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Roll-Your-Own Tobacco Stores May Cease To Exist Under New Law

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posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 05:37 AM
Big news but not new news. I've had this feeling for sometime now that cigarettes will be outsourced or even when governments fall.
When the tax hike hit in 2009 april to be fact. I went in circles on omg what to do. (yes Im an addict) class J which is pipe tobacco is the loophole and if they(gov) wants to kill the business. they are doing a mighty fine job and I doubt their excuss-"health reasons", is crock to me.

this is one way to create a prohibition (like the gun thread posted recently) by outsourceing or non-existent.

I knew I needed to start stocking up a few months back and I keep putting it off. but thanks to the OP. you sure opened my eyes this morning.

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 06:57 AM
reply to post by Honor93

Simple. It applies to loose tobacco because the people you are buying the tobacco from are not selling you loose tobacco. They re selling you cigarettes. Just because you have to take part in the manufacturing process does not mean that they are not manufacturing them on site. Because, in essence, that is what they are doing.

Like i have said countless times, it isn't like i agree with them. Only that I understand them, because it is the same in many other things (like booze). It is a highly, highly regulated industry. Sucks, but in Amerika that is the way things are.

Now, if those people around your place that made home brewed beer want to sell that beer to someone, then they become a manufacturer and must have a license. You seem to be missing the key element of commerce here. Once it becomes a commerce issue (i.e., someone is making money), then it becomes regulated via the tax scam that our government has. Everything you say about self checkouts is silly and has absolutely no bearing on our conversation. I am talking apples and you keep trying to compare them to bumper brackets.

Now, when i say "fair", i mean that all tobacco companies must follow the same rules. Otherwise, RJ Reynolds could just let you come into their factory, buy some loose tobacco, then roll your own cartons of cigarettes. You could have a whole truckload ready to go in about 20 minutes, probably. That would certainly bring the price down, huh? But that isn't the way it works. There are legalities in place. Legalities that the roll your own were side stepping.

Now, until you can differentiate between how the government views tobacco (highly regulated) and how the government views teddy bear (build a bear is not regulated at all), you likely will remain chopped liver. Look up what excise tax is (someone old like you and I would likely know it as "the sin tax").

BTW. I recall smoking on flights back in the day. I am not as young as you seem to think I am.

edit on 9-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:30 AM

Originally posted by stanguilles7
Looks like these shops are misusing a loophole meant for pipe tobacco. This new law will correct that loophole. So?

The new federal law makes it harder for stores with roll-your-own cigarette machines to classify the tobacco they sell as pipe tobacco –- which is taxed at a lower rate than cigarette tobacco.

Want to smoke tobacco without paying taxes? Grow and cure your own. Problem, solution.

Shops are not misusing anything, the law never said anything about roll your own. You would probably wouldn't have any problems if the government add a new tax to anything they think is not health for you.

I will never get why people are fine for government to tax us so damn much.

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 07:40 AM
reply to post by Echo007

I agree. But to make THIS the straw that breaks the camels back just seems...strange.

We have had the price of cigarettes increase at 10x's the rate of inflation because of taxation, along with that bogus lawsuit that the US had against big tobacco a few years ago. We get pinched in so many ways. Government has become (and likely always has been and always will be) a cash company. Like the mafia, they are quick to find news ways to squeeze people for extra money.

The question we should all really be asking is, "Who voted for either a democrat or a republican in the last 12 years?"

THOSE are the ones you blame. They are the idiots who keep reelecting the boatmen to steered us into this sea of feces.

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 09:39 AM
reply to post by Daedal

I had never heard of a store that rolled cigarettes for you.. what do you know. Before I quit smoking 12 years ago, I used to roll my own by hand. I could roll just as good looking cigs myself as any machine and even with one hand while driving... That's the only thing I miss about smoking, the rolling part. You're right about the taste being different too, only I bet they've added even more things since I quit. I remember store bought cigarettes burning themselves down unless you snuffed them out. Someone on here says they now go out by themselves... hmmm, not when I used to smoke 'em.

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 11:20 AM
I too have been rolling my own tobacco for about 4 years. I buy bugler and I roll them by hand. I don't use a machine and I don't use filters. I can roll a cigarette by hand almost to perfection. I promised myself back then that if cigarettes went up to 5 dollars a pack I wouldn't buy premium anymore. And haven't since. I pay about 2.75 usd a pack... And a pack lasts me about 3 days. Anyhow I don't use the machines anyways.

To the guy above me, cigarettes now go out by themselves because they use carpet glue at certain points to snuff them out. This is used to prevent fires. But... Carpet glue? Wow... Pretty gross.
edit on 9-7-2012 by Enemyc0mbatant because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:15 PM
I'm not a smoker so i don't know how RYO machines work and money is exchanged.

However, if the consumer is only paying for the final product (the already rolled cigarets) then i would say yes the retailer is acting as a manufacture. But if you buy the tobacco/wrapping separately and only pay for the use of the machine then no, the retailer isn't acting as a manufacture.

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:15 PM
reply to post by Enemyc0mbatant

They use cornstarch, not carpet glue.

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 12:59 PM
So roll them at home or find someone to roll them for you.One of my cousins (A stay at home mom) has a cigarette rolling machine and sells cigarettes on the side to people she knows for 2.00 pack for throw away/vacation money since many think this is tedious to do themselves at home. She doesn't smoke but, found it an easy way to make some money on the side while watching movies when the kids are at school/napping.

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Honor93
to those using e-cigs, are you aware of their toxicity ?
i tried them, no thanks, then i came across stories like this one ...
WEDNESDAY, July 22 (HealthDay News) -- Testing of electronic cigarettes, known as e-cigarettes, has shown that they contain cancer-causing chemicals and other toxins, including a compound used in antifreeze, U.S. health officials said Wednesday.

there is diethylene glycol in most frozen foods, so everyone stop eating frozen foods like cool whip... Electronic cigarettes also contain Tetramethylpyrazine. An extended exposure to this substance will result in brain injury in human beings... then there is the risk of forest fires to worry about...

A blaze on June 20 in New Mexico has been blamed on an electronic cigarette. According to local news sources in the Albuquerque area, a government employee on the lookout for fires dropped an electronic cigarette while ducking under a tree limb. That e-cig sparked a fire that the employee could not put out before it got out of hand. The fire burned more than 350 acres. Authorities have already qualified the fire as accidental and stated they won’t be billing the individual for the incident.

I don’t buy this one for a minute. Someone is trying to cover up something and giving ecigs a bad name in the process. Not cool at all. I hate it when people pull stuff like this. It just makes it that much harder for the honest folks. If I was a betting man, which I am not, I would put my money on a real cigarette as the cause, but that is pure speculation at this point. This could very well be a case of the patrol employees involved in the incident covering their own butts (no pun intended). I would assume that any use of combustible materials (analog cigarettes included) is a big no-no for employees working in the area of heightened wildfire alerts. I am assuming that e-cig use was not forbidden before this fire, because the village is now considering a new ordinance that would prohibit electronic cigarettes in the area.

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 04:16 PM
reply to post by Daedal

Most of the stores I go to that sell RYO also sell cigarettes in packs. The funny thing is, for every one person that buys RYO, five or six people buy them in packs. Not only is it more convenient, but they are also more refined, so you get a pure taste designed for that precise brand and flavor. Only the people who have a taste for RYO or can't afford anything else would buy RYO. So what's the big deal?

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 05:36 PM
reply to post by PlurfectWorld

I have smoked American Spirit, it is very clean tasting.

posted on Jul, 9 2012 @ 11:13 PM
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
that's simply nuts.
i've been buying loose tobacco longer than these stores have been open.
often, i'll buy only a bag o'tobacco and sleeves/tubes.

they are separate items, shrink-wrapped and in a bag to go. (retail)
and that's another thing, if they are "manufacturers", why aren't we getting wholesale prices ???

i can choose to pay an additional fee for automation.
the store doesn't roll anything, i and the machine do.
the employees teach the operation of the machines and the clients DIY.
when does that ever happen in a tobacco Factory/processing plant?

see, here's an angle you aren't even considering, ppl can buy tobacco wholesale, online.
[avoiding a large chunk of "excise taxes" btw]

i can then take my raw product to a retailer and pay for the service of having it automatically packed.
[ever utilized a pack-n-ship store?]
again, if you say "no relation", i've gotta ask, what is the difference between the "service" of packing a box or the "service" of packing a smoke ??

when or where was the govt granted authority to restrict our available "services" ?

your comparison to alcohol is just plain silly.
the alcohol stores are not licensed or insured for "consumption".

oddly enough, the tobacco stores are public smoking facilities.
the smoke stores are licensed for retail sales and that is all they're doing.

they sell the raw product and they sell the service of automation.
no different than an automated car wash.
~ you can DIY, pay a small amount for some automation and still DIY, or pay a larger amount and get full automation ~ where is the difference ??
*** btw, those pressure sprayers can be quite dangerous

i don't agree with "that's the way things are", if they are, then they should be changed, as was prohibition and segregation.

i'm not missing the commerce concept, that's the whole dang point.
the commerce they engage in is Retail, nothing more.
selling raw product and a service. just like a restaurant.

apples and bumper brackets ??? are you serious?
apples and alcohol aren't equal either, but you keep going there.

retail stores are not "tobacco companies". if you want muddy waters, have at it.
in one breath, you say all manufacturers play by the same rules.
well, we know that's not so.

next breath you claim there are standard regulations that are being enforced, but don't quote or reference any that apply to retail stores providing a product and a service.

am not sure why you don't simply agree to disagree, as you are not swaying my opinion one iota. and IF tobacco is so "highly regulated", why can i grow it my backyard and consume it at my will ?

oh come on, "excise taxes"? sure, the loss of revenue from them and that my friend has only just begun.
Big tobacco wouldn't be crying if the ppl weren't rebelling with their pocketbooks and i say GOOD for America !!

ETA: btw, this legislation will produce another 11,000+ ppl unemployed.
Good job Congress/Baucus
edit on 10-7-2012 by Honor93 because: add txt

posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 12:19 AM
reply to post by wtbengineer

yes indeed, that was one of the worst additions ever ... stop-n-go smokes they're often called.
whatever chemical added was supposed to "prevent fires"
... not sure that's working out so well. is more an aggravation than anything ... conspiracy with the fuel companies i say
(zippo user)
but yeah, that was a bad one imho. don't seem to have that issue with self rolls.

posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:31 AM
reply to post by Honor93

oh my God. I can't say the same thing to you in any other ways. You just aren't understanding.

Perhaps you should just take it to the Supreme Court.
edit on 10-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 09:42 AM
i just bought a 12.5 gram pack of rolling tobacco at the local shop it cost $ 6.20 or £ 4.00 to me welcome to rip of scotland a pack of papers is 32p or 0.60 c hows that for tax

posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 10:01 AM

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Saphira
I'm solving my cigarette problem with an E-smoke. E-smokes vaporize liquid nicotine, so there is no combustion of paper, nor any smoke to inhale. It's simply vapour.
Big-pharma doesn't get my money anymore, nor do the tobacco companies. A "carton" of E-liquid runs me about $22, which is way cheaper than the $80 I was spending before. I no longer have a smokers cough, I don't smell like tobacco, and I can smoke my E-smoke anywhere!

I use one but only to get me through the last hour of work. I know it sounds absurd but the hit from e-cigs is harsher on the throat than regular smokes.

There really is no reason to inhale with an e-cigarette. The nicotine still gets into your system from your mouth and you still get the hand to mouth oral fixation effect. Oh, and e-cigs are actually banned indoors in many places. I used an e-cig for a few weeks and got a dirty look for using it indoors and a snide comment. I told the person "how about we all stop breathing? What is coming out of your lungs is effecting me to." Well thats what happens when people get a little power...should have added "and dont cough in my vicinity either"./*sarcasm*/

As far as rolling your own, it's weird because people still like to buy from the major brand companies and roll your own will always be in the minority. That is my observation.
edit on 10-7-2012 by Malcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 10:12 AM
Disgusting.USA has become a combination of fascism ,socialism and mass murder.

posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 12:30 PM

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Honor93

oh my God. I can't say the same thing to you in any other ways. You just aren't understanding.

Perhaps you should just take it to the Supreme Court.
edit on 10-7-2012 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)
i am understanding, both sides even and perhaps it's an argument worthy of the USSC at this point, as this is about individual rights, nothing more.

posted on Jul, 10 2012 @ 06:54 PM
reply to post by Honor93

Up against the tax gestapo, individual rights don't matter.

that is what you are not getting. There is a system. Either get in line, or yell at the wall. It is easier to get in line so you can avoid all this stress.

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