Roll-Your-Own Tobacco Stores May Cease To Exist Under New Law

reply to post by Honor93


All bs.. Do a little more research

I have been researching for a couple years now and this is all big pharma propaganda.. Basically lies.

A lot of doctors including my own even believe there is a smear campaign fronted by big pharma against e cigs.

It is hurting big pharma from selling their patches and other drugs that supposedly help you stop smoking.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

I am not arguing for any legislation. I think all laws should be stricken and redone to get us back to a lean, logical legal system.

well ok, i can accept that but it was your previous post i responded to so what's with the "this is ok" point of view?

aren't you of the opinion, this is no big deal, ppl can roll manually?
my point is, why should we HAVE to when the access belongs to us not big tobacco.

oh come on, unless you operate a distillery, there is no comparison.
you sell a "controlled substance" pre-packaged.
smoke shops do not.

fyi, i don't agree with the alcohol restrictions either (sad for you) however, there really is no comparison between the two businesses.

i don't complain about TSA except here, i AVOID them entirely. they get no cooperation or $$ from me.

i don't like choosing to not fly but i do have other options and smaller planes that are not subjected to TSA policy.

reply to post by Honor93


You can buy that machine that they are now telling the roll your own stores that they cannot operate without paying for the proper license.

They aren't banning anything. They are just wanting the roll your owns to obey the same rules that the rest of the industry does. And if not, then set up a system (like leasing access to a machine that is like a coin op, or something else out of the box in thinking) that they can legally operate those machines with the license they have.

Yes, the licensing scheme sucks. But since we are stuck with it, you have to learn to dance its dance.

Originally posted by Startruth144
reply to post by Honor93

 

All bs.. Do a little more research

I have been researching for a couple years now and this is all big pharma propaganda.. Basically lies.

A lot of doctors including my own even believe there is a smear campaign fronted by big pharma against e cigs.

It is hurting big pharma from selling their patches and other drugs that supposedly help you stop smoking.

uhuh ... can i laugh now and later ?
big pharma propaganda eh ??
ok, if you say so.
suppose there is no connection between the two Kessler boys at all, eh?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
if i could afford the $40g for it, i probably would.
i have better things to do with the time it takes to roll by hand.

so, which "industry" rules would apply to the common citizen?

you're missing the point here ... it is not the machine that needs licensed, it is the "selling of the service".
i can operate a machine (those in the shops) all day long on private property so long as there is nothing "commercial" about it.

it's not the machine, it is SALES and loss of tax revenue because the tobacco itself (taxed item), is cheaper.
when you buy the "service" of automated rolling, it is taxed.
so technically, tax revenue isn't suffering much but enough.

i don't dance with them cause they step on my toes far too much

ETA: look at it this way ... a rolling fee averages around $6 ... (taxable of course)
if i operate a machine in my living room and offer friends free rolling and they subsequently donate anything from $$ to cat food, it's not government controlled, regulated or taxable because it's not "commercial". nor should it be.
any liability would fall squarely on the shoulders of myself or my homeowners insurance.

reply to post by Honor93


That is exactly what I said: other than it being a tax scheme, I have no issue with it.

The tax scheme is a set system. It is a monolith that we cannot argue with so I don't even bother.

Just like a convenience store cannot let you drink the beer they sold you. The tax scheme doens't allow for it. It is a licensing issue.

Probably just means you will no longer roll them in the store. You can still buy tobacco at other stores. You can get your own machines and little plastic ones that use loose papers. Tedious job though. You'll smoke less.

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike

Originally posted by stanguilles7
Looks like these shops are misusing a loophole meant for pipe tobacco. This new law will correct that loophole. So?

The new federal law makes it harder for stores with roll-your-own cigarette machines to classify the tobacco they sell as pipe tobacco –- which is taxed at a lower rate than cigarette tobacco.

Want to smoke tobacco without paying taxes? Grow and cure your own. Problem, solution.

Want to drink tea without paying taxes? Grow and cure your own. Problem, solution. That's what they should have said at Boston Harbor. Fighting spirit!

Actually, they very well might have if tea was something one can easily cultivate in Massachusetts. But, it being native to Asia, it doesnt take well to cold northern winters, an a grove takes decades to establish.

Sorry to ruin your analogy.

Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by LittleBlackEagle

Originally posted by stanguilles7
Looks like these shops are misusing a loophole meant for pipe tobacco. This new law will correct that loophole. So?

The new federal law makes it harder for stores with roll-your-own cigarette machines to classify the tobacco they sell as pipe tobacco –- which is taxed at a lower rate than cigarette tobacco.

Want to smoke tobacco without paying taxes? Grow and cure your own. Problem, solution.

encouraging the gov to make people pay more for their personal preferences and freedoms to consume, use, like what they wish that causes no one else harm, is a slippery slope with a cliff attached.

Sure. But all this is doing is closing a loophole meant to allow people to sell pipe tobacco. I'm all for personal liberty, direct and explicit. Not people misusing loopholes.

And like I said, you are free to grow and cue your own. I've done it before. Empower yourself instead of blaming the 'government'.

you're so confused it's downright scary.
gotta love the opinions of NON-smokers, you guys are soooooo obvious.

Actually, I smoked for about five years. Not sure how that relates to the facts of this issue, though.

there has NEVER been a law that outlaws rolling your own smokes.

I didnt say their was. So it would appear you are the confused one.

this law doesn't outlaw rolling your own smokes. what it does do, is "limit" the access to mechanical forms of assistance, nothing more.

Where did I say any different?

the bill gives EXCLUSIVE privilege to the existing tobacco industry manufacturers.
this bill makes it illegal for any American to utilize readily available machines to assist their process of rolling.

Oh, the humanity!

reply to post by stanguilles7
ummm, ok, you admit you're a non-smoker.
i simply pointed out how obvious and jaded you folks can be.

are you arguing just for the sake of arguing or did you have a point?

paraphrasing here but you said something like ...
"empower yourself and quit blaming the government"
that is the statement with which i took issue.

it's none of the govt business to RESTRICT my ability to do for myself, period.
like i said, are you willing to surrender access to your automated mower ??

ps: ever toured a tobacco production plant/factory ??
the machines in the shops are nothing like the "industrial" units big tobacco employs.
when the shops have or offer production like this, extras.journalnow.com... , i'm on board with restrictions ... til then ?? BS

reply to post by Honor93


IS there any coherence or linear consistency to your thought process? I cant discern any.

Your arguments dont relate to the points made at all about the specifics of this proposed bill, and your characterization of me as -anti-smoker is nonsensical and pointless, as well as unsupported by anything ive stated.

I suggest a nap.

Originally posted by Honor93
it's none of the govt business to RESTRICT my ability to do for myself, period.

edit on 7-7-2012 by Honor93 because: add txt

They are not restricting. They are enforcing their regulations. I am sure the end goal here is to harass smokers, but that has been the norm for quite some time. I am a smoker, and I really don't feel like fighting for "smokers rights".

I think this is a matter of if you want access to the service you are used to, your smokers shop needs to invest in the proper documentation to provide it within the same law that all other businesses have to operate. It is unfortunate you will have a hard time purchasing a rolling machine of your own. I would suggest that you make do with the Top "conveyor belt" version of the rolling machine, or just roll by hand, until you can save up. Then you will not have to rely on anyone, or hold anger towards anyone.

I always say, "Don't ask for or demand your rights. Just live them." To do that in this case requires that you purchase your own reasonably priced supplies. And then, with all the protesting energy you have saved, go and protest something useful like the TSA, or marijuana laws.

reply to post by stanguilles7
your suggestion is well heeded but, you first.
as for my characterization of you, what's wrong, the fact i was right and it bothers you ?

you opened this can of worms with

all this is doing is closing a loophole meant to allow people to sell pipe tobacco.

no, it's not.

then you went to

I'm all for personal liberty, direct and explicit

clearly, you're not.

no one is misusing a loophole anywhere.

and lastly, you said exactly ...

Empower yourself instead of blaming the 'government'.

i responded.
sorry to hear you can't keep up, as this is only my 3rd post to you.

Originally posted by Honor93


no one is misusing a loophole anywhere.

Yes, they are.

smokers can get around the state cigarette tax by buying loose tobacco and 200 pre-rolled papers, and feeding them into a cigarette machine at a store where such machines are available.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
that's just it, you keep saying they are enforcing regulations.
i'd like to know which ones and directed at whom?

the shops are not manufacturers, the citizens are.
which manufacturing regulations apply to the common citizen?

your assumptions are not only wrong but are they really necessary?
can't you form a reasonable argument without attacking my person?

i have manual rollers, several of them.
have had for many years, however, i thoroughly enjoyed the convenience and time-saving bonus of having the machine do it for me.

why should i or anyone else be deprived of our time, money or convenience?
am already fighting for cannibis, hemp and recreational use, are you?

reply to post by stanguilles7
no, they don't. they just pay less of it.
(i thought most of us were for less taxes )
that is not "getting-around", working a loophole or illegal by any stretch of the imagination.

[Pondering]

.......so, you can use these things to roll tobacco with too huh? Clever!



j/k rolling ANYTHING is too much work for me.

reply to post by liejunkie01


If the price bothers people so bad, then quit.

Smokers get little sympathy here.

Try those newfangled e-cigs. Supposedly, they help people quit.

reply to post by Daedal

but it certainly tastes like less additives are in it

I roll my own smokes as well(as i can see quite a few members do), and I can taste the difference with the tabbaco as well. Up here in Canada they recently changed the packaging so that the general sergeons warning covers 75 % of the packaging, BUT they removed the "toxic emisions" chart that shows you how much chemicals they put in the smokes. Since then I've been mindful to smoke as few of the pre-rolled smokes as possible.
There is a definate change in the taste from the old packages and the conspiracy theororist inside me says that I think they don't want people knowing about a new chemical they put in the smokes. Of course I have no way of verifying this...

I really just wish that the world could be even a little more truthful place.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

that's just it, you keep saying they are enforcing regulations.
i'd like to know which ones and directed at whom?

THe ones that control how tobacco is sold. Those little tax stamps on the cigarette packs are there for a reason. RJ Reynolds likely doesn't enjoy having to pay much higher licensing fees to sell their cigarettes, and likely would find the practice of allowing the roll your owns to manufacture cigarettes on premises by using a loophole. Just like your average bar would likely not be happy to find the convenience store next door was allowing people to drink beer on their premises without paying for the correct license.

The rules are there for a reason (as stupid as that reason may be). This isn't about your convenience, this is about businesses having regulations applied fairly and equally under the law.

the shops are not manufacturers, the citizens are.
which manufacturing regulations apply to the common citizen?

If you want to be considered your own private manufacturer, then buy your own supplies to manufacture with. You can't start getting mad and complaining about your rights being violated when all that is happening is a business is being told that they cannot let you use their manufacturing products, because it is an unfair practice for other manufacturers in the industry who pay the higher fees to manufacture, not just distribute.

your assumptions are not only wrong but are they really necessary?
can't you form a reasonable argument without attacking my person?

Who is attacking your person? i am not making any assumptions? Not sure what you are talking about here?

i have manual rollers, several of them.
have had for many years, however, i thoroughly enjoyed the convenience and time-saving bonus of having the machine do it for me.

Was it not you who mentioned that you could not afford the $40 to buy your own rolling machine? I have seen them for under 10 before....but don't pay much attention to them. Regardless, if you have your own machines what are you complaining about? That you lost a convenience? Then complain to your store for being too cheap to pay for the proper license. They shouldn't have allowed you to do it in the first place. Now that they have set an improper expectation by not being professional enough to understand the laws of the industry they are working in, you want to blame the government? Those tax and licensing laws have been in place a long, long time.

why should i or anyone else be deprived of our time, money or convenience?
am already fighting for cannibis, hemp and recreational use, are you?

So your only complaint is that you feel deprived of your time, money, and convenience? Instead of getting mad about a law that your vendor SHOULD have been aware of and compliant with why don't you exercise personal responsibility? Purchase your own machine so that you can still thoroughly enjoy the benefits of said machine. Because anyone who sells tobacco that they then use their machinery to roll into actual cigarettes is not a vendor, they are a manufacturer. Those words have meaning. Do I like the way the tax laws are set up? Nope...but as a businessman I expect that EVERYONE has to follow the same ones I do.

BTW, i don't fight for causes. I fight for people. I prefer to think globally and act locally.