I think it's time for Religion to die.

Originally posted by MrTheOutspoken
.

I'm just going to say no I have never studied satanism, but I do feel I am a little more well informed about what "Satanism" (luciferianism) is compared to most religious types. From the Jyst of it, I got those who follow the keeper of light, have very similar thoughts, morals and ideals as any other church, just with some added freedoms most churches completely and utterly won't stand for. Too many " Satanist" labels are thrown at peoples in cults, magick and ceremonial organizations and it really muddies the water for what it really is.

I will now repeat something I said earlier, from death comes new life. I truly feel men all over the world are mislead by religion, every religions feels they are the right religion, and that their god is the almighty.

I've seen others here say I am bashing God. No, I am after the religion aspect. I have beliefs too, they are a little different, and follow more of my own learning and discoveries through my time here. I believe full well as it can be proven the very same energy in me, you, your children, my future children, this computer, the air, the universe is the same. We have recently begun to understand how energy can be come solid matter, we understand impulses in the brain, and nerve synapses are energy. Energy is everywhere, and i understand it is the source and life with in EVERYTHING. So do I believe in a god, sort of. I believe in a source, what ever you all wish to call him is your own personal belief and I am not going to tell you not to do it.

However, when a group tells children what to believe from birth, and that's others thoughts and opinions are wrong I have a problem.

I realize this may sound hypocritical to some, but does your own bibles/holy books not sound ridiculous to anyone? Your comandments/rules to live by, tell you such wonderful things and yet so many don't follow them unless the person is another of their religion, or willing to become part of that religion. Why must we argue over it? Why is it important what we call him,her, it? So much of the importance of the teachings is burried in long lasting disputes,hatreds towards each other and the books themselves keep it going, as do the religions. If we can all agree, there is a source somewhere/everywhere, and we can all learn to appreciate and love each other unconditionally as religion tells you to do, but then directs to God. Things would be better! I've tried to warmly accept every ones posts, and I am trying to upset you believe you, because I feel I'm not going to get you to understand where I come from, and with out that emotion your not growing yourselves. Throwing regurgitated scripture at me makes you all robots. Insert command, receive response. Please, be people. We are all people.

Religion could be a powerful force for bringing about world peace, if only the religious practiced their religions.

Originally posted by flexy123

Originally posted by prophetboy12
I will not even read your thread. with all of the s--t hitting the fan and the unrest, if you do not believe that we need more God then you are simply a fool. But that is your right.

This is the problem! People focusing too much on their god (whatever name he might have)...at the same time forgetting there are more important thing (I MEAN IT)..start with the human person next to you.

We do not need "more god", we need more people learning how we as HUMANS live with each other....a "religion" where the focus is HUMANS, teaches values such as compassion, peace etc... not some "god" or making it the utmost priority to "talk to god". And..who knows..maybe you would actually experience your god or find out what giod is by starting to learn to care etc. for actual humans.

Thank you, this was the point I'm trying to make, and though my OP is filled with lots of emotion, and was meant to get at those that are religious, I don't care what you call god. The concept is the same, does he exist as a conciousness I have no clue. I do however believe in a source, we are all energy, bound together in tiny atoms. Everything is. If you break those atoms, out comes the energy, and we've recently discovered how that energy can become matter. The Energy always exists, so yes as most religions label god, it's there. We just call it different things, and so many are so quick to say I'm saying we need to kill god. God, isn't the problem, men are. Religion gives men the feeling of superiority towards others. Another poster used the comment of soldiers on opposing sides saying god is on their side, and that god will protect them. Same god, just men using it as an excuse to do horrible things to each other. My problem is with the way religions are, men has made it the ultimate excuse for every action he makes.

If god exists, and loves us unconditionally. If god was so generous to allow us to make our own decisions, why would he hate us for taking a different path to find him. Many religions right that their religion is the only path to god and I have a huge problem with this. How ever every religion says god wants us to love and accept EVERY man woman and child, so why are there Exceptions written in a book written by man.

If all these people believing in god, want to be closer to him, who don't they think more like him. We are created in his image so your books say, so is everything around you. Learn to respect each other, learn to get along, learn to understand each other. NO MATTER WHAT! Do we hate our mothers? Do we hate our brothers? Why? It's just beyond me that a family following their holy books every words will hate their neighbours for being gay, for being muslim, hindu, christian, catholic, Etc. Everyone's " Religion" Teaches acceptance, love, peace, charity, understanding, but at the same time teaches the opposite.

Originally posted by bigcountry08
This is one of the most hypocritical posts I've seen in a long time first you state that.

why do we perpetuate the story of Religion?

The ideal, that when we die, believing, loving, and obedient to god we get to go to heaven removes a sense of responsibility and care from our lives. This notion, that no matter what god has our backs, prevents many individuals from truly doing everything in their powers to take care of themselves. As well this notion, that all the evil in the world is the work of a devil is even worse. Again, we take the responsibility away from man, and place it on a fictional character.

basically your entire post is about bashing christianity and muslims stating that they are rediculouse and stupied and that there is no proof that either are true and that we should get rid of "all religion".

Then we get to your third from the last paragraph which made me laugh. Your talking about a new religion !!!!!! one where you can do what ever you want throughout your whole life because there are no consequences, because when you die you go to another dimention or something hmmm... sounds like your heaven to me. basically what this post comes down to is another person who finds it to scary to believe in something thats more powerful than them and if they wont follow they will be punished. But they still want that safty net knowing that when they die it wont be over for them.

Not to be to harsh or anything but stop being a wuss and choose to be agnostic or not. you can't have your cake and eat it too.

from a christian.

Really? I said religion as a whole, not Christianity, or Islam. I used examples of how these religions can drive men to make obscene judgement, and acts towards other men. I do not follow any religion, I believe when we die our energy will move on, I never claimed an afterlife, heaven or hell. You want to know something neat about science? Energy is in Everything. It will always be there. It changes forms, but it's always there. I dislike the concept when we pass, our energy retains it's conscious, and is rewarded. I 100% accept the Multi-verse theory, in this exact way potential overlaps can explain so many paranormal occurences. I how ever cherish this life, and even those I disagree with or don't understand I am not out to treat them any differently. I personally accept everyone, how ever I feel so many are being mislead, and taught to hate each other it's really bothering me. This title was intended to draw people in, I've had those read only the title come in and say " yes, please." As well as those that only read the title and come after me with scripture claiming I'm being hateful. I respect you for believing in god, if that is what you want to do. I how ever have a hard time respecting those using their religion as an excuse to do good, and bad in their lives. Whether it be to one person, a family, race, sexuality, or religion.

I can't help but see too many turning around and telling me it's okay to judge because their religions say so, but at the same time they preach about how much better they are for loving everyone. I accept your beliefs, and I'm trying to get them explained to me. You can not turn around and tell me I'm full of #, because I can quote scripture right now, that will say otherwise. Religions, Bibles, what ever the holy book. The great majority are hypocritical, and have "loop holes" to exploit, hate, and belittle others. I am not here to belittle people, nor am I saying you or anyone else is bad. I am how ever saying religion is deceitful, two sided, 100% service to believer rather than all, and uses so many convenient excuses as to why we or god will punish other humans.

It's not right, please explain it to me.

reply to post by Ilyich


As a person who lives his life in terms of practicing the mysterious system of beliefs. I agree with you that religion has it's fault as well science. But you must understand that it is not religion, who has blinded and lied to people of such idea's and 'Truths' of the universe. It is culture and individuals who have abused religion and who abuse science till this day. It is not wrong to look for answers, not at all. I'm not a man of much words or discussion, but here is a quote to assist you on your journey of 'Truth'.

"He who talks does not know, he who knows does not talk".

Love to you seeker!

Originally posted by ottobot
I've got to agree with AfterInfinity on this one.

While the folks who blindly follow their religious leaders (not the actual book they claim to use for guidance) are ruining the world for all of us, the folks who are living spiritual lives are making the world better for all of us.

There is a very clear difference between religious and spiritual.

With religion or doctrine-based belief of any kind (some sciences included), you see close-mindedness like nowhere else. You see disdain for the "lesser minds" and "weak souls" who don't believe the same way.

With (true) spirituality, you see acceptance for others and other people's beliefs.

There are many types and degrees of religious, spiritual, and scientific beliefs.

Personally, I feel like they are all the same thing: a way to find answers and bring comfort to our lonely human existence.

The key is to realize that we will never have all the answers because our brains aren't yet evolved enough to perceive all aspects of our reality.

Live and let live; just make sure you're actually Living, not hiding from life.

I have a two words I like to say to anyone, and I use it in a number of contexts. " Just be." I am not out to belittle beliefs, and though I may disagree with much of them passionately, I simply cannot understand the great majority of them. I have read different holy books from a variety of religions, and the reality is they all teach the same fundamentals, morals and beliefs. Some with alarming similarity. My issue falls with men taking these words and using them as excuses to judge each other, act a certain way, feel superior to another man/woman.

All over the US,Canada, Mexico, and the world over protests and extremist groups take their words and use them as weapons against other men. For instance, many religious groups with awful signs protesting, soldiers funerals, Homosexuals, transgenders, Extremist Muslims against christians, and Christians,catholics,(holy bible has many followers with many different names.) against Muslims. It makes me so upset, and I can't say it makes me angry at the man, but that the men were mislead so horribly. That something meant to bring people together is being used to drive men further and further apart.

Religion, needs to die. From death, comes new life. Until we can all face each other with open arms, it's only going to send us further and further towards the end. I can say the same thing for politics, how ever so much with in politics, uses Class, religion, sexuality as a tool of separation.

I feel from the bottom of my soul, religion has created and promotes a duality. If there is a god, as religions claim the books should not be needed. Every man, should be able to find him on his own. His words are destroyed by religions and religious leaders alike.

We need to come to a new understanding, with each other and with spirituality. I do not propose any religion, and I do not propose any man do anything to harm each other, or the planet we reside. We are all family and this is our home, to me organized is the only thing standing between us and god. It was meant to give us the tools, but what good is a tool meant to unite when it's used as a weapon.

reply to post by Ilyich


I don't think you want an end to religion, you want an end to belief in God altogether from what I can gather?
Well I'm sorry but you are well in the minority on that one.

If you want to know why babies are born without arms and legs? Easy - karma and reincarnation. Not God working in mysterious ways.... Us doing bad stuff and then blaming God.

If you deny God, you welcome ignorance with open arms. Good luck with it.

Originally posted by Ilyich

Originally posted by MrTheOutspoken
.

I'm just going to say no I have never studied satanism, but I do feel I am a little more well informed about what "Satanism" (luciferianism) is compared to most religious types. From the Jyst of it, I got those who follow the keeper of light, have very similar thoughts, morals and ideals as any other church, just with some added freedoms most churches completely and utterly won't stand for. Too many " Satanist" labels are thrown at peoples in cults, magick and ceremonial organizations and it really muddies the water for what it really is.

I will now repeat something I said earlier, from death comes new life. I truly feel men all over the world are mislead by religion, every religions feels they are the right religion, and that their god is the almighty.

I've seen others here say I am bashing God. No, I am after the religion aspect. I have beliefs too, they are a little different, and follow more of my own learning and discoveries through my time here. I believe full well as it can be proven the very same energy in me, you, your children, my future children, this computer, the air, the universe is the same. We have recently begun to understand how energy can be come solid matter, we understand impulses in the brain, and nerve synapses are energy. Energy is everywhere, and i understand it is the source and life with in EVERYTHING. So do I believe in a god, sort of. I believe in a source, what ever you all wish to call him is your own personal belief and I am not going to tell you not to do it.

However, when a group tells children what to believe from birth, and that's others thoughts and opinions are wrong I have a problem.

I realize this may sound hypocritical to some, but does your own bibles/holy books not sound ridiculous to anyone? Your comandments/rules to live by, tell you such wonderful things and yet so many don't follow them unless the person is another of their religion, or willing to become part of that religion. Why must we argue over it? Why is it important what we call him,her, it? So much of the importance of the teachings is burried in long lasting disputes,hatreds towards each other and the books themselves keep it going, as do the religions. If we can all agree, there is a source somewhere/everywhere, and we can all learn to appreciate and love each other unconditionally as religion tells you to do, but then directs to God. Things would be better! I've tried to warmly accept every ones posts, and I am trying to upset you believe you, because I feel I'm not going to get you to understand where I come from, and with out that emotion your not growing yourselves. Throwing regurgitated scripture at me makes you all robots. Insert command, receive response. Please, be people. We are all people.

Ok well I take it back if your gripe is against religion, and not a Source, Creator, God, Universal intelligence. I really do think denying a Source, Creator is ignorant.

The religions of the world are really all worshipping the same God. It is mans short-sighted ego and argumentative nature that creates divisions and quarreling. Like the 3 blind men describing the elephant. One has its tail and says “it’s like a long rope that hangs from the sky” the second man, rubbing its body says “no, it’s like a big wall” the third man holding its leg says “you fools, you are both wrong, its like a big tree trunk”.

I think devout religious people are, in general, good people that want to improve themselves and the world around them. They may be more or less misguided, controlled from the top, manipulated etc. but are generally good people that listen to their conscience and try to do the right thing. (Religion has been, and always will be, manipulated to some degree. There are extremists in every walk of life, whether you are a banker, politician, policeman, Christian or a Moslem. Just because religion can be controlled, manipulated and contains a minority of extremists among its membership, this is no reason to dismiss it altogether. Every organization in the world has the same inherent problems. In its purest form, religion is a good and noble practice; we do not need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Just my two cents.

Amidst your rant, was a little gem.

You believe after death..."that there is something"... you just do not know what it is.

Many people believe there is something, and in their minds they DO know what it is. Their expression is one of the elements of what makes up religion or religions around the world.

Analogy...

One person see a piece of meat but is not sure of what it is.

Another person sees a frankfurter and it should be served with kraut.

Another sees a sausage and it should be served with potatoes and onions.

Yet another sees a hotdog and it should be served on a bun with mustard and chilli.

Still another refuses to see anything because they are vegan and don't like meat.

Same thing, just different ways of approaching it or not approaching it at all.

I like my religion with chilli, mustard, onions, and slaw... with a serving of fries drowned in ketchup... 'two all the way!"

reply to post by AlreadyGone


Of course everyone knows what comes after death. If it isn't an incinerator, its a pine box and eternity with worms. What more could there possibly be?

reply to post by Ilyich

If we can all agree, there is a source somewhere/everywhere, and we can all learn to appreciate and love each other unconditionally as religion tells you to do, but then directs to God. Things would be better! I've tried to warmly accept every ones posts, and I am trying to upset you believe you, because I feel I'm not going to get you to understand where I come from, and with out that emotion your not growing yourselves. Throwing regurgitated scripture at me makes you all robots. Insert command, receive response. Please, be people. We are all people.

Very well said, Ilyich. I agree with you.

I suspect a lot of responders didn't read your entire OP, or skimmed it and their hackles got raised in defensive mode, so out they come, snarling. Your points are very valid ones; I believe youngsters should be taught the whole variety of "faith" thinking, and then feel free, with no pressure or shame, to choose a path that feels right.

If, hypothetically, there were no "organized church religions", people would still be free to have their own opinions, to pray or kneel or fast or read scripture all they want; the problem is that the world's religions are exclusive. And, in my opinion, you are right, humanity needs to be INclusive of EVERYONE, with compassion, understanding, and a willingness to help.

For a more in-depth look at the Christian mindset/psychology, I recommend William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience: A Study in Human Nature (It's not super easy prose, as it's written in 19th century English with lots of very long, complicated sentences, but if you take your time to absorb it, it's well worth the effort.) Free to read online at the link above and other sites as well...but still available in book form, if you prefer (Which I do, for dogearing, cross-referencing, flipping back, etc.....but I'm old-school that way).

James points out how a person's psyche and circumstances leads them, in combination with their degree of "faith" and "belief" in preconceived/packaged notions, to have unique experiences.

He concludes that there is no one "correct" way; that each of us is completely unique, and therefore we should not expect there to be a "one-size-fits-all" way or "truth." Until we know (which we as a species may never know, because even if someone did come back -- which they do, if one believes in ghosts, channeling, NDE survivors, resuscitated flatliners, etc. -- and tell us, they are often scoffed at) for certain what happens, and where it all started and came from, there will be differences of opinion, and also those who don't even care to give it any thought.

Anyway, I get what you're saying, and I'm sorry people are getting all upset at you; it was an honest premise, and an interesting (if volatile and controversial) OP. Only a suggestion and opinion from a young man who is part of the future leaders of the world. Upon you all hang our very hope for survival and growth toward something better, and good, and peaceful.

Don't cave in, and don't stop asking -- don't stop challenging the status quo...and kudos to your parents

Namaste
~wild

Originally posted by Andromedabound
reply to post by Ilyich

 

I don't think you want an end to religion, you want an end to belief in God altogether from what I can gather?
Well I'm sorry but you are well in the minority on that one.

If you want to know why babies are born without arms and legs? Easy - karma and reincarnation. Not God working in mysterious ways.... Us doing bad stuff and then blaming God.

If you deny God, you welcome ignorance with open arms. Good luck with it.

edit on 1-8-2012 by Andromedabound because: Expletive

Read the whole thread, I've had to explain this over and over. I believe in a source, energy, god whatever you want to call it. I how ever loath how religion misleads, deceives and corrupts man. Take some time and read through the thread, I've tried pretty hard to reply to everyone but I'm falling behind.

I appreciate your comments, appreciate you reading what I've wrote. It was meant to get to you, and promote a critical type of thinking.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Ilyich

 

Thank you thank you thank you, and Namaste!

I'm sorry I missed your earlier post, I did read it and I can try to make a double whammy here for you! I am not ignoring or missed you, but I must have closed the quote thinking I had already replied. I have read the Ghita, so I know a little bit about Hinduism, a small bit about buddhism. I am wasn't trying to imply that all religions are against science, how ever I do feel a great deal of religions have played their parts in hindering certain fields of science.

I enjoy much of what many religions teach, and I can appreciate some of their teachings, I can not how ever understand some of the interpretations. I have always looked up to the Llama with great admiration, and as much as I have problems with a majority of religions the east has a better grasp than about ohhhh 75% of the west. I have the least problems with Buddhism, how ever I do have a few things I have difficulty with. I can greatly appreciate the ideas with in buddhism that is up to man to find god through inner peace and understanding, and through that the understanding of the world around him, and through such becoming closer to their idea of " God. " One of the things, I appreciate most about buddhism is that god is with in all of us in a way, and that through appreciating ourselves and all that is around us we can become next to/with "god"

I have noticed this as well, but it was with intention I provoked the beast. I felt I needed to express my emotions in an inquisitive provocative manner to receive true emotional responses. I believe in a lot of sense religion teaches absence of emotion, and "Blind faith"(it's so true.) that they forget the most important part of what they are taught. I always thought the golden rule was taught in kindergarden " Treat others as you would like to be treated." I appreciate the reading material!! I'm always looking for new things to learn, and trying to experience all things through all perspectives. Kind of another point of this thread.

"Anyway, I get what you're saying, and I'm sorry people are getting all upset at you; it was an honest premise, and an interesting (if volatile and controversial) OP. Only a suggestion and opinion from a young man who is part of the future leaders of the world. Upon you all hang our very hope for survival and growth toward something better, and good, and peaceful.

Don't cave in, and don't stop asking -- don't stop challenging the status quo...and kudos to your parents"

I appreciate the warm thoughts, and as much as this has had some overwhelming, frustrating moments, it was what I intended it to be. Sometimes to get to the truth we have to get emotional. www.youtube.com...




I appreciate your comments on being the leaders of tomorrow. If I could do one thing to change the world, it would be to put the world back in the hands of the many, rather than the few.

Thank you so much for bringing peace and civility to a chaotic ride! I appreciate all the support, your comments and thank you for reading.

Namaste, Blessed Be, and have a wonderful day.

Ilyich

edit on 8/1/2012 by Ilyich because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Ilyich


So, what is the solution?

Removing religion is treating the symptom, not the illness.

The "illness", in this case, is fear.

People are driven to ritualistic or pre-dictated behavior because they are looking for meaning in their lives. Most people don't want to think for themselves, and don't want to be responsible for mistakes they make. People are afraid, so people huddle together under the safety net of belief - making themselves feel important by separating themselves from others.

When we see this affecting the world at large, we are seeing the actions of zealots, not the general populace of believers.

If we look at the religion as "a specific set of beliefs and practices agreed upon by a number of persons or sects", then we must include all manner of groupings people prefer to categorize themselves by. This would include atheism, Darwinism, "Foodie"-ism, anarchism (and, as you mentioned, any other type of political group), mysticism, scientific belief systems, and so on.

Now, obviously, most people who describe themselves as "non-religious" would balk at and be offended by the insinuation that their disbelief in commonly accepted religion is a religion unto itself... But, really, we can see this demonstrated on ATS very clearly when we look at threads which discuss Christianity vs. Atheism. Both groups - "Christians" and "Atheists" - are vehement that their belief systems are correct, that there are no other truths, that they have "proof" of their beliefs, degradation of anyone who voices dissent, etc. Realistically, there is no difference in their behavior, just a difference in which deity (God vs. Science) is worshiped.

So, then, we must ask: Why do we cling to these beliefs so stubbornly? Why do we make these beliefs so integral to our identities that we do not know how to exist without them?

Why are we so afraid of not knowing the answers?

The truth is, humans do not like to feel powerless.

By removing the crutch of religion (commonly accepted belief systems of all types), we remove the identities of the majority of all humans.

So, what happens then?

What, then, would these humans who are stripped bare and left without their safe beliefs or identities do?

Congregate into groups to defend themselves against other groups by any means necessary.

Human fear is religion.

To remove religion, we will have to remove our instincts and our humanity.

Who are we then?

I would like to take a moment now, to thank everyone who has participated with the discussion thus far, for their contributions, beliefs and opinions. I appreciate and respect every one of you. Though what I have been saying, and trying to understand my be controversial and shocking to some, I feel you have all helped me a great deal in beginning to understand, that which I have said and hope that I have opened some eyes and hearts.

It was my intention from the very first words of this article to upset, bend, stir up your emotions. As I myself have done my best to speak from my heart and with true emotion I see the same from many of you. Those who have held their ground, and stated their beliefs I commend you. You and you alone can decide who, what, why you believe in what you believe in. It is not my goal to tell you how to live your lives, nor is it my goal to tell you the belief in god is wrong. I simply would like to see all of us, white, black, brown, yellow, red, christian, jew, hindu, buddhist, taoist, muslim, homsexual, heterosexual, man woman or child united. It is with in us, our futures lie. If we continue the duality or the perpetuation of hatred, fear, mistrust, superiority, than we will grow ever farther from each other, and ever further from "God"(We all address, He, him, it differently but we are united in that.)

I don't want to sound cliche, or dictator-esque as some have claimed, but I have a dream. As many, if not all of us do. A dream of a united man, who works together, who understands and accepts each other for who they are, not who they aren't. It is from unity that we will all truly begin to grow, and thrive as human beings. I know, I have chosen to break down, and analyze organized religion, but we have to get to the very fundamentals, beliefs and morals of men, before we can learn to work together, as a society. A family of men, the human race. When we can believe in each other, and accept each other irregardless of colour, sex, sexuality, age or where we are from. Then we will begin to take the next step towards a better tomorrow.

We all feel, breath, live and bleed the same. As long as we continue the idea someone is inferior than another we will be the cause of our own demise. I do not believe any one person can tell another what is or isn't right for them, so why do we keep doing so? Why does one man, run the lives of many?

I can't help but feel some of the greatest steps on the path of man, were family, civilization and spirituality. I truly believe with in our life time, with all the great advancements in technology, and society that we can truly begin to put unity into place. How ever we can not do this with out understanding each other, and it is through interaction and communication that we can come to this understanding.

Thank you all for helping me learn a little bit more about you, and thank you all for reading what I have written thus far. I hope that you have learned a little bit more about me, and that we can come to an understanding of each other.

I've been a little busier the last few days, and as the thread continues to grow I'm having a harder time keeping track of who and who I have not replied to or included in the discussion. If you would like to hear what I have to say and I have not replied to you send me a u2u tell me what page your post is on and I will read and reply. I will do my best to try to get to everyone, and will continue to do so as this discussion continues. I would like to thank everyone again for their time, and for any emotions, beliefs and opinions you have written here to share with me. I apologize if my angle was sharp, but it was meant to be. It has how ever been a great success thus far.

I am grateful for and appreciate you all,

Ilyich.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Amidst your rant, was a little gem.

You believe after death..."that there is something"... you just do not know what it is.

Many people believe there is something, and in their minds they DO know what it is. Their expression is one of the elements of what makes up religion or religions around the world.

Analogy...

One person see a piece of meat but is not sure of what it is.

Another person sees a frankfurter and it should be served with kraut.

Another sees a sausage and it should be served with potatoes and onions.

Yet another sees a hotdog and it should be served on a bun with mustard and chilli.

Still another refuses to see anything because they are vegan and don't like meat.

Same thing, just different ways of approaching it or not approaching it at all.

I like my religion with chilli, mustard, onions, and slaw... with a serving of fries drowned in ketchup... 'two all the way!"

I am glad you noticed this little gem, but I'm sad you missed an obvious ingredient to the sausage. Religion is written by man, and no man that has truly been to the other side has made it back to inform us all. The holy books were written by men, changed by men, translated and rewritten by men through out the ages.

Lots of people have had near death experiences and claim to have seen a bright white light.

Light is energy, white light is all colours. So if we are all composed of energy, as our conscious begins to fade and this energy is released, wouldn't it make sense that what's left of our functioning body might pick the faintest bit of this up as it begins to escape rather than, that energy release as energy, then return somehow retaining a memory? I do not believe memory exists outside of the living body. How ever with in energy I do believe lies everything. It is in fact a part of you and everything around you. All the elements we know of are composed of varying amounts of the same thing, Energy. Different amounts of energy at different vibrations compose everything from light to stone. It's really quite remarkable when you think about the universe for what it is, a beautiful harmonic symphony of energy.

reply to post by Ilyich

I have always looked up to the Llama with great admiration, and as much as I have problems with a majority of religions the east has a better grasp than about ohhhh 75% of the west. I have the least problems with Buddhism, how ever I do have a few things I have difficulty with. I can greatly appreciate the ideas with in buddhism that is up to man to find god through inner peace and understanding, and through that the understanding of the world around him, and through such becoming closer to their idea of " God. " One of the things, I appreciate most about buddhism is that god is with in all of us in a way, and that through appreciating ourselves and all that is around us we can become next to/with "god"

I know what you mean, I have studied them as well.

My leanings are toward Buddhism, Taoism, and some of the Earth religions...

Brightest blessings to you, too!

Originally posted by ottobot
reply to post by Ilyich

 

So, what is the solution?

Removing religion is treating the symptom, not the illness.

The "illness", in this case, is fear.

People are driven to ritualistic or pre-dictated behavior because they are looking for meaning in their lives. Most people don't want to think for themselves, and don't want to be responsible for mistakes they make. People are afraid, so people huddle together under the safety net of belief - making themselves feel important by separating themselves from others.

When we see this affecting the world at large, we are seeing the actions of zealots, not the general populace of believers.

If we look at the religion as "a specific set of beliefs and practices agreed upon by a number of persons or sects", then we must include all manner of groupings people prefer to categorize themselves by. This would include atheism, Darwinism, "Foodie"-ism, anarchism (and, as you mentioned, any other type of political group), mysticism, scientific belief systems, and so on.

Now, obviously, most people who describe themselves as "non-religious" would balk at and be offended by the insinuation that their disbelief in commonly accepted religion is a religion unto itself... But, really, we can see this demonstrated on ATS very clearly when we look at threads which discuss Christianity vs. Atheism. Both groups - "Christians" and "Atheists" - are vehement that their belief systems are correct, that there are no other truths, that they have "proof" of their beliefs, degradation of anyone who voices dissent, etc. Realistically, there is no difference in their behavior, just a difference in which deity (God vs. Science) is worshiped.

So, then, we must ask: Why do we cling to these beliefs so stubbornly? Why do we make these beliefs so integral to our identities that we do not know how to exist without them?

Why are we so afraid of not knowing the answers?

The truth is, humans do not like to feel powerless.

By removing the crutch of religion (commonly accepted belief systems of all types), we remove the identities of the majority of all humans.

So, what happens then?

What, then, would these humans who are stripped bare and left without their safe beliefs or identities do?

Congregate into groups to defend themselves against other groups by any means necessary.

Human fear is religion.

To remove religion, we will have to remove our instincts and our humanity.

Who are we then?

Otto!!! Thank you for joining the discussion, it's always good to see a familiar soul taking part.

Very, very interesting though to ponder. I do not claim to have the answers as of yet, I am merely seeking, as I propose and incurage others to do themselves. As of this point, I believe we need to shift our beliefs to each other. This is an incredible task I know, and it in itself requires and incredible amount of faith, but I truly believe if we instilled the faith so many have in god, towards each other we would see enormous results.

I am well aware this very well may not be the answer, but I can not help but see the questions religion itself instills, and the turmoil these questions provoke. Many a men and woman have become very lost when they begin to question what they believe in, but I believe with my entire heart it is not until we begin to question that which we have been taught to be true, that we will begin to become closer to "god."

We were given free will for a reason, we learned to ask questions and seek answers for a reason. There is a solution to everything, no matter how absurd it may seem.

Much love, and thank you for participating. As you are aware, my situation has provided me with just what you asked. The journey of life provides us with plenty of opportunities to seek out, understand and conquer our fears. So if as you proposed religion is fear, would it not make sense to seek out, understand and conquer it?

I believe the teachings of religion, the warmth, comfort, safety and humility it teaches can be had with out the dualities it promotes. It is time for us to take what was taught and leave the teachers behind, and prepare our future for what obstacles they may face. The teachings of old lack trust in man, and I believe this is absolutely necessary for our future generations.

I appreciate the thoughts you have put in my mind, and unfortunately I do not feel I or anyone else is truly prepared to answer all these questions at this moment in time, but I intend to do everything in my power to find out, as I would hope all of us do. The religions of past, though well intended have caused more seperation than unity, and I can only hope from this we can grow for a better tomorrow that will last for future generations.

reply to post by Ilyich


You re entitled to your own opinion.

If you have indeed no single sensitivity for the spiritual - in this case God -

then i deeply, deeply, deeply pity you.

Deeply.

reply to post by Lone12

You didn't read his OP, did you? No, you didn't. Or his other posts explaining his spirituality. Too bad, you might have learned something. I don't think deep pity is warranted, and I doubt he does either. It's deeply disturbing, though, that you can't be bothered to hear someone out before jumping on the shame and blame and HTT wagon.

You weren't talking to me, I know.
*sigh*
*deeper sigh*

Please, open your mind.

(And Ilyich, I'm sorry for butting in..I hate to see bashers bashing without having read through)