my OPINIONS...

Of course I believe it. Can I personally prove it? No.

Can anything any of you say change my beliefs about this? Not in ten thousand years...

Do I personally have access to classified information in regard to HAARP? Of course not; I do carpentry and electrical work. You don't need a degree to know that something is being used to kill you. HAARP is being used to kill us, and has probably already killed thousands.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by visualmiscreant
I haven't claimed the laws of physics have been violated by the military, the government, or those who operate HAARP. Are you suggesting it?

You quoted an economist who obviously knows nothing about physics, talking about how HAARP will violate the laws of physics.

I quoted him. I did not make the claim.

Prove to me he knows nothing of physics...

Let me just go ahead and tell you all now; you are not gonna change what I believe. And you guys say Christians are running around forcing their beliefs on everybody else. Stop trying to force your beliefs on me...

I have made no claims; I have stated only my beliefs... please get that through your heads and stop trying to convert me...

Originally posted by visualmiscreant

If you don't know the classified aspects of this project, why are you so firm in defending it?

For the same reason that if I was a car mechanic and someone said you could run a normal car on washing powder mixed with hydrochloric acid, I wouldn't beleive them.

Until someone provides some genuine, physically possible, mechanism whereby HAARP can affect weather patterns I say it's compete bunk.

And pretty pictures of normal clouds isn't it.

reply to post by AndyMayhew


how would you know what a "normal" cloud is? 95% of the population doesnt give a S* about the planet, doesnt observe nature and look at patterns. So its easy to tell them ANYthing and they will accept it, because to a conditioned mind, "who cares"?

Im sure you havent been around for a half century, if you have been, Im sure you didnt observe cloud patterns and formations, to find which ones were "normal". We werent using technology such as HAARP in the 50's,60's,70's,80's. That is when there was NORMAL clouds. Now we have the most F' up clouds and people freak out seeing them thinking a devistating storm is approaching their city.

To the same 4 skeptics who chew on everything HAARP has fed them, this is the last time Im responding to either of you. Its just a bunch of repeated bull, and its a waste of time to keep checking my thread (that has already been clogged up for at least 3-4 pages now..) ovre and over..

The ex military guy with the nice elf picture; dont waste your time my friend, your intution feels what is right or wrong. We always have lived in a decieved World, and its people like these same 4 posters who are so easy to manipulate, they chew on everything and anything. So my friend, dont waste your time, mental and emotional energy on this thread. I feel you and we agreee on the same thing

Peace

reply to post by LoveisanArt

oh maaan... Arb and the dude with the skull avatar.. enough. Youve spent to much of your time on my thread, pretty much repeating yourself. Be more productive with all that knowledge you have.

Well then all you have to do is show the evidence that HAARP does what you claim and all will be good in your world.

So do not expect anything different until you can prove your claims. Maybe next time you will figure out how to have an intelligent debate rather than using the childish replies you have given in this thread.

And lastly HAARP does not manipulate anything other than the ionosphere and you have still failed to prove otherwise, but I implore you to keep trying as you may find something that you can actually use to back your claims....Good Luck with that.

reply to post by LoveisanArt

To the same 4 skeptics who chew on everything HAARP has fed them, this is the last time Im responding to either of you. Its just a bunch of repeated bull, and its a waste of time to keep checking my thread (that has already been clogged up for at least 3-4 pages now..) ovre and over..

I know you won't respond to this and I don't care if you do,but in the future when you start a thread you may want to actually have evidence that will actually back your claims,and saying I or someone else had a vision does not constitute sufficient evidence to prove your claims.

Again I will ask of you to show where any evidence that has been presented in this thread by those who do not agree with you has been BS, as you keep saying it but you can not show proof of it.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
reply to post by subject x

 

Logic has to backup what we feel is true.

Nonsense. Logic and feelings are often inversely proportional.

You can go on and belive everything HAARP has to say and states.

HAARP doesn't talk...

I bet you belived Obama when he told America he was going to take the troops out of Iraq.

You lose that bet.

My intuition is much more accurate then your conditioned brain. Im sure of that.

No, it isn't.

Beleiving everything you are told is exactly why we have sheep and America is the way it is today.

Like believing HAARP is dangerous because someone on the internet said so?

Your sarcastic post for psychics.. go meet one buddy. They will be able to tell you everythin about you and your current life without asking any questions about it. They have natural insight, as well as an unconditioned mind.

I've met "psychics" before. Wasn't impressed.

Your conditioned to think psychics are loonie.. but Ill take a psychics insight over anything the government and military tell the public.

No, my mind tells me that psychics are con men, not looney.

Intution will tell you when your being lied to.

Not necessarily.

Logic will not

Yes, it will. It's doing that for me right now.

I, as well as hundreds of millions of others, know Haarp is lying, all governments lie. What they tell you, is a front for what they are really doing in Alaska.

Personally, I have doubts that "hundreds of millions" of people have even heard of HAARP, let alone have any clue as to what it is or how it works.

Like you, for instance.

reply to post by subject x


I believe what a psychic says in fact here is a good one...

reply to post by visualmiscreant

I spent 12 years in the military, four in Special Forces, and had a Secret Clearance from 1978 until at least 1993.

1993 - 1978 = 15 years. How can you maintain a secret clearance for three years longer than your admitted length of service. You did not have a secret clearance from the first day of basic training, did you?

reply to post by visualmiscreant

I guarantee (at least if it was under my command) that nobody but those with proper authorization would get near the place.

Okay, but the others here have already demonstrated the general public can tour the facility once a month on scheduled days. In other words, you can show up and join the tour. No questions asked.

Originally posted by LoveisanArt
reply to post by AndyMayhew

 

how would you know what a "normal" cloud is? 95% of the population doesnt give a S* about the planet, doesnt observe nature and look at patterns. So its easy to tell them ANYthing and they will accept it, because to a conditioned mind, "who cares"?

I'm an amateur meteorologist, hillwalker and photographer (predominantly of landscapes and skyscapes). And I most certainly do observe nature and look at patterns.

Im sure you havent been around for a half century, if you have been, Im sure you didnt observe cloud patterns and formations, to find which ones were "normal".

I'm only 46. But a great many people were observing and describing clouds long before I was born. And I don't beleive they were all making it up.

We werent using technology such as HAARP in the 50's,60's,70's,80's. That is when there was NORMAL clouds. Now we have the most F' up clouds and people freak out seeing them thinking a devistating storm is approaching their city.

Well you prove the point: today we see the same clouds people saw in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. And long before then. Luke Howard came up with the first cloud classification system over 200 years ago.

The only difference is that in the early 1800s people who didn't know clouds weren't posting pictures of them on the internet and wetting themselves.

reply to post by visualmiscreant

So where are those defending HAARP getting their information from?

They are getting it here. Please note, the information presented by any of the ATS members here IS NOT CLASSIFIED. It is free and available to the public. It is not even a government website. It is an educational website.

If HAARP was as you say it is, then why have any tours? After all, you can show up and tour the facility. This means a foreign spy could show up and tour the facility. If it had some deep, sinister purpose, you do not think the foreign enemies of the US would have proof? Sure they would...Iran posted proof of our drone spying over Iran. Could not deny it anymore. They would post this proof in a heartbeat. Unless of course Iran is also in on the operation.