I think it's time for Religion to die.

reply to post by Ilyich


I just want to clarify that there is a huge difference between religion and spirituality. You're talking about religion, you're not condemning spirituality itself, right?

Because while I agree that the factors that constitute a religion also contribute to the long list of temptations that eventually spoil the whole deal, I don't agree that spirituality should be dicarded simply because religion wore it as a mask.

Keep spirituality, quarantine religion. Let them do what they want, but keep them from infecting the rest of society with false ideas of spirit.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Ilyich

 

I just want to clarify that there is a huge difference between religion and spirituality. You're talking about religion, you're not condemning spirituality itself, right?

Because while I agree that the factors that constitute a religion also contribute to the long list of temptations that eventually spoil the whole deal, I don't agree that spirituality should be dicarded simply because religion wore it as a mask.

Keep spirituality, quarantine religion. Let them do what they want, but keep them from infecting the rest of society with false ideas of spirit.

How can you see where religious dogma ends and spiritual seeking begins for people who have not experianced reading Jesus teaching in a higher state of conciousness? Should we judge the babies that need to drink the knowledge as babymilk because they are not ready to eat the knowledge as solid food as we might be.

reply to post by apushforenlightment

How can you see where religious dogma ends and spiritual seeking begins for people who have not experianced reading Jesus teaching in a higher state of conciousness?

Well, here's the difference: Spirituality is many, many shades of gray with a few other colors mixed in for fun.

Your faith: black and white. And you don't even do a good job of painting the horses, so to speak.

Basically, spirituality understands that nothing is absolute. But because you want ANSWERS, you go for absolute, and anything you can't answer absolutely, you do cop-out and say, "The Lord works in mysterious ways."

Another way of saying, "You're asking me? "

This is one of the most hypocritical posts I've seen in a long time first you state that.

why do we perpetuate the story of Religion?

The ideal, that when we die, believing, loving, and obedient to god we get to go to heaven removes a sense of responsibility and care from our lives. This notion, that no matter what god has our backs, prevents many individuals from truly doing everything in their powers to take care of themselves. As well this notion, that all the evil in the world is the work of a devil is even worse. Again, we take the responsibility away from man, and place it on a fictional character.

basically your entire post is about bashing christianity and muslims stating that they are rediculouse and stupied and that there is no proof that either are true and that we should get rid of "all religion".

Then we get to your third from the last paragraph which made me laugh. Your talking about a new religion !!!!!! one where you can do what ever you want throughout your whole life because there are no consequences, because when you die you go to another dimention or something hmmm... sounds like your heaven to me. basically what this post comes down to is another person who finds it to scary to believe in something thats more powerful than them and if they wont follow they will be punished. But they still want that safty net knowing that when they die it wont be over for them.

Not to be to harsh or anything but stop being a wuss and choose to be agnostic or not. you can't have your cake and eat it too.

from a christian.

I've got to agree with AfterInfinity on this one.

While the folks who blindly follow their religious leaders (not the actual book they claim to use for guidance) are ruining the world for all of us, the folks who are living spiritual lives are making the world better for all of us.

There is a very clear difference between religious and spiritual.

With religion or doctrine-based belief of any kind (some sciences included), you see close-mindedness like nowhere else. You see disdain for the "lesser minds" and "weak souls" who don't believe the same way.

With (true) spirituality, you see acceptance for others and other people's beliefs.

There are many types and degrees of religious, spiritual, and scientific beliefs.

Personally, I feel like they are all the same thing: a way to find answers and bring comfort to our lonely human existence.

The key is to realize that we will never have all the answers because our brains aren't yet evolved enough to perceive all aspects of our reality.

Live and let live; just make sure you're actually Living, not hiding from life.

Originally posted by prophetboy12
I will not even read your thread. with all of the s--t hitting the fan and the unrest, if you do not believe that we need more God then you are simply a fool. But that is your right.

Through chaos sir comes clarity...things have to unravel before they can be bound together once more...it is the cycle of life.

reply to post by Kastogere


You know, I really can't argue with that. Everything goes up and down. Sometimes, you have to lose your mind before you can find it, and you have to hit rock bottom before you can really start living.

What if we have to forget everything before we can really start learning?

reply to post by apushforenlightment

I did not know that Hinduism or Buddism was anti scientific

I don't know about Hinduism, but Buddhism is definitely NOT anti-scientific.

Having pointed that out, I suggest that those of you interested in exploring this subject further read the most excellent and lauded work by Robert Wright,
The Evolution of God
Here's a chunk of his intro (for those who haven't heard of it before, or are 'meh' about the idea he might present, or too lazy to check the book out and actually read it:

[I]n this book I talk about the history of religion, and its future, from a materialist standpoint. I think the origin and development of religion can be explained by reference to concrete, observable things—human nature, political and economic factors, technological change, and so on.

But I don’t think a “materialist” account of religion’s origin, history, and future—like the one I’m giving here—precludes the validity of a religious worldview. In fact, I contend that the history of religion presented in this book, materialist though it is, actually affirms the validity of a religious worldview;

not a traditionally religious worldview, but a worldview that is in some meaningful sense religious.

It sounds paradoxical. On the one hand, I think gods arose as illusions, and that the subsequent history of the idea of god is, in some sense, the evolution of an illusion. On the other hand:
(1) the story of this evolution itself points to the existence of something you can meaningfully call divinity; and
(2) the “illusion,” in the course of evolving, has gotten streamlined in a way that moved it closer to plausibility. In both of these senses, the illusion has gotten less and less illusory.

For now...the kind of god that remains plausible, after all this streamlining, is not the kind of god that most religious believers currently have in mind.

.. [H]istory is full of civilizations clashing, and for that matter, of civilizations not clashing. And the story of the role played by religious ideas—fanning the flames or dampening the flames, and often changing in the process—is instructive. I think it tells us what we can do to make the current “clash” more likely to have a happy ending.

The second aspect of the current world situation I’ll address is another kind of clash—the much-discussed “clash” between science and religion. Like the first kind of clash, this one has a long and instructive history. It can be traced at least as far back as ancient Babylon, where eclipses that had long been attributed to restless and malignant supernatural beings were suddenly found to occur at predictable intervals—predictable enough to make you wonder whether restless and malignant supernatural beings were really the problem.

There have been many such unsettling (from religion’s point of view) discoveries since then, but always some notion of the divine has survived the encounter with science. The notion has had to change, but that’s no indictment of religion.

After all, science has changed relentlessly, revising if not discarding old theories, and none of us think of that as an indictment of science. On the contrary, we think this ongoing adaptation is carrying science closer to the truth. Maybe the same thing is happening to religion. Maybe, in the end, a mercilessly scientific account of our predicament...is actually compatible with a truly religious worldview, and is part of the process that refines a religious worldview, moving it closer to truth.

These two big “clash” questions can be put into one sentence: Can religions in the modern world reconcile themselves to one another, and can they reconcile themselves to science? I think their history points to affirmative answers.
What would religions look like after such an adaptation? This question is surprisingly easy to answer, at least in broad outline.

First, they’ll have to address the challenges to human psychological well-being that are posed by the modern world. (Otherwise they won’t win acceptance.)

Second, they’ll have to highlight some “higher purpose”—some kind of larger point or pattern that we can use to help us orient our daily lives, recognize good and bad, and make sense of joy and suffering alike. (Otherwise they won’t be religions, at least not in the sense that I mean the word “religion.”)

Is there an intellectually honest worldview that truly qualifies as religious and can, amid the chaos of the current world, provide personal guidance and comfort—and maybe even make the world less chaotic?

I don’t claim to have the answers, but clear clues emerge naturally in the course of telling the story of God. So here goes.

Please, people, read this book.
OP, star and flag, and keep on looking!!!

Namaste

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Ilyich

 

I just want to clarify that there is a huge difference between religion and spirituality. You're talking about religion, you're not condemning spirituality itself, right?

Because while I agree that the factors that constitute a religion also contribute to the long list of temptations that eventually spoil the whole deal, I don't agree that spirituality should be dicarded simply because religion wore it as a mask.

Keep spirituality, quarantine religion. Let them do what they want, but keep them from infecting the rest of society with false ideas of spirit.

Yes, I am not in any instance bashing anyone for their spirituality, and in several earlier replies I have said I appreciate the replies, and respect everyone for their beliefs and rights to it. I don't have a whole lot of time to reply to everyone at the moment, but I will keep this short and sweet. I apologize that my approach seems rash, and even more so I apologize for those who can not appreciate the discussion evolving before all of us. I'm simply here to seek answers to questions I have, and see how many other like minded individuals would care to join, and any opposed would like to state why, and explain it to me. Thank you to everyone that has participated thus far, thank you all for reading, and thank you all for continuing discussions further!

I should be on later this night and I will try to get my 2 minutes with everyone, if you would like me to u2u the page of the reply so you can continue conversation with me, I'm more than happy to oblige.

I have to say that the fundamental problem with Religion -- any religion, is when you can get people to believe uncritically in nonsense, then you can get them to do anything.

Fascist regimes and tyrannies, spring up like mushrooms from fanatics and fundamentalists. Sure, everyone thinks THEIR religion is safe -- it's the other guys who have the issues. But people won't look out for their own interests, won't solve problems but hold charity events, as long as they look at the human condition as something to be endured and HOPE that heaven, or aliens, or some deus ex machina will make things better in the future or in the afterlife.

AS soon as people throw away the floatation device, they get serious about learning how to swim.

Make this life the best it can be for yourself and everyone else because it's all you know.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

What if we have to forget everything before we can really start learning?

See my sig, After.

Yes, we have to throw it all out and start with fresh eyes.

There's a difference between RELIGION and SPIRITUALITY and we all know religion is nothing more than politicics used to control and opress. It's just like manmade laws.....it's corrupt

reply to post by flexy123


It is obvious that you do not understand the connection between God and man. The goal is for the two to become the same. Before you put something down you need to understand what it means.

Religion prevents scientific advancement, we're just lucky that some of the great minds that got us where we are now were able to think critically and question the universe...

we are not lucky..there is great minds who believe in god..

I think that the problem isn't as much religion being a distraction from living this life, as it is the fact that this world is what drives some people to the sanctuary of religion in the first place. I look around, and I can't blame anyone for a minute for needing a source of hope and the reassurance of a place better than this one that will last for eternity. Add to that the philosophical theory that the physical world is just an illusion...

reply to post by kingkra


Amazing with all the scientific knowledge and we can't even make the simplest atoms combine to make rain. What does that tell you about the scientific intellect.

Have you ever wondered how the moon appears to have exactly the same size as the sun, and actually passes right in front of the sun and completely blocks out the sun from time to time, just so that we could notice this, and all of this is just by chance?

Science doesn't know.

All that science can tell us, is how long it takes from one eclipse to the next, because scientists have "measured" and "recorded" the details. But, who gave them this phenomenon to measure and record? Random events?

reply to post by NAMTERCES


Egyptians, Sumerians, Mayans, Aztecs, and a dozen other ancient civilizations that knew a lot of good math.

reply to post by Revealation


I disagree. That is not the inherent purpose of religion, that is only how WE have used religion. Religion is organized spirituality, and they have used organization to disguise some of their darker techniques.

reply to post by Ilyich


If you were to get rid of all todays religions tommorow, some hero would just replace it with something else anyway. the same could be said about democracy. most of the laws are ridiculous, is it time to foot the political system also? Would government become the new religion? If so, then this world would be more screwed than it was before.