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Unexpected Hanging Paradox

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posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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Just strange. Some people say that they got this figured out. And yet it has baffled the greatest minds in philosophy and mathematics for years and years.

If you got it figured out, then submit. I am sure they would love to hear about it.




posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


This isn't a paradox. The military will sometimes give advance notice of exercises like this, but not give specific dates/times on purpose. It is a way to get people ready for exercises. Sounds stupid I know, but it gets people into a certain mode of thinking and to adjust priorities. The advance notice can in this context be part of the exercise itself in a sense.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by freedomguy
 


But you know that it wont happen on Friday, correct? That's a knowledge.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


Our chief weapon is surprise!

...Surprise and fear...fear and surprise....

Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency....

Our three weapons are fear, and surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope....

Our four...no...

...Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms - Oh damn, can we try this again?



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


The only day it couldn't be is Friday. Friday does not disappear just because he cannot be hanged then. He could be surprised on Wednesday, because it could still happen on Thursday. He could be surprised on Tuesday, 'cause it could still happen on Wednesday, or Thursday. He could be surprised on Monday, because it could still happen on Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. Not a paradox, just an attempt to twist the logic and the information provided.

The real paradox of life, is the intersection of parallel lines.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


makes sense to me,..,.,,.,.,.,. the judge told him he would be hung next week.,,.,..,..,,. he does not tell him the day he will be hung,,.,.,.,. so the prisoner would be surprised.,.,,..,, therefore regardless of what the prisoner thinks,,, he truly does not know what day he will be hung,.,.,.,.,. the prisoner using his reasoning works backwards and figures no day would be a surprise with his working backwards at it,,,, and so the prisoner believes that he cant be surprised.,,.,.,.,. and then,,., come wednesday,,, knock knock,.,.,., what a surprise,,, hes going to be hung,..,.,,. from the beginning what the judge said was true,,,, it would be a surprise any way.,.,,.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:51 AM
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my favorite paradox is,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.


whatever you do, do not believe this sentence, it is not true.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 




Some authors have claimed that the self-referential nature of this statement is the source of the paradox. Fitch[5] has shown that this statement can still be expressed in formal logic. Using an equivalent form of the paradox which reduces the length of the week to just two days, he proved that although self-reference is not illegitimate in all circumstances, it is in this case because the statement is self-contradictory.


The judge's statement loops back to itself. Think Godel



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


I don't think it's a paradox at all. The judge's statement simply contains enough information for the prisoner to get so long on that little logical train he goes down. But the prisoner could have thought further and considered "but now that I've devised that no day can be the day, any day can be the day." Then he's left back at square one.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by snusfanatic
 




But the prisoner could have thought further and considered "but now that I've devised that no day can be the day, any day can be the day." Then he's left back at square one.


Therefore, not a surprise.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by ImaFungi
 




Some authors have claimed that the self-referential nature of this statement is the source of the paradox. Fitch[5] has shown that this statement can still be expressed in formal logic. Using an equivalent form of the paradox which reduces the length of the week to just two days, he proved that although self-reference is not illegitimate in all circumstances, it is in this case because the statement is self-contradictory.


The judge's statement loops back to itself. Think Godel


what do you mean? did you read what i wrote? can you point out where im wrong in my line of thinking? I dont feel like reading the paradox again,,,, but maybe i did miss something,,,, so if you show me what i said wrong ill read again and try to respond better.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by snusfanatic
 




But the prisoner could have thought further and considered "but now that I've devised that no day can be the day, any day can be the day." Then he's left back at square one.


Therefore, not a surprise.


no,,, therefore a surprise,,,,, square one is the prisoner not knowing what day he will be hanged,..,., the judge said he will be surprised,,,, the judge was correct


if anything the paradox is within the prisoners attempt at deduction..... it cant be friday,,, because if he wasnt hung by thursday then friday wouldnt surprise him,,, it cant be thursday,,, because if he wasnt hung by wednesday thursday wouldnt surprise him,,,,, it cant be wednesday because if he wasnt hung by tuesday wednesday would not surprise him,,, it cant be tuesday because if he wasnt hung on monday tuesday wouldnt surprise him,,,, thats the basis of the paradox,,,, stupid thinking by a prisoner..
edit on 9-7-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


But the prisoner coming to the conclusion that 'any day between monday or friday could be the day' is simply a restatement of the Judge's initial order. The exact day, however, is still unknown to the prisoner. My point is:

The friday-monday system that the prisoner devised is flawed, because he fails to take that last little step (the step that the story itself conveys at the end). The prisoner just doesn't think things through all the way, but the story draws you in where the reader is like "oh cool, that's true...oh wait, you got me story! good job story!"



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


Just basically this story can be reduced to this...

if the judge told you that tomorrow you will be executed and that you will be surprised.

Would you be surprised? What would your reasoning be?

I am getting tired too lol.

Thanks for replying.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


thats completely changing the idea,,,,,, its simple enough.,,.,.,.,,.,.

if you want to use your day scenario of ,..,,., im deffinitly getting hung tomorow.,,.,. then i will make it more similar to the original paradox by saying,.,.,..., I do not know what time tomorow,.,..,.. the judge tells me I will be surprised,.,.,,..,. I have no clue what time tomorow i will be hung,,.,,..., the judge is right,,, i will be surprised..,



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 


No it doesn't change it as I have quoted in another post.

Him being hanged ANY day within the week doesn't come as a surprise to him. He doesn't know what day, but he KNOWS he'll be hanged.

The judge said he will be surprised. So the prisoner figured that it can't happen on Friday since that's the last day. He reasons his way back to Monday. He trusts the judge to hold his ruling.

One week, one year, one day... makes no difference. They're all equivalent.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


nope,,,,,, when the prisoner was sentenced he knew he would be hung in the future,..,.,.,., the next week actually,.,.,.,. the only amount of surprise was on what day of the week he would be hung,.,.,., the judge didnt tell him what day of the week he was going to be hung.,,.,. thats the surprise,.,.,



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


do you get it?


your the prisoner,,,,,, im the judge

today is sunday.,,.,.,. your guilty.,,.,..,,. next week youll be hanged.,.,,..,., it will be a surprise what day youll be hanged.,.,.,.


now you the prisoner,.,.,.,.., what day will you be hanged??



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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The prisoner makes a mistake in his reasoning. He says it can't be Thursday if he is hanged by Wednesday night. But the judge told him it would be at noon. So he is surprised when it's in wednesday at noon.



posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Deaf Alien
It's a logical paradox. It hasn't been resolved to this day.


I don't know that it resolves it, but the error being made is in the use of the word "know", when the correct tern is "infer". He doesn't "know" that he would be executed on Friday, were he still alive Thursday night, he infers it. Inference involves assumption, not knowledge, and it all unravels from there.



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