Eternal Torment In Hell

It does say that people go to hell.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Originally posted by RightInTwo
It does say that people go to hell.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

No one is debating if you go to hell or not. I was posting, if you don't burn in hell, what actually happens? I should have worded it different.

reply to post by SilentKoala


Generally speaking, when the Bible talks about stars it is referring to Angels.

The Bible does mention Angels being cast down to earth.

Originally posted by drivers1492
It would seem that hell isn't eternal from scripture correct?

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So here hell is cast into the lake of fire. The question would seem to simply be is the torment forever. Revelation 14:9-11 seems to allude to that.

Yes! Yes!

The closest thing we find in the Bible to the entity most people think of as "Hell" is the Lake of Fire. However, if Hell is to be cast into the Lake of Fire, then the Lake of Fire can not be Hell.

Further, if Hell and Death are cast into the Lake of Fire, implying that they are destroyed, then how can anyone after that be either dead or in Hell? It makes no sense. The wording here seems ambiguous - death is cast into the Lake of Fire, and that is the second death? Further, some people are also cast into the Lake of Fire, so I (for one) must assume that these people are not to be thrown there for destruction.

reply to post by jhill76


Ya know I have put a lot of thought into this very subject over the years. Here are my thoughts.... As a mystic thinker.

We are light beings. We, humans, belong to the light.

Our minds are very swayed while on the Earth plane and with that our thoughts should be controlled by the host itself ( the human) or let them go at will to something of greater and or positive energies. Unless you strive for a negative life with negative thoughts.

When we take our last breath we experience first hand our life all over again only we also experience the feelings we caused others to feel. Like, a life review.

If we have lived a negative life focused on negative feelings such as anger, jealousy, and fear then we will have to dump those energies before we can go to a higher dimension where we actually belong and will be. Did the host experience and focus on love or fear?

Its all in the mind until we make the full transition back to light and love verses the darkness that shadows our soul. Dumping the negativity is a place one may call hell but it is my belief the ones who can only bare light are the ones who will be with the most high in the evolution process of the soul/star.

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Later in Revelation it says that all those who accepted the mark were also thrown in where the beast was thrown.

But of course, this is the same book that says "the stars in the sky fell to the earth" or something like that so it's not exactly a credible source of information.

This is also the same book that teaches that-
1) The Earth is round - Isaiah 40:22, Job 26:10
2) The Earth floats in space - again, Isaiah 40:22 (God "hangs the earth on nothing")
3) Expansion of the universe Isaiah 40:22 again (God "stretches out the Heavens")
4) Conservation of Mass Energy - matter cannot come into existence by itself, John 1:3 states God made everything, and without Him NOTHING can be made. It also suggests that nothing will cease to exist, in Colossians 1:17, since if all things consist, and God is sustaining them (Hebrews 1:3), then matter is eternal.
5) Number of the stars - Bible always uses the stars in reference to numbers that are exceedingly big. God promised Abraham that his descendants would number the "stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is on the sea shore" in Genesis 22:17. Could you count the sand on the beaches? The stars in the sky? It wasn't always believed that there were numerous stars either - Claudius Ptolemy in AD 150 cataloged 1,022 stars in The Almagest, for example.
6) Ordinances of Heaven and Earth - "rules of the universe" essentially. Jeremiah 33:25 suggests that both the heavens and Earth follow specific rules set forth by God. In reality, they do. Laws of Nature are consistent and logical, because our Creator is consistent and logical.
7) The God specifically says, in Job 38:31 - "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?" - wasn't until the last hundred years we were able to discover, well.. Pleiades is "bound" and Orion has "loose cords". The gravitational pull of Pleiades, for example, is binding the stars together, as they try to escape each other.

All in all, the Bible is not a science book, but it has been, 100%, scientifically accurate.

The "stars falling from the heavens to the Earth" could be Angels, as they were always referred to as stars.

Or it could literally be stars.

Originally posted by RightInTwo
It does say that people go to hell.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Um, no. It's the second death, just like it says. You cease to exist at all. No eternal burning and screaming, and all that.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Later in Revelation it says that all those who accepted the mark were also thrown in where the beast was thrown.

But of course, this is the same book that says "the stars in the sky fell to the earth" or something like that so it's not exactly a credible source of information.

This is also the same book that teaches that-
1) The Earth is round - Isaiah 40:22, Job 26:10
2) The Earth floats in space - again, Isaiah 40:22 (God "hangs the earth on nothing")
3) Expansion of the universe Isaiah 40:22 again (God "stretches out the Heavens")
4) Conservation of Mass Energy - matter cannot come into existence by itself, John 1:3 states God made everything, and without Him NOTHING can be made. It also suggests that nothing will cease to exist, in Colossians 1:17, since if all things consist, and God is sustaining them (Hebrews 1:3), then matter is eternal.
5) Number of the stars - Bible always uses the stars in reference to numbers that are exceedingly big. God promised Abraham that his descendants would number the "stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is on the sea shore" in Genesis 22:17. Could you count the sand on the beaches? The stars in the sky? It wasn't always believed that there were numerous stars either - Claudius Ptolemy in AD 150 cataloged 1,022 stars in The Almagest, for example.
6) Ordinances of Heaven and Earth - "rules of the universe" essentially. Jeremiah 33:25 suggests that both the heavens and Earth follow specific rules set forth by God. In reality, they do. Laws of Nature are consistent and logical, because our Creator is consistent and logical.
7) The God specifically says, in Job 38:31 - "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?" - wasn't until the last hundred years we were able to discover, well.. Pleiades is "bound" and Orion has "loose cords". The gravitational pull of Pleiades, for example, is binding the stars together, as they try to escape each other.

All in all, the Bible is not a science book, but it has been, 100%, scientifically accurate.

The "stars falling from the heavens to the Earth" could be Angels, as they were always referred to as stars.

Or it could literally be stars.

edit on 14-7-2012 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)

It's also the book that says the mustard seed is the smallest seed in the world.
And that in order to prolong a day, the sun stood still. (Even if you take that to mean the earth stopped rotating, all life as we know it would be utterly destroyed by such an event.)
100% scientifically accurate? Don't make me laugh.

If we look at actual Near Death Experiences, we understand that it is more of an individual thing. You will translatea the Light and Darkness based on your belief systems that are familiar to you.

My best advice is to keep it simle.

Light = Affection (Love)
Darkness = Hiding and Conquering (Power / Control- Lack of Love).

When you have affection (Love) for others, this leads to Caring and Sharing.

When you do not walk with Light, you walk in Darkness (absence of light - hell). This is why it is a struggle to survive there they are controlling striving for power, very angry beings...

Originally posted by arpgme
If we look at actual Near Death Experiences, we understand that it is more of an individual thing. You will translatea the Light and Darkness based on your belief systems that are familiar to you.

My best advice is to keep it simle.

Light = Affection (Love)
Darkness = Hiding and Conquering (Power / Control- Lack of Love).

When you have affection (Love) for others, this leads to Caring and Sharing.

When you do not walk with Light, you walk in Darkness (absence of light - hell). This is why it is a struggle to survive there they are controlling striving for power, very angry beings...

edit on 14-7-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)

Yeah and i think its interesting to note that a lot of Christians visit hell more than say an atheist in a nde....why is this when studying nde's? Belief in it and belief you may not have been good enough? I dont know.

reply to post by jhill76

It only states the beast and the false prophet is tormented, not man.

Revelation 21 contains a list of those who will be tossed into the Lake of Fire, which does include people. Whether they will be subjected to equal or lesser torment than the beast and his false prophet is not specified. One thing seems clear however, the Lake of Fire is not a vacation spot, it's definitely meant to be horrible.

The Bible never presents a clear portrait of Hell. It tosses around words like Gehenna, Sheol, Abaddon, etc and never clarifies what it's talking about. Jesus mentions that you should be more afraid of God than of man because God can throw you body and soul into Hell, yet many Christians believe hell is a place where your spirit will be tormented, not you physically. Yet there is also mention of weeping and wailing, which requires lungs and gnashing of teeth, teeth would be of little use to a spirit.

The idea of Hell as fiery, or as a Lake of Fire, is also confusing if we assume a non-physical state of being for those sent there. Can fire hurt a spirit? What is fueling the flames? Is God telekinetically keeping the fire burning?

There are those who believe hell simply destroys you, body and soul, so that you are truly dead. Honestly the idea of hell as simple annihilation makes Hell sound MORE appealing than Heaven. After all Heaven, in the eternal life sense, sounds AWFUL to anyone who actually thinks about it. Most human beings can't find things to fill all their free time here on Earth, and that's with the ability and freedom to sin. Now take away sinful behaviors, sinful thoughts, sadness, conflict, worry and trap yourself in a shining city with a bunch of folks similarly constrained... and you're not just there for 100 years, or 1000, or 10 Billion, or 100 trillion, you're stuck there unendingly.

You're going to run out of things to do, it's an inevitable fact of complete infinite immortality. The 10 millionth year of harp lessons isn't going to be fun. Even if each and every human being were given god-like power and allowed to roam the cosmos in all its beauty and wonder you would eventually get bored, it might take a few trillion years but inevitably you will run out of things to do or learn or create. I don't know about the rest of you but eternal life wouldn't take long to turn into eternal torment for me, especially without the low emotions (fear, anger, sadness) to balance and give meaning to the joy. The prospect of simply being dead, as in non-existent, isn't very attractive, but compared to the prospect of living in perpetuity it's far better.

The truth is that the Bible is vague, perhaps even self-contradictory, about the subject. One thing seems clear though, many Christians DO accept the idea of Hell as eternal torment and so long as that belief is held it is valid to offer as criticism against Christianity. The very idea of a perflectly loving God tormenting anyone, be they demon, "beast", or man, is nonsensical.

reply to post by Lionhearte




I find it kind of funny how so many put off the Bible, yet it tells so much about the world around us that we seem to only have proven to know in the last so many years.

Who would have ever thought that those pesky jews from 4000 years ago would know so much about our universe with nothing at all as a tool to gather such information.

me thinks there is way more than meets the eye here. Sometimes I think about all of this and often, there is usually a feeling inside, something bigger than a gut feeling, that tells me it's all true. (Shrugs) I'll find out for sure at some point, I'm sure. Till then, it's wonderful thinking about such things.

Originally posted by SilentKoala

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by SilentKoala
Later in Revelation it says that all those who accepted the mark were also thrown in where the beast was thrown.

But of course, this is the same book that says "the stars in the sky fell to the earth" or something like that so it's not exactly a credible source of information.

This is also the same book that teaches that-
1) The Earth is round - Isaiah 40:22, Job 26:10
2) The Earth floats in space - again, Isaiah 40:22 (God "hangs the earth on nothing")
3) Expansion of the universe Isaiah 40:22 again (God "stretches out the Heavens")
4) Conservation of Mass Energy - matter cannot come into existence by itself, John 1:3 states God made everything, and without Him NOTHING can be made. It also suggests that nothing will cease to exist, in Colossians 1:17, since if all things consist, and God is sustaining them (Hebrews 1:3), then matter is eternal.
5) Number of the stars - Bible always uses the stars in reference to numbers that are exceedingly big. God promised Abraham that his descendants would number the "stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is on the sea shore" in Genesis 22:17. Could you count the sand on the beaches? The stars in the sky? It wasn't always believed that there were numerous stars either - Claudius Ptolemy in AD 150 cataloged 1,022 stars in The Almagest, for example.
6) Ordinances of Heaven and Earth - "rules of the universe" essentially. Jeremiah 33:25 suggests that both the heavens and Earth follow specific rules set forth by God. In reality, they do. Laws of Nature are consistent and logical, because our Creator is consistent and logical.
7) The God specifically says, in Job 38:31 - "Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?" - wasn't until the last hundred years we were able to discover, well.. Pleiades is "bound" and Orion has "loose cords". The gravitational pull of Pleiades, for example, is binding the stars together, as they try to escape each other.

All in all, the Bible is not a science book, but it has been, 100%, scientifically accurate.

The "stars falling from the heavens to the Earth" could be Angels, as they were always referred to as stars.

Or it could literally be stars.

edit on 14-7-2012 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)

It's also the book that says the mustard seed is the smallest seed in the world.
And that in order to prolong a day, the sun stood still. (Even if you take that to mean the earth stopped rotating, all life as we know it would be utterly destroyed by such an event.)
100% scientifically accurate? Don't make me laugh.

So if you find a book containing all the answers to the worlds mysteries, and you find most of them to be accurate... do you discount the whole book or take what you know is right and ponder why the other info is the way it is?


Yeah, that's a really sneaky question, so think really closely. You wouldnt want to contradict yourself.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


I agree with everything yoi just said.

Not having a body per se but maybe when you go there first its a longer transition than say going to a better realm? I dont know.... Just thinking.

Maybe we still have our human senses until we release fears or negative issues we are still hanging onto.

If NDE's are right, then hell in some form exists even for the person transitioning in some fashion, and again maybe its all in the mind.

Im inclined to believe in reincarnation too. But thats for a different thread.

To answer the Ops question about what may occur in hell, its complex. Based on NDE's the person feels a sense of fear and torment. They smell a stinch as in decaying corpses. Doesnt sound good, I know. Lots and lots of experiences seem to involve Jesus too.

reply to post by jhill76


Hell is on Earth, and humans with their greed have caused it to become hell.

We are all angels within the kingdom OF god, meaning god and his kingdom are not separate, they are one in the same.

Some of these angels (us) become greedy and want more power, these angels are referred to as Lucifer in the bible. These greedy ones among us take advantage of nature and start ripping it down and over-using it for their own profit. When this happens, heaven is turned into the so called 'hell' and the greedy ones (Lucifer) are the ones that run this 'hell'.

The false prophet is a metaphor for money while the beast represents Lucifer.

What religion does is separate us from heaven, it makes us feel as though we are inferior and that this life doesn't matter, that what's after this life is what matters, and as long as you believe in its false god, you will make it into heaven.

When we feel inferior, we are more easily manipulated and that manipulation gives others power over us, and religion is the main culprit when it comes to manipulating us. Religion is a group of 'Lucifers' that preys on our fears of their made up hells.

I consider hell to be more of a separation from God. You make your own bed really. Either youre with him, or against him. If youre with him, you stay with him for eternity, bliss and happiness all around . If youre against him, than you can not be in his presence. Which gets ugly I imagine. Its free will, so its only your fault. Thats how i see it at least.

I do believe in torment in hell.
I strive to not be there.
I have love in my heart for all humans though i believe that some do deserve punishment but i don't see from my perspective right now how if i end up in heaven i could find any kind of happiness or bliss knowing that the ones in hell were being eternally punished.
So maybe it will be only for a thousand years while the ones in hell are given a sort of second chance to find love and forgiveness.Then when their time is up some that finally get it will be brought to heaven and the rest destroyed eternally.

reply to post by deadeyedick




That brings something to mind.

I remember reading or watching a program where a woman was talkin about what the Virgin Mary was telling her. I dont remember details of the story, but she was told that, like everyone, she would have to spend time in the lake of fire. Everyone would because the sin had to be burned away. At the time, had she died then, she would have had to go through 24 hours of this fire to be clensed. Some less, some more.

I dont really hold much on this story, but I did think it was kind of interesting. What if you do have to go through the fire, like everyone else, the time spend depends on the amount of sin within.


Out there, I know.. but then, so seems much of everything.

Most people are in hell because they believe the thoughts (words/image) that they hear. They believe the beast that speaks to them instead of seeing what is really here.
Heaven is right here and right now but humans live in time and time only appears in the mind made stories. Live in the mind made story made of time and you will suffer. Or live here and now and be free from the torment.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Thats actually interesting. But one problem.... How does one detach themselves from stories and see the "real world" of heaven? Have you seen it? What does it look like? Why are you not still there?

Seriously... if you know of such a thing, you must share all the know hows too, since you know of it and no one else I know does.