An Honest Question For ATS Preachers

reply to post by autowrench


I think internet preachers know they're beating a dead horse on this site.

They can't be that thick.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by autowrench

 

I think internet preachers know they're beating a dead horse on this site.

They can't be that thick.

We beat dead horses everywhere. This site is just a microcosm of the world at large. This reminds me, Christ said at the time of the end it would be like it was in the days of Noah. And in his day men's hearts were so hardened that he preached for 100 years and didn't win a single convert.

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by autowrench

 

I think internet preachers know they're beating a dead horse on this site.

They can't be that thick.

The beating of a dead horse is not to benefit the dead horse. It is for someone else who may be watching. Silently watching.

In other words it is not to benefit those teaching false doctrines, but to benefit those watching the discussion.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Please explain how a life can change and a person can live to glorify God if their mind is still reprobate and they still don't think they are a sinner and their sins are against God?

If you keep thinking like that, you are going to get kicked out of your cult.

I'll take that as a "they cannot". Thank you. Without first a change of mind to change the behavior any effort is just an exercise in behavior modification. The mind is the rudder of a man's behavior. It's the software.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

It's the indwelling ministry of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life that changes our wills to do God's will. (Philippians 2:13)

Who was it that told you that was the meaning of that verse? One of your cult leaders?
You are using that as a proof text, I am guessing to support you cult's doctrine of lack of free will.
All that is saying in Philippians is that it was God's will that there was a church raised up in that city.

"When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense."

The Holy Spirit changes us "regeneration/sanctification" to will in us to align with God's will. That's what being born again is all about.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

And I am not addressing any more Trinity questions from you until you answer my previous ones I asked of you.

If you would really want answers to those questions that I apparently missed you would repost them so that I could answer them. I think you are just afraid of the truth.

Don't insult me because I refuse to allow you to interrogate me. If you want to discuss things that's fine. I already said though you will answer my questions too. I'm not a criminal on the witness stand. And I will not cater to your laziness either, use the page back button. I asked you a few questions you ignored. Answer them and then I will reciprocate and answer your new ones. But don't insult me or you'll be ignored, I'm being patient with you however I am not Christ, my patience doesn't endure forever.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I do not see any that I missed.

I am not trying to insult you, just being honest.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Who is baptized in the name of three gods? First of all, Trinitarians are monotheists not polytheists. We call God "Him" not "them". Secondly, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" aren't names, they are titles. And "in the name of" means "in the authority of".

Trinitarians are polytheists. Otherwise you would be comfortable saying that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Not sure where u studied theology and Christology, but the Father is the Father, the Son is the Son, and the Spirit is the Spirit. Jesus didn't pray to Himself. He didn't call down from Heaven at His own baptism and say He was well pleased with Himself. He didn't scream out at the cross and ask why He forsook Himself.

I'm sorry truejew. Here is the post I was referring to and I worded them as truth statements and not questions, I was wrong in how I recalled this post above. Please address these statements.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Not sure where u studied theology and Christology,

Two years at Indiana Bible College, long family history in ministry (Quaker, Methodist, and Apostolic), and prayer/study with God.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

but the Father is the Father

True, but He is also the Holy Spirit and the Spirit manifest as the Son of God.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

the Son is the Son,

If you mean that the Son of God existed before He was born, then that is not correct. The Spirit in the Son, the Father/Holy Ghost/God, existed before the virgin birth. However the Son of God, the Father/Holy Ghost/God manifest in flesh did not exist before the virgin birth.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

and the Spirit is the Spirit.

True, but the Holy Spirit is the Father and was the Spirit manifest as the Son of God.

What you said is three gods. Having three gods and claiming that they are only one, doesn't change that they are three gods.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Jesus didn't pray to Himself.

We are human. We pray to God. The Son of God was human. He prayed to God. The fact that Jesus is also fully God does not take away His need for His humanity to pray. Your explanation would have one god praying to another god. The Bible is very clear that there is only one God.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

He didn't call down from Heaven at His own baptism and say He was well pleased with Himself. He didn't scream out at the cross and ask why He forsook Himself.

See previous answer about the prayers of Jesus.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

"When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense."

So, by that you mean, take things out of context and pretend the verse means what you want it to.

The Holy Spirit changes us "regeneration/sanctification" to will in us to align with God's will. That's what being born again is all about.

Cute little theory but not what the Bible says.
It looks like something you made up to support the "Free Grace" cult theory that people don't have to exercise free will and just go with the flow and whatever happens, it must just be God's will, leaving people with no sense of responsibility for their own actions.

reply to post by truejew


Then how did you miss there is unity in the plurality of God even in the OT? Elohim is a plural noun used in singular context. He said " let US make man in our image".. " let US go down and confound their language..". When the terms "Creator" or "Maker" are used in the text the Hebrew word is also a plural verb used in a singular context. Why is that?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

"When the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense."

So, by that you mean, take things out of context and pretend the verse means what you want it to.

The Holy Spirit changes us "regeneration/sanctification" to will in us to align with God's will. That's what being born again is all about.

Cute little theory but not what the Bible says.
It looks like something you made up to support the "Free Grace" cult theory that people don't have to exercise free will and just go with the flow and whatever happens, it must just be God's will, leaving people with no sense of responsibility for their own actions.

The Bible is quite clear man is responsible for his own actions. However, the Bible is also quite clear that our regeneration is a work of God. Man cannot make himself born again, man cannot regenerate his formerly dead spirit. That's a work of the Holy Spirit.

The gospel is not humanocentric. Jesus saves, we don't save ourselves. God clearly teaches that no flesh will glory in His sight nor will He share His glory with another. No man will say in heaven that he is there because he tried harder than the guy down the street.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


The "us" in Genesis 1:26 was God speaking to the angels. In Genesis 1:27 we see that it was a "He" doing the creating. The OT plurals are not evidence of three gods. The Jews never believed it was and it would have contradicted the verses that teach one God. Don't you think it would be strange for the Jews to not understand their own language?

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The "us" in Genesis 1:26 was God speaking to the angels. In Genesis 1:27 we see that it was a "He" doing the creating. The OT plurals are not evidence of three gods. The Jews never believed it was and it would have contradicted the verses that teach one God. Don't you think it would be strange for the Jews to not understand their own language?

Angels cannot create man. And the Jews believed in the Father and the Ruach ha'Kodesh, that's at minimum two persons of the Trinity. And thirdly, yet again.. God IS One God. Trinitarians do not believe in multiple gods, but three persons making up the Godhead. Does it not bother you what John says about the person or persons who would deny the relationship between the Father and the Son?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

The Bible is quite clear man is responsible for his own actions. However, the Bible is also quite clear that our regeneration is a work of God. Man cannot make himself born again, man cannot regenerate his formerly dead spirit. That's a work of the Holy Spirit.

The gospel is not humanocentric. Jesus saves, we don't save ourselves. God clearly teaches that no flesh will glory in His sight nor will He share His glory with another. No man will say in heaven that he is there because he tried harder than the guy down the street.

You are not addressing your claim, and my counter-claim concerning will and Philippians 2:13.
FYI: I spent a couple hours yesterday looking at commentaries on Philippians to see if there was any support for your interpretation and did not find anything like it. This reinforces my opinion that you are quoting a source from within the "Free Grace" cult.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Your scholarship leaves much to be desired. I went to the Matthew Henry concise and on fhe first try found this:

—To will and to do: he gives the whole ability. It is the grace of God which inclines the will to that which is good: and then enables us to perform it, and to act according to our principles. Thou hast wrought all our works in us, Isa. 26:12 . Of his good pleasure. As there is no strength in us, so there is no merit in us. As we cannot act without God’s grace, so we cannot claim it, nor pretend to deserve it. God’s good will to us is the cause of his good work in us; and he is under no engagements to his creatures, but those of his gracious promise.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Your scholarship leaves much to be desired. I went to the Matthew Henry concise and on fhe first try found this:

What you just quoted is not a commentary on Philippians 2:13.
And besides, the Henry comment you did quote does not support your theses that God replaces your will with His.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Your scholarship leaves much to be desired. I went to the Matthew Henry concise and on fhe first try found this:

What you just quoted is not a commentary on Philippians 2:13.
And besides, the Henry comment you did quote does not support your theses that God replaces your will with His.

edit on 23-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

That's exactly what is it commenting on. "Philippians chapter 2". You cant be this bad at scholarship. The above statement is MH's commentary of the statement "to will and to do" (beginning of the quoted material) of verse 13 of chapter 2. And I never said God replaces my will with His. I said the Holy Spirit aligns our will to align with God's will so that we want to do what God wants us to do. That's sanctification/regeneration.

Be my guest, look at "Philippians chapter 2" of MH's commentary. Or are you next going to slander MH?


Matthew Henry ~ Philippians chapter 2

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Angels cannot create man.

I never said they could.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

And the Jews believed in the Father and the Ruach ha'Kodesh, that's at minimum two persons of the Trinity.

Can you prove that they believed them to be separate gods?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

And thirdly, yet again.. God IS One God. Trinitarians do not believe in multiple gods, but three persons making up the Godhead.

If someone has three cats, but claims that they are only one cat, they still have three cats.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Does it not bother you what John says about the person or persons who would deny the relationship between the Father and the Son?

Your twisting of that Scripture does not bother me. I just hope it does not deceive others.

reply to post by truejew


Yes you did, you said when God made the statement "let US make man in OUR image" he was talking to the angels. Angels cannot create man, angels are creation, not Creator. And no one can prove the the Jews believed in two "gods". Two personhoods of the One true God are not two Gods. It's one God who exists in multiple personhoods. And your cat analogy is terrible. Here is a better one. Man is soul, spirit and body. When the body dies the soul and spirit move along to the afterlife. Is man one human or three humans? Man was created in the image and likeness of God. Man exists as a 3 part singular entity, just as God exists as three persons existing in total unity. He is One God, as man is one human.

And there is no "twisting". John said there us a spirit that denies the relationship between the father and the Son. All other religions, cults, et cetra deny the Son of God. Islam central doctrine is that Jesus is not the Son of God. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and every Christian cult are united in their rejection of the Sonship of Christ.