World leaders promoting tolerance; but what do you really know about Islam?

reply to post by TKDRL


Here ya go, TKDRL:

What the Quran really says about violence

Why are the first posts in response to this thread attempting to derail? Who has the agenda now? This discussion has nothing to do the war on terror, or Christianity. I have known this about Islam for some time, and it has always bothered me. But, I've never really thought about the whole "system" of Islam before. It really is more that a religion. I firmly believe that religion and politics should be separate, and it seems this is impossible with Islam.

If you really understand what the religion teaches, you will begin to understand that there is no "compromising" with an Islamic state. I used to be all for letting Islamic countries rule themselves, but does them gaining power compromise the security of their neighbors, including all countries around the world? I'm starting to think so. Why compromise with leaders who support a doctrine that wants to kill you?

The US declared war on communism, without even understanding communism, so why not declare war on Islam, since the doctrine is all about killing non-Islamic people? And they do this every single day. If you want to talk about Christians, Christians openly deny the Old Testament of the Bible. They only practice the New Testament, and they openly state this. How many Christian radicals are out blowing people up everyday? Exactly.

Christian religions does not advocate killing all non-Christians. The Bible does not condone this, no matter what anyone says. The New Testament was the replacement for the old, and the teachings of Jesus are what Christianity is based upon, and Jesus didn't advocate killing people. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. Islam is completely different from Christianity, and anyone who would say that they are both as violent as one another are just plain wrong. The Crusades were the last Christian Holy Wars that were sanctioned by the church on a large scale, and were most likely the last. With Islam, there is an ongoing Holy War, or Jihad, every single day the entire world is not made up of practicing Muslims.

I say that any doctrine that is that dangerous should be eradicated, because all it will do is spread further violence. Why not get the violence out of the way now, so we don't have to worry about it in the future?

So to that [religion of Allah ] invite, [O Muhammad], and remain on a right course as you are commanded and do not follow their inclinations but say, "I have believed in what Allah has revealed of the Qur'an, and I have been commanded to do justice among you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord. For us are our deeds, and for you your deeds. There is no [need for] argument between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and to Him is the [final] destination." (Surah 42:15-)

And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (Surah 29:46-)

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


Thanks, that puts the whole pagan thing into better context. The jews and christian part was a whole lot easier to come to understanding by just reading it myself.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

since the doctrine is all about killing non-Islamic people

Sorry, but that is an utter lie. Do you speak out of ignorance, or spite?
That is like saying the bible is all about killing non catholics. It's utterly absurd. I am not a muslim, I have read the book though, twice so far. As I have read the bible a few times as well as others.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus

The US declared war on communism, without even understanding communism, so why not declare war on Islam, since the doctrine is all about killing non-Islamic people?

Really? Where in the Quran do you get that from? Just another example of someone coming along and making a claim about Islam with no evidence to back it, a claim that has been refuted numerous times over.

If you want to talk about Christians, Christians openly deny the Old Testament of the Bible.

No they don't. They only deny it when it comes to things they want to do like shave, have premarital sex, eat pork, and get tattoos. They love to invoke it to justify homophobia and the death penalty.

They only practice the New Testament, and they openly state this. How many Christian radicals are out blowing people up everyday? Exactly.

No, it's not "exactly." Show me where in the Quran it says that blowing yourself up is allowed. Suicide is foridden in Islam. Yet AGAIN I have to point out that the actions of Muslims do not necessarily reflect the message of the Quran.

Does all the violence committed by Christians now (like killing abortion doctors or blowing up abortion clinics) and in throughout history (crusades, inquisitions, witch hunts, anti-semitism, etc) reflect the message of the New Testament?

Christian religions does not advocate killing all non-Christians.

Nor does the Quran. But let's see you copy and paste verses off of an anti-Islam propaganda website from the Quran taken out of historical and textual context.

The Crusades were the last Christian Holy Wars that were sanctioned by the church on a large scale, and were most likely the last.

And yet by your own admission they WERE sanctioned by the Church. You are now contradicting yourself.

With Islam, there is an ongoing Holy War, or Jihad, every single day the entire world is not made up of practicing Muslims.

Wrong. Jihad doesn't mean holy war. Jihad means "struggle." There are rules for jihad, rules that the extremists are actually breaking. Holy war in Arabic is "al-harb al-quddus." When the Quran mentions "fighting" it does not use the word "jihad." It uses the word "qital" which comes from the verb "qatala" which means "to fight."

I say that any doctrine that is that dangerous should be eradicated, because all it will do is spread further violence. Why not get the violence out of the way now, so we don't have to worry about it in the future?

I love it! Now you are the one openly advocating violence against a whole group: Muslims. And you are a Christian? The irony is astounding at this moment in time.

reply to post by TKDRL


See. This is why Muslims get so frustrated. How many times on this thread alone has someone (like JiggyPotamus and others) popped up spouting this same nonsense? It's like we have to keep using the same arguments over and over again. I have to repeat myself more with these grown adults than I have to with my 5 year old.

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by TKDRL

 

See. This is why Muslims get so frustrated. How many times on this thread alone has someone popped up spouting this same nonsense? It's like we have to keep using the same arguments over and over again. I have to repeat myself more with these grown adults than I have to with my 5 year old.

I think TKDRL was agreeing with you to a certain extent wasnt he? So why would it upset you? The reason they use the same arguments is they see it in the book and since they are not muslims mistranslate it all the time. Im all for peace between religons,but what would happen if we do this. The middle east is cut off and just trade done. That will make 90 percent of the world happy so they dont have to worry about a worldwide caliphate. Yeah its drastic but it could work. Making certain regions certain religious zones with no way to settle there but being of the same faith. Now its just a idea segregation usually dont work so well and its a shame its coming down to it in all likelihood.

reply to post by yuppa


No, TKDRL wasn't frustrating me. The person he was responding to, JiggyPotamus, in his comment (and whom I also addressed in depth) was the one frustrating me.

I was pointing out to TKDRL why Muslims get so frustrated; it's because of people like the guy we recently both responded to

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Hecate666

 

I would disagree about the growing up part on the christians.
I imagine if you put up numbers of people killed in say the last decade of christian based countries vs muslim countries, one would pull way ahead.
But all religions are bad imo.
Just a way of dividing, controlling, and conquering.

That's not really a fair comparison though, you can't compare the kill tally of the general population to the kill tally of the governments and their militaries.
Most westerners are against all wars, we're sort of enslaved and don't really have a choice in the matter.

Most muslims aren't terrorists or killers, but the population in general commits several terrorist attacks every day, they do have their reasons though.

What would be fair is comparing the kill tally of muslim civilians to the kill tally of christian civilians, but then there's circumstances and countless other variables.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


I try to defend all religions/philosophies I have studied, against biased propaganda . You will hear me even defend athiests against blatant lies. I defend christians sometimes when phelps rears his big head, and I don't think highly of christians as a whole due to personal experiences with them. I am not a part of any of those groups though, I just see them all being bashed, and usually by people totally ignorant of what they are bashing.

My native beliefs probably fall under the heathen pagan catagory I guess

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Islam has an extensive propaganda machine, as you can see in multiple threads. One can use quotes from their religion, use multiple videos showing the ugly side of Islam and all you will get is deflection. Why do I say this, well from my understanding the Quran, to someone who practices Islam, is literally the word of God - so there is no interpretation, what you see is what you get.

So you have the extremists of Islam who take the word literally, and those who don't....and yes, the extremists are not the majority - but hell, say 15% of the population who practice Islam are extremists....that leaves you with 260 million....and to me that is a lot of people.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


OH. well thats good. I hate these kinds of arguments though. SO many casualties on all sides. Like the girl i liked in Israel,but who got blown up for something she didnt personally do to the palestinians by a rocket. This whole situation is a sad state of affairs. If people would not call for conversions or force their wills on others the world would be a better place.

reply to post by MidnightTide


Correction is not deflection. The "quotes" got torn to pieces.

Please don't eradicate the pagans This philosophy/religion maybe the closest belief system I relate to. Besides Christianity already stomped it out to the point that it is considered a dead religion. We need to recognize that each of us are sovereign entities of the universe. We are individuals and should be treated as such. If my beliefs dictate that I should not bring harm to anyone in any way shape or from then why should it matter what my personal spirituality is or is not. Love, respect, tolerance, and acceptance. If your belief mirrors that then I have no problems with you and I would love to know more about you and your beliefs. I don't even care if your a satanist as long as you treat others as you would have them treat you.

reply to post by TKDRL


TKDRL, I totally agree 100%. I'm a Muslim but I have studied all religions and practiced a few different ones in my life. At one point in my life I was even an atheist.

If you look at my most recent post it is about a Jewish Summer Camp in PA that was terrorized, vandalized, and attacked by some racist White people.

reply to post by MidnightTide


Well, with all due respect, you would be wrong. Of course there is interpretation of the Qur'an.

And 15% of Muslims are extremists? Absolutely not. I'd love to see some sort of evidence for a claim like that. It's absurd to even begin to put it that high. I'd imagine it to be less than 1%. 15% of the Muslim population? You wouldn't need a bunch of cave-dwelling Muslim version of "hicks" blowing themselves up. They would be a dangerous force if there was 260 million of them. They could orchestrate one mass attack and take out every enemy they have worldwide.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
So you have the extremists of Islam who take the word literally, and those who don't....and yes, the extremists are not the majority - but hell, say 15% of the population who practice Islam are extremists....that leaves you with 260 million....and to me that is a lot of people.

edit on 26-7-2012 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry, but I'm actually quite speechless. "15%"? Please enlighten me - Where did you get this figure from?

"Islam is the winner"

Glenn Beck admits islam is the truth

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


Isn't the Quran full of verses, those that are clear and easy to understand and should be taken literally for what it says. You also have others that appear to be open for interpretation - but isn't the Quran THE LITERAL WORD OF GOD passed down to Mohammad and the only one who would know the true meaning would be God therefore questioning those verses would be considered a perversion? Wouldn't it be faith for a Muslim just to believe in the literal wording?