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World leaders promoting tolerance; but what do you really know about Islam?

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posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Ah, but it's not suicide if you take some infidels with you. Then you're considered a martyr and raised to the highest level of whatever.


Please direct me to where you find this in the Quran or hadiths. Where does the Quran or hadith say that "Suicide is wrong. But if you take some infidels with you then it is a blessing and you are a martyr."

I want to see that Qur'anic verse or hadith. Please?


The Qur'an:

Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Qur'an (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Qur'an (2:207) - "And there is the type of man who gives his life to earn the pleasure of Allah..."

Qur'an (61:10-12) "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement." This verse was given at the battle Uhud and uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

The dark-eyed virgins are mentioned in several places as well, including verses 44:54 and 52:20. For those who swing the other way, there are "perpetual youth" verse 6:17, otherwise known as "boys" verses 52:24 and 76:19.

Qur'an (17:33) "And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right" An important verse that is used by Shahid to not only justify their own deaths, but that of other bystanders who might be believers as well. The end justifies the means, with the goal being the defeat of the kafir and the establishment of Islamic rule.


From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:54) - The words of Muhammad: "I would love to be martyred in Al1ah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred." This is why modern-day Jihadists often say that they love death.



Muslim (20:4678) - During the battle of Uhud, Muhammad was desperate to push men into battle. He promised paradise for those who would martyr themselves, prompting a young man who was eating dates to throw them away and rush to his death.



Muslim (20:4655) - A man asks Muhammad "which of men is the best?" Muhammad replies that it is the man who is always ready for battle and flies into it "seeking death at places where it can be expected." (Tellingly perhaps, the next most saintly man in Islam is the hermit who lives in isolation "sparing men from his mischief.")



Muslim (20:4681) - "Surely, the gates of Paradise are under the shadows of the swords." After hearing Muhammad say that martyrdom leads to paradise, a young man pulls his sword and breaks the sheath (indicating that he has no intention of returning) then flings himself into battle until he is killed.



Muslim (20.4635) - "Nobody who enters Paradise will (ever like to) return to this world even if he were offered everything on the surface of the earth (as an inducement) except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed ten times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him."






Additional Notes:

A suicide bombing is really an act of homicide. When Muslim apologists in the West say that Islam is against such practices by pointing to the hadith that oppose killing oneself, such as Bukhari (23:446), they are being disingenuous. Muslims in the Arab world, who are less concerned about public relations, celebrate and revere suicide bombers, knowing that martyrdom in battle is glorified by their religion. As the Ayatollah Khomeini once put it, "The purest joy in Islam is to kill and be killed for Allah."

But im pretty sure you will say these verses don't exist, and the hadiths, "Are a matter of interpretation".




posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by The X
 


Yep. Not one of those verses backs up your claim that you are allowed to kill yourself in order to kill others. Not one of them. You have failed miserably.

And the Ayatollah Khomeini is not the Pope of Muslims. He's a Shi'a religious leader. He doesn't speak for all Muslims (or even many Muslims for that matter). Less than 20% of all Muslims identify as Shi'a.

Dying in battle defending yourself is not the same as blowing yourself up and killing people as a result of the explosion. Again there is nothing in Islam to justify that. You have produced nothing to back up your claim.

Fighting (war) in Islam is based upon self-defense. Muslims are not to be the aggressors, as the Qur'an states in Chapter 2 verse 191. But I wouldn't expect you to point that out.

So fighting in Islam has nothing to do with suicide bombing. Suicide is still forbidden and you produced no Quran verses or hadith that says what you initially claimed.

You are being extremely deceitful.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by The X
 


Also if you are going to PLAGIARIZE your answer from a known anti-Islam propaganda website, then you should quote it with "ex text" in your comment and then provide the source link. You technically violated T&C by not doing this.

Don't worry. I easily found where you stole your comment from (how pathetically sad that you could only steal from a website and not formulate your own thought).

HERE is where "The X" plagiarized his comment from
edit on 25-7-2012 by CoolerAbdullah786 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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Well, at least the women have some testicular fortitude.




posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by The X

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Ah, but it's not suicide if you take some infidels with you. Then you're considered a martyr and raised to the highest level of whatever.


Please direct me to where you find this in the Quran or hadiths. Where does the Quran or hadith say that "Suicide is wrong. But if you take some infidels with you then it is a blessing and you are a martyr."

I want to see that Qur'anic verse or hadith. Please?


The Qur'an:

Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Qur'an (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."

Qur'an (2:207) - "And there is the type of man who gives his life to earn the pleasure of Allah..."

Qur'an (61:10-12) "O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity: that is indeed the Supreme Achievement." This verse was given at the battle Uhud and uses the Arabic word, Jihad.

The dark-eyed virgins are mentioned in several places as well, including verses 44:54 and 52:20. For those who swing the other way, there are "perpetual youth" verse 6:17, otherwise known as "boys" verses 52:24 and 76:19.

Qur'an (17:33) "And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right" An important verse that is used by Shahid to not only justify their own deaths, but that of other bystanders who might be believers as well. The end justifies the means, with the goal being the defeat of the kafir and the establishment of Islamic rule.


From the Hadith:



Bukhari (52:54) - The words of Muhammad: "I would love to be martyred in Al1ah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred." This is why modern-day Jihadists often say that they love death.



Muslim (20:4678) - During the battle of Uhud, Muhammad was desperate to push men into battle. He promised paradise for those who would martyr themselves, prompting a young man who was eating dates to throw them away and rush to his death.



Muslim (20:4655) - A man asks Muhammad "which of men is the best?" Muhammad replies that it is the man who is always ready for battle and flies into it "seeking death at places where it can be expected." (Tellingly perhaps, the next most saintly man in Islam is the hermit who lives in isolation "sparing men from his mischief.")



Muslim (20:4681) - "Surely, the gates of Paradise are under the shadows of the swords." After hearing Muhammad say that martyrdom leads to paradise, a young man pulls his sword and breaks the sheath (indicating that he has no intention of returning) then flings himself into battle until he is killed.



Muslim (20.4635) - "Nobody who enters Paradise will (ever like to) return to this world even if he were offered everything on the surface of the earth (as an inducement) except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed ten times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him."






Additional Notes:

A suicide bombing is really an act of homicide. When Muslim apologists in the West say that Islam is against such practices by pointing to the hadith that oppose killing oneself, such as Bukhari (23:446), they are being disingenuous. Muslims in the Arab world, who are less concerned about public relations, celebrate and revere suicide bombers, knowing that martyrdom in battle is glorified by their religion. As the Ayatollah Khomeini once put it, "The purest joy in Islam is to kill and be killed for Allah."

But im pretty sure you will say these verses don't exist, and the hadiths, "Are a matter of interpretation".





CoolerAbdullah786 already addressed your failure... Not to mention "Give your life for Allah" makes no indication towards suicide, it's martyrdom, which are worlds apart...



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by FlyInTheOintment
 


We can see that not every follower of a faith acts the same way. Let the criminal face his own crimes, and let the innocent practice their faith freely, so long as they do not follow in the criminal's footsteps.

Live and let live. Every man has his own way of loving the universe; is that not the philosophy we live by? Freedom to follow our own path? These Muslims chose theirs, but they do not choose for the entirety of the Muslim population. Remember that.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by The X
Well, at least the women have some testicular fortitude.



She represents "the women"?

I'm baffled that when it comes to Islam, ATS seems to lose all integrity of debate. All of a sudden 1 person can represent a million. A small street protest can represent a billion. And you can post "soundbites" of the Qur'an in an effort to prove your "argument".



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by The X
 


Yep. Not one of those verses backs up your claim that you are allowed to kill yourself in order to kill others. Not one of them. You have failed miserably.

And the Ayatollah Khomeini is not the Pope of Muslims. He's a Shi'a religious leader. He doesn't speak for all Muslims (or even many Muslims for that matter). Less than 20% of all Muslims identify as Shi'a.

Dying in battle defending yourself is not the same as blowing yourself up and killing people as a result of the explosion. Again there is nothing in Islam to justify that. You have produced nothing to back up your claim.

Fighting (war) in Islam is based upon self-defense. Muslims are not to be the aggressors, as the Qur'an states in Chapter 2 verse 191. But I wouldn't expect you to point that out.

So fighting in Islam has nothing to do with suicide bombing. Suicide is still forbidden and you produced no Quran verses or hadith that says what you initially claimed.

You are being extremely deceitful.


It wasn't my claim.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by ShadeWolf
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


Ah, but it's not suicide if you take some infidels with you. Then you're considered a martyr and raised to the highest level of whatever.


Any proof to back up that claim?

Personally, I've studied Islam for close to 20 years. So please, tell me what qualifies you to even attempt to "correct me".



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by The X
Well, at least the women have some testicular fortitude.



She represents "the women"?

I'm baffled that when it comes to Islam, ATS seems to lose all integrity of debate. All of a sudden 1 person can represent a million. A small street protest can represent a billion. And you can post "soundbites" of the Qur'an in an effort to prove your "argument".


So your saying that she doesn't speak for any of the other forward thinking women in Islam?.
That she doesn't belong to a womans rights group and isn't expressing views held by many WOMEN.
Or, is that the only unhappy "Woman" within the confines of islam?.
(remember it's the death penalty for changing religions, it's not like they can just walk away is it.)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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Heres a link for the apologists, this woman has risked her life by turning her back on islam, she now lives under the threat of death.
She debates the founder of hibn az tir?, omar bhakri muhammed, im sure someone will put me right on the spelling.

7 minutes worth watching.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by The X
 


Also if you are going to PLAGIARIZE your answer from a known anti-Islam propaganda website, then you should quote it with "ex text" in your comment and then provide the source link. You technically violated T&C by not doing this.

Don't worry. I easily found where you stole your comment from (how pathetically sad that you could only steal from a website and not formulate your own thought).

HERE is where "The X" plagiarized his comment from
edit on 25-7-2012 by CoolerAbdullah786 because: (no reason given)


Everything is "Propaganda" when it is "Anti" islam, isn't it?.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by samsamm9
 


Trying to spread fear? Is that what it's called when Shiites get butchered like cattle on a bus by sunni and wahabbi extremists? Did you read all the deaths of muslim in the OP? They were all Shiite, killed by Sunni's and Wahhabis and their affiliate terorist cells. The muslim on muslim violence is incredible, when they don't have a common enemy to fight they kill eachother, rather like Canaanites once did. Makes me wonder how many muslim women curse Allah in their hearts for the deaths of their children at the hands of the same people who yell "Allah'u'ahkbar". I'd rather die a christian pig or a jewish monkey than be a muslim.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by The X
 



Dying in battle defending yourself is not the same as blowing yourself up and killing people as a result of the explosion.



No it isn't, i agree, so why attack your own civilians with acts of naked aggression, a people on whom no war has ever been declared by their own?.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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Cry about Islam all you want the world wars started by Christians has killed far more than Islamic terrorist could ever dream of doing. Hell we have probably killed more people in Iraq than the op states the Muslims have killed. Just look at how many so called Christians in the American government that keep calling for war.

You may want to actually learn something about the Qur'an also. A Muslim is only allowed to fight when he or his religion is being oppressed. And seeing how their nations have been bombed for the last couple of decades they have plenty of reason to want to fight.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Cry about Islam all you want the world wars started by Christians has killed far more than Islamic terrorist could ever dream of doing. Hell we have probably killed more people in Iraq than the op states the Muslims have killed. Just look at how many so called Christians in the American government that keep calling for war.

You may want to actually learn something about the Qur'an also. A Muslim is only allowed to fight when he or his religion is being oppressed. And seeing how their nations have been bombed for the last couple of decades they have plenty of reason to want to fight.


Anything that is a affront to Islam is oppressive to islam correct? Any culture opposite of islam is considered a affront to it. Now that's not to say all Muslims are feeling oppressed. I have to ask though. Its ok to lie to further islams goals to non muslims. If that is true then why should we believe anything they say?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by GLontra
And here is the "Holy Bible" of Jews and Christians:



Deuteronomy 13
King James Version


1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die;
because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.


www.biblegateway.com...


IMO your post is way off topic. The heading is what you know about islam. NOT what the bible is all about. Don't get me wrong, I reckon the bible is nothing more than fairy tales as well, but this thread as I see it is showing and discussing ISLAM!

I see this dirty pseudo religion as something that is destroying any progress we have made as a society.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by yuppa

Originally posted by buster2010
Cry about Islam all you want the world wars started by Christians has killed far more than Islamic terrorist could ever dream of doing. Hell we have probably killed more people in Iraq than the op states the Muslims have killed. Just look at how many so called Christians in the American government that keep calling for war.

You may want to actually learn something about the Qur'an also. A Muslim is only allowed to fight when he or his religion is being oppressed. And seeing how their nations have been bombed for the last couple of decades they have plenty of reason to want to fight.


Anything that is a affront to Islam is oppressive to islam correct? Any culture opposite of islam is considered a affront to it. Now that's not to say all Muslims are feeling oppressed. I have to ask though. Its ok to lie to further islams goals to non muslims. If that is true then why should we believe anything they say?


It doesn't say that in the Qur'an either .Taqiyyah is a shi'a concept, not a popular belief.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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People have been trying to understand why they are here in existance since we were able to comprehend we exist and religion in all its forms is simply a way to explain and control. There is a power that has created everything but we will never be able to understand it, so why keep trying?

Be a good person, lookout for those who need looking out for, keep your nose clean and you ears open, learn a thing or two and leave this life a little better than the way you found it in and you wont have a problem in the next life.

(If you are unsure of how to do this then you are useless to the rest of us trying to make the world a better place and oncoming traffic is right over there--> Try not to make a mess:lol



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 


Originally posted by buster2010
Cry about Islam all you want the world wars started by Christians has killed far more than Islamic terrorist could ever dream of doing.

Is this some NEW conspiracy that says Christians are behind all wars?

Do you actually BELIEVE this and if so WHY?

 

EDIT: Since this question has been completely IGNORED:

Does anyone ELSE here on ATS actually BELIEVE this and if so WHY?

Is it possible that there is NO truth whatsoever to this "FACT"?


 

What exactly do you believe that a Christian is?

Last time I checked, Christians do NOT worship at the Synagogue of Satan...

Unless of course you know something WE don't.


The Synagogue of Satan

One group and one group alone is responsible for virtually all wars and bloodshed on the face of this planet. This evil cabal is few in numbers but, like a deadly octopus, its tentacles reach out to grip and strangle untold multitudes of innocent victims. The initiates of every secret society and internationalist organization, from the Council on Foreign Relations and the Jesuits to the Bilderbergers and the Order of Skull & Bones, obey the dictates of this sinister group and tremble when standing before its leaders.

The cabalist group I refer to is the Synagogue of Satan, an ancient, yet modern, elite so politically powerful and so fabulously wealthy that even past history has been twisted, reshaped, and revised to meet its preferred version of humanity's gloomy, totalitarian future.

Religious in nature, the Synagogue of Satan is, at its essence, a grotesque, satanic cult. It's high council is composed of High Priests of Lucifer; these are men who literally worship death while practicing sexual magick and occult rituals of the blackest nature. LINK


BTW more people are killed by Islamists each YEAR than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition COMBINED. Historians estimate that about 270 million people have been killed by the "religion of peace" since Islam came onto this earth.


"History shows us without a shadow of a doubt, that religion was invariably used as a façade to hide the true purpose of all wars of aggression: That is, the consolidation of power through fear and the acquisition of wealth in all its manifestations."

Religion is used as a façade



You may want to actually learn something about the Qur'an also.

I agree, I'm on it...


The FAKE Quran of al-Ilah

The Quran, in reality, is a book of an imperfect scripture, allegedly sayings of God, filled with errors, contradictions, stupidities, historical inaccuracies. The contents of the Quran are also not arranged according to importance, continuity, sacredness, biography, chronology, significance or sequence of any sorts, but simply by length: the longest chapter, followed by the next longest.

The Verses are disorderly arranged and jumbled up in unrelated subjects/topics. The Quran has no prophecy, no chronology, no geography, no biography of anybody (except bits & pieces of Muhammad’s), no ministry, no history, no proverbs, no parables, no miracles, no psalms, no sequence of any sort.

It's generally a manual of dos and don'ts, like an instruction manual of a vacuum cleaner, with punitive punishments, reprisals and rewards specified in it. The Quran is, undoubtedly, not a book created by an intelligent being, and is unfit for the intelligent and rational thinking persons. This book fraught with lack of fraud, stupidity and logic and reason (discussed below), which makes it a complete lie.

The Deceit of Islam

How the Vatican created Islam
The Catholic church and Islam are frauds








edit on 25-7-2012 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..




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