Obama: Our Enemy and the Instigator of Unrest

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posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
The battle between collectivists and individualists has existed for sometime now and Obama didn't invent it, he is merely carrying the banner for the collectivists in this country at this time. He does, however, have as much right to free speech as any person does and it should never have surprised anyone that he was a collectivist. I think perhaps the primary problem that exists today in the battle between collectivism and individualism is that individualists don't generally run for public office, nor do the regularly engage in propaganda for some individualist type movement as such a notion would be antithetical to the principles of individualism.


To be honest I didn't take an active interest in American politics until 9/11, so some things did come to me as a surprise. He does have the right to free speech, as do I or anyone else. He is free to say anything he wants and I am free to dislike it. My beef with him is that as OUR President, he is supposed to represent all of us instead of trying to separate us and get us to fight each other. I suppose I would consider myself an individualist, but I recognize the need for harmony between racial, social, cultural and religious groups. Instead of promoting division he should be promoting the idea that while we have many differences, we need each other and need to work together for the good of the whole instead of the good of a group. He should be pointing out our similarities instead of our differences. Each person serves his/her purpose and is necessary for the whole organism to function in a healthy way. You can be an individualist and still follow the laws of the land so that everyone around you can enjoy the same freedoms you are enjoying, know what I mean? I'm sure you do.



The individualist will see through collectivist propaganda and indoctrination. They are not the ones who easily fall prey to collectivist indoctrination. Individualists are not known as followers. Followers look for a leader to follow and Obama foots the bill for many followers. Individuals tend to build businesses and enterprise, followers tend to work for those individuals. There are more followers than there are leaders in this regard. The collectivist leader understands it is a numbers game. This is why "democracy" is so admired and vaunted in American politics, it is a tool for collectivists and they want their followers to believe that their numbers can justify any action at any time as long as the "majority" is in agreement on the action and time.


I don't see anything here I disagree with.




posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by Wildmanimal
 

Of course, businesses benefit from infastructure but without the revenue created by businesses and the people they employ there would be no government as we know it.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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It would appear that Mitt Romney agrees with the sentiment!

Vid of Romney saying the same thing

Here's what Romney said in a speech not long after...



"There are a lot of people in government who help us and allow us to have an economy that works and allow entrepreneurs and business leaders of various kinds to start businesses and create jobs. We all recognize that. That's an important thing.... I know that you recognize that a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the banks, the investors. There's no question your mom and dad. Your school teachers. The people that provide roads, the fire, and the police. A lot of people help."


Even Romney says something truthful once in awhile...



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by theplu
It would appear that Mitt Romney agrees with the sentiment!

Vid of Romney saying the same thing

Here's what Romney said in a speech not long after...



"There are a lot of people in government who help us and allow us to have an economy that works and allow entrepreneurs and business leaders of various kinds to start businesses and create jobs. We all recognize that. That's an important thing.... I know that you recognize that a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the banks, the investors. There's no question your mom and dad. Your school teachers. The people that provide roads, the fire, and the police. A lot of people help."


Even Romney says something truthful once in awhile...


Yeah... he's an idiot too. He'll say anything if you pay him enough.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by Aninonymous
 


I was a VFX artist on major motion pictures up until this past May when I was told that I could keep my job if I moved to Canada. The government didn't send my job away from the US... The Hollywood studios forced it out of the country so they can get rebates from the Canadian government. Jobs do not exist just to make employees happy. Your Utopian vision assumes that business owners give a crap about the people who do the work. Most don't.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by theplu
 

Nobody with sense is arguing that government doesn't play a role in creating an atmosphere in which businesses may thrive. I find it interesting though, that those that say Obama's statement was taken taken out of context fail to include the most condescending part of the statement( in my opinion) while providing this context. Obama:"I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there." So why don't all these other smart, hardworking people create successful businesses? Because it also takes risk, vision, innovation and tenacity (among other things) to create a business model that succeeds. This is obviously just my opinion but I think it is a widely held one. Speaking of context, you may want to watch that Romney speech that Maddow posted in its entirety.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by glasshouse
 
Here you go. I did the work for you.
youtu.be...
edit on 07/27/12 by glasshouse because: I'm computer illiterate



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by theplu
reply to post by Aninonymous
 


I was a VFX artist on major motion pictures up until this past May when I was told that I could keep my job if I moved to Canada. The government didn't send my job away from the US... The Hollywood studios forced it out of the country so they can get rebates from the Canadian government. Jobs do not exist just to make employees happy. Your Utopian vision assumes that business owners give a crap about the people who do the work. Most don't.


Pardon me for getting in the middle of this, but it is not the job of the Government to give you or force companies to keep jobs here. It's the Government's job to create a business-friendly environment and let business do as it chooses so long as it obeys the laws. Sorry about your job, but that's just part of life. And no, most jobs don't exist just to make employees happy. Obviously the goal of business is to bring a product to the market that everyone can benefit from, including the business owner. If I can't benefit from starting a business and I can't feed my family doing it, what's the point of starting it in the first place? To make everyone else happy? I guess that's great but I'm going to have to be rewarded in more way than just the smile on your face if I want me and my family to survive. For the sacrifices I make to run that business successfully I might need more than just enough to get by. I want a little luxury to ease my days when I'm not killing myself trying to make that business work. If I expand the business, I get to employ more people and yes, I might make more money....but..... what's wrong with that?

By the way, don't you ever wonder why so many immigrants come to the U.S.??? It's because their countries are not providing a business-friendly and/or employee-friendly environment! They are forced to uproot their entire families to find jobs, learn new languages and assimilate to a completely different culture. It's what my family did twice now. A lot of Americans have NEVER had to immigrate anywhere to look for jobs. Guess what.... get used to it. Government is NOT your savior. It is NOT there to guarantee you anything and should never promise to do so. Industrious, hard-working, smart people are the only people you should look to for saving you. You could be one of those people if you figure out a way to start your own business.....provided that current Government regulations, fees and inspections don't kill it before you even get started.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


I am trying to start my own business so I don't have to chase my job around anymore. I'm fairly certain that within 5-10 years, Canada will fall out of favor for my industry and then it's on to Singapore where companies are already starting up. Perhaps I would have gone to Canada if the location wasn't THE most expensive city in North America. Also, the company that I worked for doesn't get any benefit from moving up there. They are being forced to do so by the studios who do get the benefit. If the VFX facilities want to play the game, they do what the studios tell them to. But since most movies these days are VFX heavy, you would think the people doing the work would hold all the cards. It makes no sense.

I never said that it's the government's job to keep me employed. I was responding to another poster's Utopian vision that included people making TV shows and movies working just for the love of the work. The artists and programmers in the VFX and animation industries do love their work... To the point where it is difficult to impossible to have any kind of normal life outside of work. But there comes a time in life where just working all the time isn't enough. It's not enough for me, as a human being and it apparently isn't enough to the company either. My point was that companies don't employ people out of the goodness of their hearts. They create jobs out of necessity. But if there is no one left who can afford the product or service they're selling, then sales go down and companies have to find other ways to keep their profits going which means to cut back from employees. It's a pretty vicious cycle that is getting us nowhere but down the tubes. It's the race to the bottom. I personally would prefer to live in a country where If I work hard (and believe me, I do and always have), I am rewarded for it. Instead we Americans seem to no longer serve the purpose as we're too expensive. By the way, you mentioned a system in which government creates a welcoming environment for companies to do business. Well, how would you feel if your tax dollars were going to Hollywood studios to entice them to do business here instead of abroad? That is what is happening in this business right now. You seem to favor lesser regulations and whatnot but that's not always what is meant by "a welcoming environment".



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by theplu
reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


I am trying to start my own business so I don't have to chase my job around anymore. I'm fairly certain that within 5-10 years, Canada will fall out of favor for my industry and then it's on to Singapore where companies are already starting up. Perhaps I would have gone to Canada if the location wasn't THE most expensive city in North America. Also, the company that I worked for doesn't get any benefit from moving up there. They are being forced to do so by the studios who do get the benefit. If the VFX facilities want to play the game, they do what the studios tell them to. But since most movies these days are VFX heavy, you would think the people doing the work would hold all the cards. It makes no sense.


Unfortunately America has competition in the world. I believe the last time I looked it was 4th or 5th on the list of business-friendly countries around the world. If we go State by State, California is probably second or third to last on the list of business-friendly States. There are Governments who are willing to give businesses more breaks. In return those companies move to Singapore for example, and employ their citizens and maybe a few of their own people who move to Singapore with the job. Of course it's not always about a business-friendly environment. Sometimes it's just plain politics, bribery and corruption. VFX facilities will move to a location where they will find cheaper but also educated labor. You're probably very good at what you do, but there are thousands of people out there who may be able to do the job just as well as you do, for less. You're forced to ask for more money because the cost of living here is unbelievable. Someone somewhere else in the world is used to a lot less luxury and due to a lower cost of living can afford to take in less money. He gets the job.

Someday when most jobs have moved out of the States and abroad, cost of living will drop to entice people to stay, and California might actually beg businesses to move back in. Californians will thrive again someday, but if it keeps going the way it has been for the past few years, it's going to continue to go down hill.

Americans are lucky in one respect.... they speak English. You can go almost anywhere in the world and know that someone will speak your language. In fact they need English-speakers out there. I hope your business works out and you do well, but if it doesn't, consider that now the time has come when Americans start immigrating to find work around the world.



I never said that it's the government's job to keep me employed. I was responding to another poster's Utopian vision that included people making TV shows and movies working just for the love of the work. The artists and programmers in the VFX and animation industries do love their work... To the point where it is difficult to impossible to have any kind of normal life outside of work. But there comes a time in life where just working all the time isn't enough. It's not enough for me, as a human being and it apparently isn't enough to the company either. My point was that companies don't employ people out of the goodness of their hearts. They create jobs out of necessity. But if there is no one left who can afford the product or service they're selling, then sales go down and companies have to find other ways to keep their profits going which means to cut back from employees. It's a pretty vicious cycle that is getting us nowhere but down the tubes. It's the race to the bottom.


Seems to me you understand what's going on. California knows that Hollywood generates a lot of revenue. What are they supposed to do? It would be more profitable for Hollywood to move the hell outta here, but if California continues to give them money to make it just as profitable to stay here, then that's what it will do. A lot of people here would lose their jobs if it moved someplace else. Do I agree with what California is doing? No, I don't like what they're doing. I feel that if only they provided a better environment to conduct business here, they wouldn't have to bribe anyone to stay. Our sales tax is huge, property taxes are huge, places like L.A. County request crazy percentages from local businesses whether or not they make any profits that year, and as far as their spending goes, it's out of control. They can't balance a budget if their life depended on it. It's no wonder taxes are so high, they're on the verge of bankruptcy.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Obama our enemy?

Was that a typo? Did you mean to say OSAMA our enemy?
OUR DEAD enemy?
The end to the war on terror came almost too late for our morale and all sorts of things far more valuable than worrying about taxes and being rich or poor...whatever.

That dark and gloomy specter that hung over all of our heads, rich or poor alike...known by most as TERRORISM or AL QAEDA....is gone now and despite the true terrorist's best efforts to put something there in that space....appears to be effectively and permanently REMOVED.

Funny how you don't notice those kinds of things once they are gone...even the worst pain is forgotten pretty soon after it is no longer felt.

Maybe we'd be better off in that constant state of terror we used to be in for those ten years...not much worrying about taxes when you are afraid to fly to Grandma's for Thanksgiving, eh?

We are FREE...free from the terrorists that hid behind Osama bin Laden's corpse for ten years, wearing us down like as if we were the ones being protected from a threat that was no longer a threat as soon as it manifested...

I will say that it was, imo and to the best of my knowledge from investigating and etc., that it was a straight up lie about Osama bin Laden being killed last year...you can't kill a dead man and men on dialysis do not live for a decade hiding out in caves...but it really doesn't matter...all that matters is that the shadow is no longer over our heads...we are returning to what we were meant to be...citizens of a country declared the land of the free and the home of the brave. Our president is a pretty brave guy, all things considered.

But it doesn't matter...our President knew what we needed FIRST of all and MORE than anything else...before we could start to hope we had to be released from that fear.

No one else had the balls to do what he did...and no one can un-do it...not ever. They are still trying even with those stupid Romney comments about the UK security...there is no more threat to us....it was never foreign factions, anyway.

Americans React to Osama bin Laden's Death

Tell me this is how an enemy makes people feel? Like dancing in the street?

The rest is detail, really.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


I appreciate your very civil response. Talking politics on an Internet forum can get really ugly sometimes.


I guess I just don't really understand why so many people seem to be throwing up their hands and saying "oh we'll. We live in a global economy so your job will eventually leave. Deal with it." Shouldn't we be coming up with ways (other than to let multi-national corporations pollute our air and water and steal our wealth) to get our economic engine running again?!



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by 2manyquestions
"Government invented the internet, they put in the research so businesses then could make money off it".... ummm....... Government didn't invent a damned thing. A few smart, hard-working, industrious people invented the internet


You are right that government didn't invent the internet but you are wrong to say that anyone else invented it. The internet is basically daisy-chained computers, each one having an individual address so they can communicate. There are three ways to communicate digitally: 1. Digital broadcast like over the air television. 2. point to point like a modem to a computer. or 3. computers daisy chained together, each one with their own address.

Nobody invented that, it is a fact of nature and is obvious to anyone who even lightly skims over the subject. What is required to make it useful is to make sure everyone communicates the same way. This was done by the government and government funded institutions simply because its very nature of non-competitive standardization, there is no money to be made. Al Gore deserves the credit he claimed in the famous quote:

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

I don't see the word invent anywhere in that quote.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by 2manyquestions
Then Obama comes in and says "Government invented the internet, they put in the research so businesses then could make money off it".... ummm.......


.... ummm....... no, Obama didn't say that:
Pres. Obama, July 13, Roanoke Va:
“The Internet didn’t get invented on its own,” Obama said. “Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”

So you are lying about what Obama says than you tell us how indignant you are over what he said.

So, trash this thread to the Blatantly Political bin , marked G.O.P.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Anyone with half a brain could tell with all the promises he made during his campaign it was all BS, Clinton did the same thing.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by theplu
reply to post by Aninonymous
 


I was a VFX artist on major motion pictures up until this past May when I was told that I could keep my job if I moved to Canada. The government didn't send my job away from the US... The Hollywood studios forced it out of the country so they can get rebates from the Canadian government. Jobs do not exist just to make employees happy. Your Utopian vision assumes that business owners give a crap about the people who do the work. Most don't.


I feel what you're saying... however... that move was for what? $$$$
The only reason people are exploited today is for $$$ which = power.
Take away the money, replace it with necessities, and you take away the reasoning to exploit...



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Let's get to the point here. You are a liar and a shill. Those "I was hopeful" or "I used to be a Dem" posts are so transparent.

You are nothing but a TeaBag . . . something of which not to be proud.

The enemy of America, the dying enemy of America, is Conservatism. I have one word for you .. demographics. =) TeaBags will never be permitted to run America. Conservatism is dying. YOU are the enemy and will be so treted.

And . .. no . .. no one built a business all by themselves. Absolutely NO ONE.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by FeatherofMaat
reply to post by 2manyquestions
 


Let's get to the point here. You are a liar and a shill. Those "I was hopeful" or "I used to be a Dem" posts are so transparent.

You are nothing but a TeaBag . . . something of which not to be proud.

The enemy of America, the dying enemy of America, is Conservatism. I have one word for you .. demographics. =) TeaBags will never be permitted to run America. Conservatism is dying. YOU are the enemy and will be so treted.

And . .. no . .. no one built a business all by themselves. Absolutely NO ONE.


reply to post by MidnightTide
 



Just watch this thread, those lefties can't help but out themselves.


That didn't take long did it



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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no one built a business all by themselves. Absolutely NO ONE.


NO, but they lie and say they did so they can have an excuse to try to keep everyone else from having any assistance because they're lying, greedy, scumbags that don't give a damn about their society.



posted on Jul, 28 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by 2manyquestions
 



Yes, after the indefinite detention and his recent Gun grabbing remarks I agree Obama needs to go! On that note though I do not want Romney, the fact that Netanyahu and Romney were best of buds back in the 70's is enough for me to cry foul! If I am able I will pen in Ron Paul, or vote independent. I will never cast a vote for either of these two!

God, lets pray Ron Paul runs as an independent! Tired of watching our civil liberties trashed, I am tired of a country where saying anything anti Semitic will get you blacklisted (Destroyed). I am tired of serving any but our own countrymen! It has gotten so bad that anytime anything happens I first look to see if it was possible that it was a lie or carried out by covert Government crap! It is a horrible state of affairs when public lynching's seem in order!

Just keep this in mind. Had the Jews of Nazi Germany been well armed the holocaust never would have happened! If any ever came for you or your family which could happen. Would you like to be defenseless? Buy all the parts kits, assault weapons, armor and ammunition you can folks! Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!
edit on 28-7-2012 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)





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