World leaders promoting tolerance; but what do you really know about Islam?, page 4

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 39 times

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 11:35 AM by FlyInTheOintment

reply to post by seethetruth

Quote me the quotes from your Koran, and I will do some further research to try and understand the discrepancies. I overlooked your post before as I was involved in a debate with someone else - I was not avoiding the question.

You really do need to make a point of posting your quotes though. As mentioned above, I'm taking a time-out from the thread, but will come back and try to address your points later. If I'm wrong, I will post an apology and a redaction of my assessment. One thing is clear though. The institutionalized brutality of Islam is not in question. The evidence is available in almost every nation of Earth. In their defence, they claim that such brutality is allowable and even a commandment within the pages of the Koran. Therefore, who is using the correct interpretation?

One last question. Why is it legal within Islam to have intercourse with a girl at least as young as nine years old?

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 12:07 PM by CoolerAbdullah786

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

Ever single verse you quoted in the OP is taken out of context. The Qur'an was actively revealed to the Prophet (saws) during his lifetime and was a lot of times revealed based on events which happened. None of those verses that speak of "declaring war" are timeless suggestions. Muslims are only permitted to defend themselves, not to be the aggressors (as it says in the Quran chapter 2 verse 191 which you ignored completely).

This will be my only response to this thread because clearly it was devised by someone who, despite their "polite tone" seeks nothing more than to attack and slander Islam. The OP is not concerned with facts in the least bit and I suspect that the Quran verses they quoted were taken directly from an anti-Islam website.

If anyone has genuine questions about Islam then you can U2U me. I guarantee I am more of an Islamic scholar than FlyInTheOintment.

Peace be upon you

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 12:11 PM by My.mind.is.mine

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Piggy backing off CoolerAbdullah786,

I've made this argument for years on this site but there's always a new troll who speaks on what he doesn't know, or bother to understand. Wanna know about Islam? ASK A MUSLIM! There are at least 10 of us on ATS, all different types. I was raised sunni, and now practice sufism. I've studied with shi'a, and salafi muslims as well.

Instead, people wanna go to jihad watch and other openly ANTI-ISLAMIC sites as though they are being "balanced".

The Qur'an is very clear, and the problem with all of those verses is the OP excluded the verse BEFORE and the verse AFTER which put the verse in context, thus diffusing this shoe "muslims are murderers and islam is murderous" thing.

Wanna judge a billion people? READ THE WHOLE BOOK FIRST!

ETA: Not to mention the Qur'an never deemed Jews, Christians, Malpracticing muslims, or another group you mentioned as enemies of Islam, so you're blatantly lying...

Not to mention the fact that I'm a SUFI MUSLIM, so how then am I an enemy of Islam???? Geez..

edit on 25-7-2012 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 12:19 PM by CoolerAbdullah786

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

Alhumdulillah. As-salaam alaikum, brother. I'm a Sufi-practicing Muslim myself!

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 12:20 PM by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

Alhumdulillah. As-salaam alaikum, brother. I'm a Sufi-practicing Muslim myself!

Wa 'alaikum salaam. nooo sirrrr according to the OP we're enemies of Islam worth of death...

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 12:42 PM by CoolerAbdullah786

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

Yeah. Forgive me if I don't take his "scholarly word" on the matter

Oh and I will say that I take it as a slight compliment, him making this thread, trying to piggyback off the attention my thread was getting.

Too bad he used my thread's "fame" as another sorry excuse for someone to attack Islam

edit on 25-7-2012 by CoolerAbdullah786 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 01:03 PM by seethetruth

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

the qur'an that i have and looked at does not have the same verse at all like what he wrote does it say the same as he wrote in yours

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 01:14 PM by seethetruth

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by seethetruth

Quote me the quotes from your Koran, and I will do some further research to try and understand the discrepancies. I overlooked your post before as I was involved in a debate with someone else - I was not avoiding the question.

i did quote them to you in my other posts

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 01:34 PM by dthwraith

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by DeadSnow

Okay, well at least you are asking my opinion instead of claiming you already know. The Koran was the result of 'divine revelation' to Mohammed. He claimed that he was visited by the angel Gabriel over a period of 22 years, who dictated masses of material for him to record in memory, and which was later written down. It was not anything to do with Judaism or Christianity, though Mohammed had former contact with Jews when they jointly persecuted Christians, before the 'revelations' began.

You realize it's all the same God right?

It's called the Abrahamic Faiths for a reason you know.

~Tenth

No it's not and it never will be! If you want to think they are the same feel free to do so, but don't try to brain wash others into excepting that garbage!

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 01:35 PM by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by dthwraith

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by DeadSnow

Okay, well at least you are asking my opinion instead of claiming you already know. The Koran was the result of 'divine revelation' to Mohammed. He claimed that he was visited by the angel Gabriel over a period of 22 years, who dictated masses of material for him to record in memory, and which was later written down. It was not anything to do with Judaism or Christianity, though Mohammed had former contact with Jews when they jointly persecuted Christians, before the 'revelations' began.

You realize it's all the same God right?

It's called the Abrahamic Faiths for a reason you know.

~Tenth

No it's not and it never will be! If you want to think they are the same feel free to do so, but don't try to brain wash others into excepting that garbage!

Actually..... it is the same God...

Sincerely,
A muslim..

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:03 PM by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by dthwraith

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
reply to post by DeadSnow

Okay, well at least you are asking my opinion instead of claiming you already know. The Koran was the result of 'divine revelation' to Mohammed. He claimed that he was visited by the angel Gabriel over a period of 22 years, who dictated masses of material for him to record in memory, and which was later written down. It was not anything to do with Judaism or Christianity, though Mohammed had former contact with Jews when they jointly persecuted Christians, before the 'revelations' began.

You realize it's all the same God right?

It's called the Abrahamic Faiths for a reason you know.

~Tenth

No it's not and it never will be! If you want to think they are the same feel free to do so, but don't try to brain wash others into excepting that garbage!

Sure, I'm the brainwashed one...

Do your religious history research, read the scripture, not just the parts you agree with and maybe you'll learn something.

See what blind faith can do to a person?

~Tenth

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:12 PM by igor_ats

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
However, Islam in itself, in its literal and true form, is not a religion of peace. The scriptures of the Koran openly promote violence against all who are not Muslim, with explicit instructions regarding the need for ongoing conquest and subjection of all who are not in submission to Islam (in fact, 'Islam' literally means 'submission').

Islam is questionably not even a religion, as the word is properly understood. It is unique, in that it claims to be a totalitarian spiritual and materialistic revelation to Mankind. It is a total life-system, with its own political aims and its own judicial practices (Sharia law - for example, a woman who testifies that she has been raped can legitimately be stoned to death for adultery)... In the religious sense, God is claimed to be unknowable, and so prayer is not an intimate time of personal reflection, but is rather the repetition by rote en-masse of loosely fixed mantras.

Any deviation from the largely materialistic precepts laid out in the pages of the Koran is considered blasphemous. That is why hardline Muslims will quite often kill their more moderate counterparts. Moderate Muslims only succeed in being 'moderate', because they ignore the more hateful commands in the Koran.

True, Islam is not a religion it is a way of Life.

It is also true that moderates are only moderates because they ignore the extreme parts.

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:18 PM by seethetruth

it is the same god and there is only one god
gods word as always been the same only man has changed gods word because they have interpreted it differently thats why you get different Muslims different Christians and different Jews

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:25 PM by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by igor_ats

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
However, Islam in itself, in its literal and true form, is not a religion of peace. The scriptures of the Koran openly promote violence against all who are not Muslim, with explicit instructions regarding the need for ongoing conquest and subjection of all who are not in submission to Islam (in fact, 'Islam' literally means 'submission').

Islam is questionably not even a religion, as the word is properly understood. It is unique, in that it claims to be a totalitarian spiritual and materialistic revelation to Mankind. It is a total life-system, with its own political aims and its own judicial practices (Sharia law - for example, a woman who testifies that she has been raped can legitimately be stoned to death for adultery)... In the religious sense, God is claimed to be unknowable, and so prayer is not an intimate time of personal reflection, but is rather the repetition by rote en-masse of loosely fixed mantras.

Any deviation from the largely materialistic precepts laid out in the pages of the Koran is considered blasphemous. That is why hardline Muslims will quite often kill their more moderate counterparts. Moderate Muslims only succeed in being 'moderate', because they ignore the more hateful commands in the Koran.

True, Islam is not a religion it is a way of Life.

It is also true that moderates are only moderates because they ignore the extreme parts.

Really? Who did you hear this from? Somebody else who isn't muslim? Jihad watch?

You clearly haven't read the Qur'an for yourself. Define sheep for me.

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:38 PM by samsamm9

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Salam Brothers,
I had a question for My.mind.is.mine and you please,
just wondering from which Tariqa you are from ?

Hope I'm not being to personal here

edit on 25-7-2012 by samsamm9 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:40 PM by charles1952

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Dear tothetenthpower.

Thanks for the smile, even if it may have been unitentional.

This is not to say that radical Islam does not exist, it certainly does. But no more than radical (insert religion here), the only real difference is which one the media focuses on. Which one they'd like you to think was the boogy man for whatever war they wanna start cause the coffers are getting low.

I had a vision of Presbyterians launching WMD attacks by flinging gobs of green bean casserole, Unitarian Universalists not getting the attack launched because of the lengthy debate over which color paper the decalartion of war should be printed on and what song should be selected to inspire the diverse troops, the Anglicans sharpening up their assault tea spoons, and the Quakers being led into battle by the Third Armored Buggy Regiment.

More seriously, we are fed by the media, so I'm limited that way, but I haven't heard of any significant aggression by Christians fighting to expand their religious influence. The Christian religion versus others doesn't seem to be happening.

Oh sure, there are marches, book burnings, hate speech here and there, but not killings and burning buildings.

Help my ignorance and point me towards the information that tends to show Islamists are as peaceful concerning their religion as any other religious adherents are to their's.

With respect,
Charles1952

edit on 25-7-2012 by charles1952 because: spelling

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:41 PM by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by samsamm9
reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Salam Brothers,
I had a question for My.mind.is.mine and you please,
just wondering from which Tariqa you are from ?

Hope I'm not being to personal here

edit on 25-7-2012 by samsamm9 because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-7-2012 by samsamm9 because: (no reason given)

W/ Salaam

Tariqa Tijaniyya

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:48 PM by Murgatroid

Originally posted by samsamm9
Did ATS become a haven for Anti-Islamic propaganda ?
This is getting really old dude.

So is this:

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:55 PM by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by samsamm9
Did ATS become a haven for Anti-Islamic propaganda ?
This is getting really old dude.

So is this:

You're right, it is. Those same photos have been in circulation for years. I didn't know the SAME 18 people represent a billion worldwide..

As for those stupid Jihad Watch stats, please provide me some articles for these 100+ jihad attacks. I've come to realize those numbers are completely fictional.

For the record, there are at least 3 billion "Allahu Akbars" a day.. We attest to Gods greatness when we pray..

edit on 25-7-2012 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 02:59 PM by samsamm9

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by samsamm9
Did ATS become a haven for Anti-Islamic propaganda ?
This is getting really old dude.

So is this: