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Eternal Torment In Hell

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posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 




This is why there are too many variables to condemn an individual to eternal damnation for an Evil Event.


Correct. So, why do many people tell others they are going to hell for single acts?




posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


Correct. So, why do many people tell others they are going to hell for single acts?


To both control them, and take their money off of them.

Two things all churches love, power and cold hard cash.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 11:04 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


You tell me..Man. I just post here. LOL! Obvious quote modified from John Cameron Directed and Written ALIENS sceenplay! LOL! Split Infinity



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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Matthew 7:13

Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.


So what is destruction if not Hell?

God is not stupid. If the greatest commandments are “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself." and if we don't, He knows it. You can fool yourself, but you can't fool God.

I do not turn a deaf ear to the words of Jesus no matter how uncomfortable they might be. I trust in His mercy and justice.

What kind of loving God sends someone to Hell?

or

What kind of loving God sends to Hell someone who loves Him with all their heart, soul and mind, and who loves his neighbor as he loves himself?

God knows how you feel about Him, yourself and others and therein lies the answer.

Don't wait until you die to make God your intimate friend.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by bias12

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


Correct. So, why do many people tell others they are going to hell for single acts?


To both control them, and take their money off of them.

Two things all churches love, power and cold hard cash.


I see. So, what about the individuals that are in the street judging, or even here on ATS.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 11:20 PM
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Too bad Hell doesn't exist...
2nd



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


Hrm. Think of it this way:

I , as a parent, know how to handle a pair of scissors. I've used them for years. One could even say that I have mastery over them. Now, I've never stabbed anyone with them, bu due to knowing how pointy things can stab, I've go the ability to kill with my pair of scissors. The potential is very evil, although I'd never practice this, due to having mastered the purpose of scissors.

Now, as this parent who has mastered scissors, I shouldn't just hand over these potential weapons to my 5 year old without some training, right? the moment I hand over these scissors to my child and tell them: "careful, these can cut you and hurt you", then my child has KNOWLEDGE of the danger of scissors, but nowhere near the MASTERY. Without micromanaging, the kid is likely to find out first-hand that scissors can potentially kill you--especialyl when you let them run with them.

Their lack of nuance over scissors can be wrong, or a sin, if you will, in my child, but scissors in my hand? Not likely.

The difference is that God's not dealing with Children, where Sin is accounted at. He's dealing with adults, over subjects that are far more frightening than how to cut with scissors, without maiming. The sin is mostly in the lack of experience, or deliberately misusing tools given to us: hence why "Sin" literally means "to miss the target", specifically in Archery. Yes, the raw potential is there for God to "Sin" if you will, the problem is that being the creature that created how this universe runs, he would have to forget how scissors work on a galactic scale, to actually sin. Not likely.

Remember, the whole focus of Christianity is about growth. Kind of hard to have that without some Mastery over some sins.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by CynicalDrivel
 


In the same way you equate an Adults Mastery of knowledge of what a pair of scissors can due....can it also be reasonable to use this as an analogy to what Mastery an All Powerful GOD has over an Adult Human.

Again...Logic does not JIVE! Split Infinity



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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I've come to the point where I try not to read, later posts, until I have formulated my own personal opinion. So here it goes.

We are already in eternal torment trying to fix the world in which we live. We are in the trials of our own soul matrix. We are in a position where we are frightened. We think we are stuck in the muck, so to speak. But, this is never reality - we are just in a born state of turmoil. Call it KARMA.

We decide as a non-believer to cease to exist at death. Atheists will be given their wish if they so desire....

Or we decide as a believer, to atone and reincarnate. (Though we are not limited to this world or this universe.) There are a multitude of heavens open up to us who wish to move forward in spirit...

It is that simple. Try to make it harder than it is not. It is not hard. YOU WILL GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT! The universe follows science, a mathematical pattern, even down to our essence....in the end, if you want to end, your coding will give you your desire.

You decide...so decide.
edit on 14-7-2012 by CirqueDeTruth because: proposition



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by jhill76
 


If your child did such a thing, would you not wonder where such blame lies? I would blame myself more than I blame them. If I taught them better, they would not do such a thing. Would I punish them for my #ty teaching? No.


You only have so much influence over your children.

I feel that I grew up from a "good kid"... At least my family would tell you this.

But.. How many things happened, took place, done by my own actions, that my family never, and will probably never know of? Quite a bit, easily. Think about the things your parents dont know about. Do you honestly think your parents are to blame? Or at some point do you grow up and take up your own responcibilities?


If all gets to go, then what of those that lived rightously al their lives, to recieve the same reward by another man who butchered his family, but repented before death, or was not cast ultimatly in to the lake of fire.

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing Jeffrey Dahlmer and Michael Perry will be sitting at the pearly gates waiting to welcome me in when it's my time. If this is the case, I feel a great unfairness would have been played. So what of all those people who lived right? Vs those that did not? The reward is the same, so why bother being decent to one another on earth?

Same thing goes for athiests. No god? why does your actions make a diffrence?


Somehow I think that heaven would quite a bit more fair towards those that lived right compared to those that did not and had no belief at all.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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If it is true (which I know its not) I just think I will get used to all things 'hell' after about 100 years or so......

Another flogging sir?.... Sure why not! Cut off your willy again sir? Yes, but use the two handed sword this time ok.....

Mickierocksman



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by bias12
 




No I think either everyone "made it" so to speak, unlikely but I'm willing to be proved wrong, or, death is just the end of life, the termination of our biological existence.


If this is the case, why did Jesus come? Just to tell everyone how to live, or something else?


Perhaps he came to show people how to make the world and themselves ready for the coming of the kingdom of heaven on earth?

Within the Bible specifically it seems like there are (for whatever reasons) certain... Mechanisms, or series of events that must happen before God can act. Maybe Jesus was here to plant a seed, so to speak or even several so that these series of events could eventually play out and come to pass.

People get a bit snarly when one insinuates that perhaps salvation of individual souls from eternal damnation was not the only purpose for Jesus, so I may be putting myself in the line of fire here, but I don't think that the Son-of-God-on-Earth-to-Save-the-Human-Race Mechanism is as quite as straight forward as people like to think of it.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by SilentKoala
Later in Revelation it says that all those who accepted the mark were also thrown in where the beast was thrown.


Did it?

Revelation 19:20

20) And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

If we read this closely it says "these both were cast alive into a lake of fire", which is obviously referring to the beast and the false prophet.

The fact that the remark about the "mark of the beast" is used to describe one of the things that the false prophet did to deceive people, it doesn't actually appear those who received the mark were included in "these both".

However, I think it just depends on what version of the scripture your reading. Or there's another verse somewhere else to compare it against?

That's why I always refer to the KJV.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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Here are the verses I was looking for.

Revelation 14:9-11

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So, once again, is there eternal torment or not?

Help us out here, JHill76.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:51 AM
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... he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb


Isn't he just a peach?
Who knew the omni-benevolent creator of the universe is going to spend the rest of eternity masturbating to torture porn...



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 08:53 AM
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However, it does appear that the entire gospel and truth will be revealed to mankind before they have to choose whether or not to accept the mark or worship the beast.

Revelation 14:6-10

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by bias12

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


Correct. So, why do many people tell others they are going to hell for single acts?


To both control them, and take their money off of them.

Two things all churches love, power and cold hard cash.

And don't forget Energy. Churches collect Energy and it goes to something no one knows, they only have a name and a persona to know it by.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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It would seem that hell isn't eternal from scripture correct?

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So here hell is cast into the lake of fire. The question would seem to simply be is the torment forever. Revelation 14:9-11 seems to allude to that.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:59 AM
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For the purposes of this post, I will be using the KJV bible, and taking it literally for what it says:

The question before us then, is whether or not there is a literal hell, and whether or not it is a place some are destined for without Christ as the propitiation for their sins.

Luke 16:22-31

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

So was Jesus being serious here? Or was he just telling a scary parable around the campfire? Well, interestingly enough, Jesus reiterates the premise of this parable again and again. So it would seem he was serious.

Mark 9:43-50

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 5:22

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


But is hell eternal? Yes and no.
Revelation 20:12-15

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

From these verses we can see that hell will hand over its dead(those eternally separated from God) to the lake of fire. So yes, in that it is eternal torment. And no, in that hell will cease to have prisoners at some point.

So, just from these few examples in the bible, we can see that hell is considered a very real place, and a very real threat to those who are not "in Christ". It is more than just a cemetery, or a ceasing to exist. It is an eternal torment, and separation from God, with no hope of repeal.
edit on 7/14/2012 by Klassified because: clarity

edit on 7/14/2012 by Klassified because: spelling



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
Here are the verses I was looking for.

Revelation 14:9-11

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

So, once again, is there eternal torment or not?

Help us out here, JHill76.


Rev 20:13-15


The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.


Many differ on this. Some say the first death is physical, and the second death is spiritual as evident from this verse:

Matt. 10:28


Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.


In the above verse, he wasn't talking about Satan, but Father, just in case people wanted to equate destroying in hell with the one who will be there.

But, if you look back at the above Revelations verse, it says hell was thrown into the lake, along with those who were not written in the book of life. So, one could assume, when Jesus and John spoke of hell, it was either two different places, or two different meanings.



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