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Gun laws in the USA,,,

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posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:26 PM
link   
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 



Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 


Why don't you just come for my guns yourself and find out?


I don't want your guns....thats the problem with the pro gun lobby ....there always trying to defend to the death there right to bare arms....yet how many have actually defended there beloved USA on foreign soil ??? not many !!

I don't think you should have guns with your attitude...

E


Ok strange dude posting about US gun laws on the internet trying to get me to say that I would kill a cop on an online forum.

Let me be clear with you, I do not have any intention to kill any cops. So you can keep your thought crimes over their in the UK ok? We don't have those here. I don't think you should have access to a computer.




posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Infi8nity
 


US pop = 310 million
UK pop - 60 million

Stats are not precise but close enough. UK still has a much lower per capita murder rate, and your point is ?

Way to dodge the question too ! i did notice
edit on 20-7-2012 by Hopeforeveryone because: (no reason given)


Your right but those numbers make it ridicules. 60million x 6 = 300million
So compared to the US

3,240 murders in the uk.

You cant solely blame guns on high murder rates. The US has much more gangs... But thats not even the point. If we had 20k death rate then I would still stand behind protecting my self from the people that do not give a damn. Gangs will control the gun market and sell guns to criminals. The criminals will have a field day. Compliant citizens have no way of defending them selfs so gangs will start to spread and get more power leading to more killings.
edit on 20-7-2012 by Infi8nity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 


Look there is only one thing that matters in regards to the 2nd amendment. Its design and purpose is not out of date..

It's designed to protect us from people like you.


People like me????????????????????????????

Care to explain??

E


People who desire to dominate our lives with their opinions. You don't like guns, fine, don't have one. I do, I wish to have the ability to protect myself and family in any number of possible, whether probable or not, scenarios. People like you are the bane of freedom, who see threats against peace as excuses to rob others. Yes, my gun primary reason for existence is self protection from likely threats. It's secondary is for the possible likelihood of someone trying to rob me of my right to self defense. I categorize villains and people like you together because your goal is the same: Degrade my sense of security. There's a reason why gun loving Americans have motto's like "from my cold dead hands" and "come and get em" ... because that's what they're there for .. protect us form people like you.


"From my cold dead hands"...."come get em" and you wonder why the rest of the world laughs at you ...
do you guys use gun lube for ...ya know....other things??

LOL
E


Kind of like when a bunch of armed farmers kicked your sorry asses to gain freedom? Or the fact that during WWII and the Cold War it was repeatedly decided by our enemies that a land invasion of not only armed but well trained populace would be impossible to occupy? Or the fact that there is a limitation as to what our country's government will do to us for fear of backlash? Laugh away buddy.. if history is any indication the meek European populace never goes to long with out cruel domination by some tyrannical source over an unarmed populace.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 


Yes actually. I was in a sex shop (don't laugh, it was a classy one...I was with a girl...I wasn't there to buy porno...I swear) the other day and saw a brand of lubricant called gun oil. I asked later some marines about gun oil and uhhh... other uses. Yep. they use it for personal lubrication sometimes too when deployed.



Hahahahahaha what a fighting force those marines are hahahahaha

E



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:29 PM
link   
I think maybe the solution to the gun violence problem is not neccessairly have stricter gun laws but to perhaps add small measures to weed out the crazies. For example, have every state require a gun license and have a mandatory psychological evaluation in order to obtain that license.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 



Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 


Why don't you just come for my guns yourself and find out?


I don't want your guns....thats the problem with the pro gun lobby ....there always trying to defend to the death there right to bare arms....yet how many have actually defended there beloved USA on foreign soil ??? not many !!

I don't think you should have guns with your attitude...

E


Ok strange dude posting about US gun laws on the internet trying to get me to say that I would kill a cop on an online forum.

Let me be clear with you, I do not have any intention to kill any cops. So you can keep your thought crimes over their in the UK ok? We don't have those here. I don't think you should have access to a computer.


Im not the one stating id shoot people.....and i stick to what i said you should not have guns.

E



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Infi8nity

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Infi8nity

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 


Why don't you just come for my guns yourself and find out?


I don't want your guns....thats the problem with the pro gun lobby ....there always trying to defend to the death there right to bare arms....yet how many have actually defended there beloved USA on foreign soil ??? not many !!

I don't think you should have guns with your attitude...

E


Defend your country on foreign soil? You mean take over a country so you can use their resources to continue a consumerism way of living? Thats defending?


I agree the USA went to war when they had no right too!

that's something they have to justify every day!

E


Then why are you telling people to defend their country on foreign soil when defending the US on foreign soil does not exist? No one is going to start war with us unless we are posing a threat. 700billion dollar military budget, the highest in the world. The second is china 100billion. Whos going to declare war? We are apart of the U.N.


No one will declare war on you guys....my best guess is you will get nuked!! with in 10 years....you will be clutching your guns in vain!

E


You guys? Your not in America? Then what make you think you have the right to talk to us about gun control?



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
The question of what would happen if some law were passed to confiscate all guns. I think the police would have a very difficult time enforcing that law. One most citizens who own a gun have far superior weaponry than the police. Your a cop, with a pistol or maybe a pump shot gun or AR and you want to confiscate the .338 some civilian owns and has in their home. Good luck. Body armor. Won't help. Hiding behind squad car. WOn't help. Shooting with no effect you're little pea shooter won't help. A helicopter won't help. You would literally need a cop with another large bore rifle who is a crack shot (good luck finding a normal cop who is a crack shot, or can even shoot straight) and can magically predict where said individual is in the house. You really want to approach a house where there is a good chance a 338 is trained on you? No cop will go for that. They will stay in their squad cars and write traffic tickets instead. Also thats just one house. Got 1 more for just this block. Would be literally impossible to disarm the US population.

A cop walking door to door trying to confiscate guns from people who are far better armed then them is suicide. No cop will go for it.



well thats your problem right there.....letting everyone collect guns like someone would collect teddy bears,stamps,key rings etc ur just asking for problems........when gun crime started to get out of control then u,ve got to ask why it was let to get out of hand.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Nucleardiver

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Nucleardiver

Originally posted by EqualizerUK
In wake of the deaths in the cinema complex in Colorado, what do people think of the gun law in the US?

I personally think that the gun law needs updating, i don't think civilians need to own massively high powered assault rifles.
Guns should be free to buy/own/care everywhere but there has to be some kind of cap on the amount and type people can have!

RIP the people that died!

E


First of all since you're in the UK why don't you concentrate just a little more on ways to effectively stop the mass stabbings that take place in your country. It really pisses me off when you Brit's want to start putting in your 2 cents about how messed up our gun laws are.

The ban on guns in britian has done nothing to quell the amount of violent crimes in your country yet you seem to think you have all the answers when it comes to our laws. So I guess in the wake of alk the stabbings in the UK us Americans should start telling your country to ban all knives.When you become an American citizen then talk about our laws, until then go have your tea time and chant hail to the queen.

Secondly, guns don't kill people, people kill people......period! A gun, whether it is an 1860 Colt Navy revolver or a Sig Sauer 517 Patrol Rifle is an inanimate object that can do nothing but sit there until someone takes control of it and has no way to kill anyone.

Banning guns of any kind is not the answer, the solution to the problem is to stop the culture of violence that has taken over our nation. Ban guns and people will resort to stabbing people or any number of ways to kill someone. I personally own over 30 guns, from antique cap and ball muskets and revolvers to full auto M4's and AK's and several sniper rifles including an M24 Marine Corps and an L96A2 that was my service rifle. Being an FFL dealer with a class 3 tax certificate I can also own and manufacture destructive devices such as Claymore's and high explosives, of which I own several and I have never killed anyone except in combat and hope I never have to again but if forced to I would without hesitation.

Now if suddenly my guns were made illegal and taken away and I wanted to kill someone I would have a multitude of options available to do so, some would be just as efficient and ash and some would require more effort but they would all get the job done. I could use a bow and arrow, a speargun, a compressed air potatoes gun, run them over with a car, a knife, a baseball bat, a golf club, an axe, a pitchfork, a shovel, a hockey stick, my dumbbells bar, stab them in the jugular with a pen or pencil, a broken bottle, make a bomb with diesel fuel and nitrate fertalizer, boil chlorine bleach down and add potassium to make a potassium chlorate bomb, strangle them with a telephone cord or piece of rope,or just use my bare hands.

My point is that no matter what is available to a person if they want to kill someone they will. People have been killing people since we were either in the Garden of Eden or nomadic cavemen living in caves and using stone and antler tools, it will not stop but for you to be so hypocritical and naive to think that banning or restricting guns will do anything to stop it is just ignorant.


It's a bit rich say we think we have all the answers when it's you guys that do all the bullying around the world bombing and smashing smaller countries ect....

E


Really? Well I guess either you don't pay much attention to the news in your country or he queen doesn't allow the truth on your news. I spent 16 years in the US Navy with 12 of them being as a SWCC operator under JSOC and 80% of the time that we were "bullying, smashing, and bombing" other countries your SAS, SBS, SFSG, or other UKSF groups were right there beside us. Well actually they were behind us, but they were doing there best to keep up.


LOL im not going to get into the US troops rule the world fantasy land with you ....

three letters SAS the model all othesr aspire to.. end of!

E


Instead your gonna get into the British SAS rule the world fantasy!.......Hypocrite much?

I guess that's why the Ministry of Defense sent observers to Coronado to observe our training and why SEAL team 4 and DEVGRU along with my Special Boat SWCC team was sent to Stirling Lines RHQ Credenhill in Herefordshire to train SAS active and reserves in CQC and TAT before they deployed for Afghan in Operation Enduring Freedom.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 


Look there is only one thing that matters in regards to the 2nd amendment. Its design and purpose is not out of date..

It's designed to protect us from people like you.


People like me????????????????????????????

Care to explain??

E


People who desire to dominate our lives with their opinions. You don't like guns, fine, don't have one. I do, I wish to have the ability to protect myself and family in any number of possible, whether probable or not, scenarios. People like you are the bane of freedom, who see threats against peace as excuses to rob others. Yes, my gun primary reason for existence is self protection from likely threats. It's secondary is for the possible likelihood of someone trying to rob me of my right to self defense. I categorize villains and people like you together because your goal is the same: Degrade my sense of security. There's a reason why gun loving Americans have motto's like "from my cold dead hands" and "come and get em" ... because that's what they're there for .. protect us form people like you.


"From my cold dead hands"...."come get em" and you wonder why the rest of the world laughs at you ...
do you guys use gun lube for ...ya know....other things??

LOL
E


Kind of like when a bunch of armed farmers kicked your sorry asses to gain freedom? Or the fact that during WWII and the Cold War it was repeatedly decided by our enemies that a land invasion of not only armed but well trained populace would be impossible to occupy? Or the fact that there is a limitation as to what our country's government will do to us for fear of backlash? Laugh away buddy.. if history is any indication the meek European populace never goes to long with out cruel domination by some tyrannical source over an unarmed populace.


Lol the British owned half the world at one stage in time....

The true fact is half the people baring arms in the US so loyal and bravely have not got what it takes to fight an army ...and that is the truth.

E



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:33 PM
link   
YEP some people don't learn from history apparently ...cough,cough europeans.

GUns are there to keep the govt in check. to prevent other nations from simply invading.

You guys also gotta remember part of the reason gun culture is so much more developed in the US is because when guns first started coming out, the US was a wild frontier. Everyone needed a gun as general tool. for protection from the wild and for hunting. Guns evolved into our culture because of that. Europe was no frontier by the time guns came n the scene. The whole reason for europeans colonizing the US wasn't for things like gold. IT was because the europeans had decimated their wildlife (still is today) and they needed to harvest wood and fish from the americas. So there was n real need for the gun in european society. Other than to protect them from govt injustice.

At least the american colonists had the balls to stand up to the british govt and tell them to f off. ANd when the brits got indignant we armed ourselves and said F off or we will shoot your ass off. and thats exactly what we did. and you know what it worked. why because the population was armed.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Infi8nity

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Infi8nity
 


US pop = 310 million
UK pop - 60 million

Stats are not precise but close enough. UK still has a much lower per capita murder rate, and your point is ?

Way to dodge the question too ! i did notice
edit on 20-7-2012 by Hopeforeveryone because: (no reason given)


Your right but those numbers make it ridicules. 60million x 6 = 300million
So compared to the US

3,240 murders in the uk.

You cant solely blame guns on high murder rates. The US has much more gangs... But thats not even the point. If we had 20k death rate then I would still stand behind protecting my self from the people that do not give a damn. Gangs will control the gun market and sell guns to criminals. The criminals will have a field day. Compliant citizens have no way of defending them selfs so gangs will start to spread and get more power leading to more killings.
edit on 20-7-2012 by Infi8nity because: (no reason given)



Yeah my point was there's too many guns floating around the US already - would take at least a generation to round them up so control is a sticky issue. Ways to tackle the problems with violence, whatever the cause, should be higher a priority in the US. For a developed, first world nation the statistics are quite worrying.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nucleardiver

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Nucleardiver

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Nucleardiver

Originally posted by EqualizerUK
In wake of the deaths in the cinema complex in Colorado, what do people think of the gun law in the US?

I personally think that the gun law needs updating, i don't think civilians need to own massively high powered assault rifles.
Guns should be free to buy/own/care everywhere but there has to be some kind of cap on the amount and type people can have!

RIP the people that died!

E


First of all since you're in the UK why don't you concentrate just a little more on ways to effectively stop the mass stabbings that take place in your country. It really pisses me off when you Brit's want to start putting in your 2 cents about how messed up our gun laws are.

The ban on guns in britian has done nothing to quell the amount of violent crimes in your country yet you seem to think you have all the answers when it comes to our laws. So I guess in the wake of alk the stabbings in the UK us Americans should start telling your country to ban all knives.When you become an American citizen then talk about our laws, until then go have your tea time and chant hail to the queen.

Secondly, guns don't kill people, people kill people......period! A gun, whether it is an 1860 Colt Navy revolver or a Sig Sauer 517 Patrol Rifle is an inanimate object that can do nothing but sit there until someone takes control of it and has no way to kill anyone.

Banning guns of any kind is not the answer, the solution to the problem is to stop the culture of violence that has taken over our nation. Ban guns and people will resort to stabbing people or any number of ways to kill someone. I personally own over 30 guns, from antique cap and ball muskets and revolvers to full auto M4's and AK's and several sniper rifles including an M24 Marine Corps and an L96A2 that was my service rifle. Being an FFL dealer with a class 3 tax certificate I can also own and manufacture destructive devices such as Claymore's and high explosives, of which I own several and I have never killed anyone except in combat and hope I never have to again but if forced to I would without hesitation.

Now if suddenly my guns were made illegal and taken away and I wanted to kill someone I would have a multitude of options available to do so, some would be just as efficient and ash and some would require more effort but they would all get the job done. I could use a bow and arrow, a speargun, a compressed air potatoes gun, run them over with a car, a knife, a baseball bat, a golf club, an axe, a pitchfork, a shovel, a hockey stick, my dumbbells bar, stab them in the jugular with a pen or pencil, a broken bottle, make a bomb with diesel fuel and nitrate fertalizer, boil chlorine bleach down and add potassium to make a potassium chlorate bomb, strangle them with a telephone cord or piece of rope,or just use my bare hands.

My point is that no matter what is available to a person if they want to kill someone they will. People have been killing people since we were either in the Garden of Eden or nomadic cavemen living in caves and using stone and antler tools, it will not stop but for you to be so hypocritical and naive to think that banning or restricting guns will do anything to stop it is just ignorant.


It's a bit rich say we think we have all the answers when it's you guys that do all the bullying around the world bombing and smashing smaller countries ect....

E


Really? Well I guess either you don't pay much attention to the news in your country or he queen doesn't allow the truth on your news. I spent 16 years in the US Navy with 12 of them being as a SWCC operator under JSOC and 80% of the time that we were "bullying, smashing, and bombing" other countries your SAS, SBS, SFSG, or other UKSF groups were right there beside us. Well actually they were behind us, but they were doing there best to keep up.


LOL im not going to get into the US troops rule the world fantasy land with you ....

three letters SAS the model all othesr aspire to.. end of!

E


Instead your gonna get into the British SAS rule the world fantasy!.......Hypocrite much?

I guess that's why the Ministry of Defense sent observers to Coronado to observe our training and why SEAL team 4 and DEVGRU along with my Special Boat SWCC team was sent to Stirling Lines RHQ Credenhill in Herefordshire to train SAS active and reserves in CQC and TAT before they deployed for Afghan in Operation Enduring Freedom.


You mean cross training with different units???

you guys wern't teaching anything !!

E



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by Infi8nity

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Infi8nity

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Infi8nity

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 


Why don't you just come for my guns yourself and find out?


I don't want your guns....thats the problem with the pro gun lobby ....there always trying to defend to the death there right to bare arms....yet how many have actually defended there beloved USA on foreign soil ??? not many !!

I don't think you should have guns with your attitude...

E


Defend your country on foreign soil? You mean take over a country so you can use their resources to continue a consumerism way of living? Thats defending?


I agree the USA went to war when they had no right too!

that's something they have to justify every day!

E


Then why are you telling people to defend their country on foreign soil when defending the US on foreign soil does not exist? No one is going to start war with us unless we are posing a threat. 700billion dollar military budget, the highest in the world. The second is china 100billion. Whos going to declare war? We are apart of the U.N.


No one will declare war on you guys....my best guess is you will get nuked!! with in 10 years....you will be clutching your guns in vain!

E


You guys? Your not in America? Then what make you think you have the right to talk to us about gun control?


What rights are we breaking by asking questions ...isn't that what ATS is all about?....

E



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:36 PM
link   
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 





Lol the British owned half the world at one stage in time....


Na youre full of it. Maybe a bit here and there but NOTHING like the territory owned by the Romans or Alexander the Great or Ghengis Khan.
Get your facts straight, then your posts might be taken seriously.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by EqualizerUK

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 


Look there is only one thing that matters in regards to the 2nd amendment. Its design and purpose is not out of date..

It's designed to protect us from people like you.


People like me????????????????????????????

Care to explain??

E


People who desire to dominate our lives with their opinions. You don't like guns, fine, don't have one. I do, I wish to have the ability to protect myself and family in any number of possible, whether probable or not, scenarios. People like you are the bane of freedom, who see threats against peace as excuses to rob others. Yes, my gun primary reason for existence is self protection from likely threats. It's secondary is for the possible likelihood of someone trying to rob me of my right to self defense. I categorize villains and people like you together because your goal is the same: Degrade my sense of security. There's a reason why gun loving Americans have motto's like "from my cold dead hands" and "come and get em" ... because that's what they're there for .. protect us form people like you.


"From my cold dead hands"...."come get em" and you wonder why the rest of the world laughs at you ...
do you guys use gun lube for ...ya know....other things??

LOL
E


Kind of like when a bunch of armed farmers kicked your sorry asses to gain freedom? Or the fact that during WWII and the Cold War it was repeatedly decided by our enemies that a land invasion of not only armed but well trained populace would be impossible to occupy? Or the fact that there is a limitation as to what our country's government will do to us for fear of backlash? Laugh away buddy.. if history is any indication the meek European populace never goes to long with out cruel domination by some tyrannical source over an unarmed populace.


Lol the British owned half the world at one stage in time....

The true fact is half the people baring arms in the US so loyal and bravely have not got what it takes to fight an army ...and that is the truth.

E

They dont have what it takes?

They dont need what it takes, all they need is their brother to own a gun



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 





Lol the British owned half the world at one stage in time....


Na youre full of it. Maybe a bit here and there but NOTHING like the territory owned by the Romans or Alexander the Great or Ghengis Khan.
Get your facts straight, then your posts might be taken seriously.


lol how far back you going ?

edit on 20-7-2012 by EqualizerUK because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:40 PM
link   
images.google.com...:&imgrefurl=http://ccsaevans.blogs pot.com/2011/03/british-empire-map.html&docid=9XPk-W2G-SOELM&imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EjNEI9gcAbg/TXY0tF24NLI/AAAAAAAAAD4/WRqpxVlqStQ/s1600/TH E%25252BBritish%25252BEmpire.jpg&w=629&h=336&ei=BfoJUK3wMcGi0QWFsKXtCg&zoom=1



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone

Originally posted by Infi8nity

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Infi8nity
 


US pop = 310 million
UK pop - 60 million

Stats are not precise but close enough. UK still has a much lower per capita murder rate, and your point is ?

Way to dodge the question too ! i did notice
edit on 20-7-2012 by Hopeforeveryone because: (no reason given)


Your right but those numbers make it ridicules. 60million x 6 = 300million
So compared to the US

3,240 murders in the uk.

You cant solely blame guns on high murder rates. The US has much more gangs... But thats not even the point. If we had 20k death rate then I would still stand behind protecting my self from the people that do not give a damn. Gangs will control the gun market and sell guns to criminals. The criminals will have a field day. Compliant citizens have no way of defending them selfs so gangs will start to spread and get more power leading to more killings.
edit on 20-7-2012 by Infi8nity because: (no reason given)



Yeah my point was there's too many guns floating around the US already - would take at least a generation to round them up so control is a sticky issue. Ways to tackle the problems with violence, whatever the cause, should be higher a priority in the US. For a developed, first world nation the statistics are quite worrying.


And let our defenses down? Ha we may not need them now but we probably will in the future. Owning guns would keep a country from directly invading. Like another poster said in ww2 troops took paths witch wear away from heavy populated gun area's because they knew they could not take them on.
edit on 20-7-2012 by Infi8nity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by EqualizerUK
 





Lol the British owned half the world at one stage in time....


Na youre full of it. Maybe a bit here and there but NOTHING like the territory owned by the Romans or Alexander the Great or Ghengis Khan.
Get your facts straight, then your posts might be taken seriously.


Sorry, you're wrong. The British Empire was the largest that ever existed, closely followed by the Mongol Empire ! Not that i care it's just... ya know....acuracy and all that



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