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Supreme Court strikes down key parts of Arizona immigration law

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posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by ButterCookie
 



Exactly!!

I have been explaining this to my liberal co-workers all day!


Well..you are wrong.

If you think otherwise...go find me the law that says I have to provide identification to any cop that asks me.



“Stop and identify” statutes are laws in the United States that allow police[1] to detain persons and request such persons to identify themselves, and arrest them if they do not. The authority to detain on reasonable suspicion was established in Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), and does not depend on the existence of a law that specifically authorizes such a detention, so that authority exists in all jurisdictions in the United States. The name disclosure was considered by the U.S. Supreme Court in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), which held that the name disclosure did not violate the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures.

However, As of February 2011, there is no U.S. federal law requiring that an individual identify himself during a Terry stop, but Hiibel held that states may enact such laws, provided the law requires the officer to have reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal involvement.

In five states (Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island), failure to identify oneself is one factor to be considered in a decision to arrest.
edit on 26-6-2012 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 



Do I have a hatred towards illegals, your damn right. They are one of the most significant factors in the degradation and downfall of the United States, and I have witnessed first hand the negative impact on my areas local culture.


What is/was your local culture???

Was this local culture always the same??? How long has it existed for??? What made it so unique and special???

I've asked so many people what culture immigrants are "destroying"...no one seems to be able to answer. But since you have seen it first hand...I'm sure you can tell me.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 


Did you read your own source???

Did you notice it never says you have to provide a piece of identification...all you have to do is tell them your name...and in some cases your address.

I don't have to show an ID to anyone for "stop and identify"



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 
keep wondering ... maybe one day you'll come to your senses and realize just how well they can work.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


I have already stated this in an older thread of mine you would love: I Have Become a Racist so let me cite it.


I knew people who could not get work in some labor or custodial positions because some illegal would do it for less, without having to deal with I work in the medical field, and I would see more and more illegals going into ER’s and getting free medical care. I saw the grocery stores slowly increase their Mexican foods items from a small section to whole isles. I watched as Wal-Mart went from having 12 racks of Country, Rock or R&B, to 3 Rock, 3 R&B, 2 Country, and 4 or Regional Mexicano. I would encounter illegals who could not speak functional English.
...
The area I am from is predominately of French heritage. As such, French was the only secondary language taught in schools, as it should be to preserve local heritage. Schools eventually started offering Spanish. Now, they have done away with French altogether.


Additionally, in my lifetime, where it was easy to find a local restaurant that served local cultural cuisine every few blocks, only a handful exist now and in there place and many more, family run and national chain mexican/latino fare restaurants have taken over.

But the biggest cultural hit was to the French language.
edit on 26-6-2012 by Wolf321 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Wolf321
 



Do I have a hatred towards illegals, your damn right. They are one of the most significant factors in the degradation and downfall of the United States, and I have witnessed first hand the negative impact on my areas local culture.


What is/was your local culture???

Was this local culture always the same??? How long has it existed for??? What made it so unique and special???

I've asked so many people what culture immigrants are "destroying"...no one seems to be able to answer. But since you have seen it first hand...I'm sure you can tell me.


You have presented a fair question.

One aspect of the culture that is being destroyed is our language. No, I'm not saying that we can all of a sudden cannot speak English, but we are basically being forced to learn Spanish, especially in employment. Spanish is being taught in kindergarden, and I doubt that is simply, 'a leisure'...

Each time we call in for customer service, English Americans must select the option for English....that shows how much influence is being made. If I decided to relocate to France, I would not dare expect everyone in the country to learn English- common sense would tell me that I would need to learn French.

Everywhere we go, instructions are written in dual languages, sometime so much that the natural citizen feels out of place.

I understand that America is a 'melting pot' or 'salad', depending on how you perceive it, and I definitely understand that a variety of culture is the spice of this country. But country's have 'national language spoken' for a reason- to keep down on confusion and to prevent forcing people to learn all the native languages of each immigrant.
edit on 26-6-2012 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by ButterCookie
 


Did you read your own source???

Did you notice it never says you have to provide a piece of identification...all you have to do is tell them your name...and in some cases your address.

I don't have to show an ID to anyone for "stop and identify"


Some “stop and identify” laws do not require that a detainee identify himself, but allow refusal to do so to be considered along with other factors in determining whether there is probable cause to arrest. In some states, providing a false name is an offense.[



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by dogstar23
 

well-known fact, if they're working illegally under a false or stolen SS#, they pay in but get nothing out
well-know fact eh ??
perhaps then you can explain how an illegal immigrant neighbor of ours scored $1500+ back in an IRS refund check this year ??
(knowledge gained by returning the check after it was delivered to the wrong mailbox)



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:53 AM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 


And that rich French culture in your area had a history of what...300 years???

And yes..I do remember that thread and participated in it...where you very clearly admit that you are now a racist and judge people based on the color of their skin.

So sorry if I really don't take your opinion seriously on the topic of immigration...people like you should be the last people we take advice from.

But it is quite telling that an admitted racist like you have the exact same position on immigration as those who claim their militan views on immigration have nothing to do with race



But hey...look at it this way...your beloved local "french culture" destroyed another long standing culture to become the local culture...just think of this as karma or the natural process of a culture with a closer connection to the native culture re-claiming what was originally theirs.

If you love french culture so much...move to France...I mean...is that what you tell people who want to speak a different language???



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 



One aspect of the culture that is being destroyed is our language. No, I'm not saying that we can all of a sudden cannot speak English, but we are basically being forced to learn Spanish


Why is that a problem???

Why shouldn't we know two European based languages...both nations had a large influence on our past and on this continent.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 



Some “stop and identify” laws do not require that a detainee identify himself, but allow refusal to do so to be considered along with other factors in determining whether there is probable cause to arrest. In some states, providing a false name is an offense.


You clearly do not understand what I'm asking.

"Stop and identify" requires you to only give the officer your name and in some cases your address. No stop and identify law requires you to provide a document.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 



knowledge gained by returning the check after it was delivered to the wrong mailbox


You opened someone elses mail?

That is a Federal offense....CRIMINAL!!!!



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by dogstar23
 

well-known fact, if they're working illegally under a false or stolen SS#, they pay in but get nothing out
well-know fact eh ??
perhaps then you can explain how an illegal immigrant neighbor of ours scored $1500+ back in an IRS refund check this year ??
(knowledge gained by returning the check after it was delivered to the wrong mailbox)



You must have Earned income to get a tax return check, so much for them leaching off the system.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
And yes..I do remember that thread and participated in it...where you very clearly admit that you are now a racist and judge people based on the color of their skin.


I never said I judge them based upon the color of their skin. I said I have a conditioned anger when seeing them. It doesn't mean I judge or treat in individual who looks or is hispanic any differently than a person of any other race.


But it is quite telling that an admitted racist like you have the exact same position on immigration as those who claim their militan views on immigration have nothing to do with race


The only thing that should tell you is that a person can be conditioned by their environment and circumstances and a person can want to uphold the law regardless of personal disagreement with it.


If you love french culture so much...move to France...I mean...is that what you tell people who want to speak a different language???


I don't want to speak french daily. But in public schools, where a second language is a requirement of the state curriculum, I expect that second language to honor its local cultural heritage and not change to cater to an increasing hispanic spanish only speaking population.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by ButterCookie
 

well ok, i concede i'm in a state that operates differently than most.
thanks for the info, i didn't realize it was not "considered" as an arresting factor in so many other states, especially AZ.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by ButterCookie
 



Some “stop and identify” laws do not require that a detainee identify himself, but allow refusal to do so to be considered along with other factors in determining whether there is probable cause to arrest. In some states, providing a false name is an offense.


You clearly do not understand what I'm asking.

"Stop and identify" requires you to only give the officer your name and in some cases your address. No stop and identify law requires you to provide a document.


No..I do understand your question.

What I was showing you was that 'stop and identify' does not require a person to provide ID, except in some states, in which the refusal to do so leads to suspicion of criminal activity and can result in arrest.

Basically, this a 'state-law' issue. Just the same as individual states having the right to have different speed limits, different welfare laws, different abortion requirements, etc....

and SCOTUS struck down Arizona's ability to apply their own state-law.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 

I don't have to show an ID to anyone for "stop and identify"
that might work in your location but don't try it in FL ... i've been pulled over on my bicycle for nothing more than "identify" and had to show proof (ID) in order to proceed without further delay.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire
You must have Earned income to get a tax return check, so much for them leaching off the system.


Not true. You get child tax credits. I know people with less than $10,000 income who get multiple thousand because of more than one kid.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by LDragonFire

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by dogstar23
 

well-known fact, if they're working illegally under a false or stolen SS#, they pay in but get nothing out
well-know fact eh ??
perhaps then you can explain how an illegal immigrant neighbor of ours scored $1500+ back in an IRS refund check this year ??
(knowledge gained by returning the check after it was delivered to the wrong mailbox)



You must have Earned income to get a tax return check, so much for them leaching off the system.


Exactly!!

When they receive the earned income/tax refund, it is unfair because as illegals, they clearly are not paying taxes.

And that says what?

That says that this is additional criminal activity.



posted on Jun, 26 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 



I don't want to speak french daily. But in public schools, where a second language is a requirement of the state curriculum, I expect that second language to honor its local cultural heritage and not change to cater to an increasing hispanic spanish only speaking population.


A second language taught in a public school should be for the purpose to give the student a marketable skill...not to honor local heritage.

How useful is knowing French in today's job market???



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