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I think it's time for Religion to die.

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posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 03:45 AM
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I just wrote half of this and then deleted it so bear with me. I'm really frustrated with the Back key at this moment.



I believe we are coming into new times, as we all do. As much as this statement is an obvious one at that, time moves forward infinitely so of course we must be coming into a new time. Religion is the longest standing unconditional belief for many people. I can't help but realize how much of a problem it is, and how many problems it creates. Please with hold your comments until you have read the entire article, and anyone replying to the title alone will be ignored outright.

Religion instills in many people Morals, Lessons and beliefs. It is from Religion, many people structure their entire lives. How ever, I don't understand why Religion is necessary for any of this. I was taught by my parents right from wrong, good from bad, how to treat others, and myself. They taught me how to be a part of society, how to care for my friends, those around me and most of all how to be a man. I just don't see the necessity for religion. It's a scape goat for many individuals in pretty much every situation life has to offer. I'm sure after I right this very post some will come in quoting scripture, and then they will have to explain why it is relevant, and pull a message out of it that is less than obvious, and this is supposed to justify both my post and everything we experience in life.

You see my number one problem with religion, is everything and everyone is a creation of god. The same old dying words, " The lord works in mysterious ways." Rings, over and over, whether it be a child born who wasn't supposed to survive, or a tornado that uproots the homes and lives of thousands in an instant. I'm tired of the excuse, " It's gods way, " and " This is how the lord made me." Even more than this, I'm tired of the Anti-God, being blamed for all the negative aspects to human beings. For instance, a man murders, a woman cheats, a pope molests a child and we here " Oh they succumbed to the temptations of the Devil." Isn't this complete nonsense to anyone else? Isn't this fairy tale a little out dated?

You see, what I'm going to get at here, is what does religion do that any of us can do without it? We all stopped believing in Santa, the Easter bunny and Tooth Fairy long ago, why do we perpetuate the story of Religion? Please don't give me the look around you, God is everywhere line, because I don't see him. I see Nature, Chemistry, Biology, but no supreme being at the controls of it all. God, The Devil and religion are excuses, and extraordinary explanations for things some people do not, or can not understand. It's much easier to tell a child, when asked why the sky is blue " That's the way god made it." Then to have to know the answer, and break it down in a manner that they can understand. It's blanket statement that really doesn't apply to any of it, and the number one argument for God created Everything is that we can not prove he didn't. Isn't the statement Innocent until proven guilty? Didn't happen until it's proven to have happened? Where is the proof god did it? Just because we and everything else is here doesn't mean he did it. We have found in more ways than not scientific evidence to support god didn't do things. That scientifically things can be explained and rationalized. In such an advanced society where does god Fit?


Okay, I have to stop with that angle because I can go on for hours about not seeing God in everything. I see amazing Natural occurrences but at the hands of Nature not god.

Religion, in and itself creates more problems that it solves, and I will tell you why I believe this to be the case. The ideal, that when we die, believing, loving, and obedient to god we get to go to heaven removes a sense of responsibility and care from our lives. This notion, that no matter what god has our backs, prevents many individuals from truly doing everything in their powers to take care of themselves. As well this notion, that all the evil in the world is the work of a devil is even worse. Again, we take the responsibility away from man, and place it on a fictional character. Religions card up the sleeve for this is the idea of hell. If you disobey, or do not devote yourself to god, you will be punished for eternity. No, I'm sorry it doesn't fly. I'm all for the idea that after life there is something, but again this in itself has enormous amounts of recoil.

The concept that there is something after death, removes the importance of life. Humans, act crazy and reckless because it's been imprinted since birth that when they die they will move on to a glorious paradise, and never have to worry about their earthly woes. This is the same tactic used on suicide bombers, " When you die, fighting for your people and mighty god, you will be rewarded in paradise with 70 virgins." Sounds pretty good right? You're not going to feel the explosion, it will be over in a fraction of a second and you will move on to a world that makes this one look like KFC.

Now do not get me wrong, I am an absolute believer there is something after death. How ever I do not think anyone realizes what it actually is. It's not Heaven, purgatory, or hell.. Though I'm sure you could convince yourself of exactly that. Much as many walking this Earth, believe this very thing about the place we currently reside. After this Life, you will move on to something else. How much it resembles this life I could not begin to know or explain, but that's the problem. No one that has been there or is there has been successful in coming back to tell us. It's becoming well thought with in various communities, scientific and spiritual that many dimensions/worlds likely exist in the very same location. They are all there in harmony completely oblivious to the other. So if this is really the case perhaps somewhere up there, there could be a being that resembles an all knowing being, but not because he/she/it controls all that is, but because this being has experienced all that has come before, much like Nirvana the buddhists refer to. I suppose the buddhist Ideal of reincarnation fits into this as well, just perhaps not in the sense we know it.


I know much of what I have said here has been thought of by many before me, and I'm sure much more of it will be picked apart and disagreed with by many(or all) religious individuals. I'm simply looking for discussion, prove me wrong, help prove my point, describe your thoughts and feelings.

How ever if you are going to skim, reply to the title alone, or quote scripture do not bother as I will ignore you outright. I'm after Intelligent, logical, critical discussion. So please if you can provide me with any or all of the aforementioned I will be waiting with open arms.




posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 03:59 AM
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I do not know what god is, but I know what he isn't.

Maybe what you really want is for religion to evolve into a more appropriate pardigm. 90% of the world believes in a deity and that will never go away.

Maybe what needs to happen is to join religion with science officially as it was orginally in the early times before the church. You see...the belief in god itself lends credence to science as if it didn't science wouldnt exist. At least not in the form we think about it. If some form of religion didn't come about with early mans desire to answer the question where are we from.....astrology would have not formed as quick as it did.

I mean really...one augments the other in some fashion you cannot just dismiss one because of programmed human behavior that has occured over time due to societal decree brought on from another mortal being.

Religion like much else on this planet is not now what it was meant to be and is severly broken.

In the end as well with science as religion....you have to have faith that the unseen answers to humanity will eventually be served in simplicity. Whether science or religion delivers that should make no difference if the answer presents itself.

You are speaking more along the lines of human programming I think rather than the throes and discord that religion is caused. If you really want to get to the bottom of the idea, you have to get to the root of the problem.

Which in this case would be mankind in general and the dogma he creates to keep people in line.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by Ilyich
 


I think you are correct, however I follow a philosophy based on cause-and-effect (which teaches about healthy and unhealthy moral choices but does not judge, it simply shows people that it is in their best interest to make healthy choices) and believe in some aspects of spirituality such as free will, altruism, karma and the afterlife.

I don't want to see these values of mine attacked. I feel they are aspects of the true God, which organized religions in a lot of cases have lost touch with (especially in America, wtf)

To me, God works through science, and he would want people to make healthy choices for themselves and others, and to understand the universe, and to reach their full potential. Although he also gives us free will so that we can learn from our mistakes and be able to grow from our experiences.

I will make the bold claim that the Church is not following the will of God, that is what I think.
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posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 04:22 AM
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lol


edit on 7/30/2012 by Turq1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 04:29 AM
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Well this is what happens when the blind (who are not able to achive Gnosis) preaches how you should achive gnosis. There is spiritual knowledge that can be found in Jesus and Buddhas teaching and Bhagavad Gita and Toltec New age to name a few sources that can help a person that is willing to question his/her own mind/ego/conditioning to find something more/connect to something more. The problem is not really with the knowledge but with the people not understanding it and just creating dualitydriven views where their ego is right and everyone else is wrong. I do not practice religon but I do enjoy the ideals and experiances that are written by people that have experianced gnosis and become a little more than humans in understanding. But then there is a thin line between crazy and genious and I have seen people that we describe as crazy but in fact know to much and cannot handle human smallmindedness anymore.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 04:38 AM
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Religion prevents scientific advancement, we're just lucky that some of the great minds that got us where we are now were able to think critically and question the universe. Eventually we will move on as a race and people will let go of old beliefs that were created when we understood nothing about our origin or the world around us, but that won't be for some time. People won't even accept evolution, largely due to complete misunderstanding of the process and how it happens, so there's no hope of moving on from the fairy tales holding us back.

I'm not religious as you probably guessed, yet I'm fairly sure I don't break any of the ten commandments, which shows you don't need religion to teach you moral values and how to leave a peaceful happy life. When I look at it like that it makes all the stories seem very redundant.
edit on 30-7-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 04:39 AM
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A part of me wants to disagree. Religion does bring a lot of good into the world and gives some people a reason to keep living. However, at the same time, I think it is ridiculous that so many people need a reason like God to do good. Also, I don't think the amount of good religion brings to the world is enough to outweigh the bad. It gives too many people an excuse for their hatred.
Personally, I believe that people should focus more on living. You should focus on bringing good and happiness to others...just because it is the right thing to do. Not because a book tells you to or because you want to get into Heaven. They should quit worrying about what might be encountered after they die. We will all figure it out one day...and ya know what? If there is a God...I think he would be okay with that. If not...I don't think I'm that interested in any sort of "Heaven".



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by SpearMint
 


Yes and No,

In the days of old religion and science went hand in hand as one created the other believe it or not. Again you cannot dismiss one because in todays world it doesnt vibe with the other.

But you are right in many ways as far as how people should evolve.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 04:57 AM
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Originally posted by Kastogere
reply to post by SpearMint
 


Yes and No,

In the days of old religion and science went hand in hand as one created the other believe it or not. Again you cannot dismiss one because in todays world it doesnt vibe with the other.

But you are right in many ways as far as how people should evolve.


They certainly didn't, science scared them. Galileo Galilei was force to spend the last 9 years of his life under house arrest because he discovered moons orbiting Jupiter, which proved the current belief that everything orbited Earth to be wrong. That was around 1610, it's got better with time, not worse.
edit on 30-7-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:11 AM
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reply to post by SpearMint
 


Im speaking of before the church was officially established, think further back to the more pagan type of being. The current church we have now is still dogmatic in nature, so while it has gotten better, it is still a seperate entity from what it used to represent in its origins.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by Kastogere
reply to post by SpearMint
 


Im speaking of before the church was officially established, think further back to the more pagan type of being. The current church we have now is still dogmatic in nature, so while it has gotten better, it is still a seperate entity from what it used to represent in its origins.


So when no one really studied science, at least not in that culture. They never went hand in hand, it wouldn't make sense.
edit on 30-7-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by SpearMint
 


Ah but they did, just in a more primitive form like alchemy and astrology. The myans were a prime example of this as were the aztec and eygptians and the chinese and the african tribes of old.

They had their root knowledge that embraced what is now science and religion combined. Either or would not have fostered in growth had this not been the case.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 06:09 AM
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Yes Religion does such things, but Religion cannot be backed if its not integrated with culture. Culture is the real culprit to your ranting and dislike of religion. A thing like Science vs Religion, creates the duality in which modern culture dwells upon. Now that you are seeing the naturalistic point of view of the nature of life, you dislike the religious perspective. Strip your self of both of those social dualistic way of thought, you are an independent being of thought. Simply focusing on the reason why religion is false and the scientific way is correct still puts you on the duality of social thought.

These are my thoughts to your post. For I am a believer that yin cannot live without yang, as science cannot live without religious or spiritual doctrines. Rationality may prove to you and other people on this site as a way of understanding. But rationality cannot be there without feelings, as a waterfall cannot be there without water. Living in a paradoxical universe is tricky, being infatuated with those two ways of thoughts puts you switching sides or clueless.

Thought of neither yin or yang, science or religion, rationality or intuition. Is my answer to your hatred towards religion. My answer to you is thinking like the universe(self-contradictory) makes you understand why both of these must exist.
edit on 30-7-2012 by SparkOfSparks6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by SpearMint
Religion prevents scientific advancement, we're just lucky that some of the great minds that got us where we are now were able to think critically and question the universe. Eventually we will move on as a race and people will let go of old beliefs that were created when we understood nothing about our origin or the world around us, but that won't be for some time. People won't even accept evolution, largely due to complete misunderstanding of the process and how it happens, so there's no hope of moving on from the fairy tales holding us back.

I'm not religious as you probably guessed, yet I'm fairly sure I don't break any of the ten commandments, which shows you don't need religion to teach you moral values and how to leave a peaceful happy life. When I look at it like that it makes all the stories seem very redundant.
edit on 30-7-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)


I did not know that Hinduism or Buddism was anti scientific. But then sometimes Science seem to be dogmatic and just another duality view also since some of the scientist are not openminded to things that are very outside of their perception. I do not really care if god split his parts up in a big bang or created us some other way. I think he uses evolution to change us but I do think it is by design and not random. I have been allowed to see order in what man call chaos. Just because the order goes above my/our understanding does not mean it is not there. Once you have seen synchronicity answers from the other side then you have a hard time ignoring them.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by Ilyich
 


you didnt get the right response on project avalon so you think you will try ats for some old ego points?
good on you or how we say it from where i come from " yeahhhh, goodonya"

if your frustrated with religion theyve done the right job
yumyum



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by Ilyich
...Please with hold your comments until you have read the entire article, and anyone replying to the title alone will be ignored outright.


Until they "read the entire article"??
[color=cyan]Religious folks are TOO LAZY to read their OWN religious articles thoroughly, so how do you expect them to read this "entire article?


Good article though. Too bad they wont read it and use their OWN MINDS to think about it. And of course the silly fictional bible verses will make it here to this thread which is the ONLY thing they have to support their silliness. Its like "proving" the existence of Santa Claus by quoting a Christmas book!


Religion MUST GO. It is way more DANGEROUS than good and those of us who dont buy into these fairy-tales are getting sick of the DANGERS and PROBLEMS that religion is causing in this world!!!!






edit on 30-7-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by SpearMint
Religion prevents scientific advancement, we're just lucky that some of the great minds that got us where we are now were able to think critically and question the universe. Eventually we will move on as a race and people will let go of old beliefs that were created when we understood nothing about our origin or the world around us, but that won't be for some time. People won't even accept evolution, largely due to complete misunderstanding of the process and how it happens, so there's no hope of moving on from the fairy tales holding us back.

I'm not religious as you probably guessed, yet I'm fairly sure I don't break any of the ten commandments, which shows you don't need religion to teach you moral values and how to leave a peaceful happy life. When I look at it like that it makes all the stories seem very redundant.
edit on 30-7-2012 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)


I did not know that Hinduism or Buddism was anti scientific. But then sometimes Science seem to be dogmatic and just another duality view also since some of the scientist are not openminded to things that are very outside of their perception. I do not really care if god split his parts up in a big bang or created us some other way. I think he uses evolution to change us but I do think it is by design and not random. I have been allowed to see order in what man call chaos. Just because the order goes above my/our understanding does not mean it is not there. Once you have seen synchronicity answers from the other side then you have a hard time ignoring them.


I'm talking about creationism religions, mainly Christianity.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by Ilyich
 


You should read Hitchens, Stenger (generally the new atheists) and a few of the counter arguments I think as they've been done over and over again in academic settings.

If you haven't already, its good to familiarize yourself with the core arguments.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 07:41 AM
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reply to post by Ilyich
 


Very well-written. You have many of the same thoughts I've had, and I have come to my own conclusions about man's need to pit "good" (God) against "evil" (Devil), so he can come down on the side of "good" and feel more secure about his future and the death that he knows is approaching. Religion is a fear-based belief. We are afraid of death, so we created God in our image and a story around "him" that makes us feel more secure and cozy about living life on the side of "good" so we'll get our reward at the end. It's a control mechanism, JUST like Santa is for little kids. Be good, and when he comes, you'll get rewarded for your goodness.

We (human beings) have this innate "need" to find out how things work - and how life works is one of our biggest mysteries. We have a need to nail down the laws of life; where we come from, why we're here, and what happens after this life (as if ANY of us could possibly know with the information available to us currently)... Maybe some day, we will know, but I kind of doubt it.

I used to say that I'm a "spiritual atheist", because I believed in life after death. I'm not so sure now... Over the years, I've let go of the religious teachings and the fears I was indoctrinated with as a child and young adult. And "something after death" is the last one that I have held onto. But recently, I find it harder and harder to convince myself that I have reason for continuing to believe that something survives this physical body.

More and more, I see our species as just another animal - some say more "advanced" than other animals, but based on results, I'm not at all sure about that, either.

How many other species of animal arrange wars to kill others of their species because of differing beliefs? Sure, they fight for territory and survival (as we do) but how many animals kill others because of hatred or insecurity, as we have over the years? If a man attacks a lion, the lion will kill the man, and then stop. If a lion attacks a man, the men all get together and go out and kill ALL the lions they can find... It's like a vengeance born of insecurity. It's really pretty sick.

How many other species of animal work diligently to "advance", even to the point of literally destroying their own environment and that of the other animals, in the name of this "advancement"? It makes no sense to me. We live in the past and the future, because it makes us feel like we have more control than we actually do. How many dolphins blatantly destroy the water in which they live? It seems to me the non-human animals of the world would do a lot better with their survival than we're doing with ours, in our quest to "advance". But what are we "advancing" toward? If we look around, all I can see is that we are moving quickly and steadily toward our own demise, and that of the other animals.

So, I don't have a lot of faith (if you will) in the idea that we humans are here for a "good" reason or that we're somehow "above" the other animals because of our intelligence. In fact, when I observe our history, and project our future, I'm pretty sure that the other animals would be doing a LOT better here without the crap we've developed to muck up the world. Our technological advancements don't impress me much because look at what we've done to ourselves. On the current path, we're going to pollute this world until it's unlivable for man or beast. We're eating and breathing toxic chemicals daily, at our own hand, and we KNOW it! Yet, we do it...

I don't really know much at all, but these are some of my thoughts. Religion is a simplistic way to explain where we came from, why we're here and where we're going. We really have no clue of any of it... Every other animal dies and returns to the Earth. And that is the reason we need religion. To feel "special" and apart from the animals that just die and are no more. That's too scary for most of us. So, we hold onto the belief that something comes after... Why would something come after? It's makes no more logical sense than anything else we believe.

Fear is the main reason we latch onto religion. And letting go of our fears, one by one, is something that motivates ME every day. The more I let go of fear, the more free and secure I feel. Is it Time for Religion to Die? I have no clue. But I let go of it a while ago and I am a much better person for it. I have more respect for other people, more compassion and less judgment. My desire to "do the right thing" is stronger than ever. And it's not because the big bad is watching over me or in anticipation of some imagined reward. It's just my free choice.



posted on Jul, 30 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by Ilyich
 

Good read. I starred you for content, and as I said, I appreciate the time and effort that obviously went into that. I too would like to see an end to the Book Religions, Christianity and Islam, for I sincerely believe a great deal of Warfare, and Tribal and Economic conflicts could be stopped..... if not for religious beliefs. I believe all forms of mind control should be stopped. Human Beings are evolving fast right now, and we are all getting ready for the next step, as it were.
One must ask themselves, what does religion provide for me? Are my prayers answered, or ignored? Does God talk to me, or is it just my inner voice speaking, telling me what I want to hear? Do I really believe the fables my pastor preaches about? Am I afraid?
Some may need religion, and something bigger than they, but all do not.




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