David Cameron declares war on welfare culture.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc
You also have the raising of the retirement age to factor in. Those in work now do not leave it until you prise their sickly dying grasp on it which knocks on to the few jobs available not becoming vacant.

This will be more noticeable in the professions as manual workers have a more physically limited working life. So it is not only the so called uneducated that are now unemployed. Ask a graduate what his prospects are.

Originally posted by Echtelion
reply to post by Wide-Eyes

 

OP you are a troll.

The welfare that costs society the most in England is CORPORATE WELFARE, that is the State doing every bidding of the mega banks and the huge transnational corporations, like BP, and the nuclear industry. This is why Cameron and his cronies LIED to the public on the Fukushima nuke crisis, as it was reported by the Guardian. The UK government are a bunch of CRIMINALS, nothing less...

Compared to the billions given (through bailouts and tax waivers) to banks and big business, the slice of the national budget going to welfare programs is a joke!

Wide-Eyes: Eyes Wide Shut!

edit on 25/6/12 by Echtelion because: (no reason given)

I am actually extremely offended by your words. Have you read through this thread or did you just read the first few words and then spout a hateful accusation. Yes, I played devils advocate a little on behalf of the lucky people who have jobs on this country...

THE TRUTH: I F**KING HATE THIS GOVERNMENT AND DIDN'T VOTE FOR THEM!!! IF I HAD IT MY WAY I WOULD OUST AND HANG THE WHOLE LOT OF THE ILLUMINATI COCKSUCKERS...

I tried to keep this civil but you trolled me, despite your accusations of ME being the troll. Shocking really, next time, read the thread.

Originally posted by leelo
If they are working as many jobs as they can and still need welfare money is it their fault; are they still milking the system or has the system and society set them up for failure?

They should not live beyond their means. It's not a free for all and people need to understand the incentive to get off welfare is that you will be able to make your own money decisions as far as how you live. I lived within my means when I was on welfare, that meant I didn't buy things like extravagant birthday presents for my kids, we didn't go to the movies, etc. I shopped at the discount stores, they wore second hand clothes. They learned that if you want things in life you have to work a job and save money. If someone works several jobs and thinks they still only have the bare necessities they have no right to force others to give more of what they have. Tearing down the city is not the answer, that just makes more suffering and blight. the poor people are the ones who get hurt by that kind of reaction. You are not going to hurt the rich people, they just find more ways to hide their money. the key I think is for more individual responsibility and for people to stop looking to the govt to solve their problems. You actually make yourself more of a slave to the government when you look to them for answers. Take away their power that way.

Originally posted by colin42
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

You also have the raising of the retirement age to factor in. Those in work now do not leave it until you prise their sickly dying grasp on it which knocks on to the few jobs available not becoming vacant.

This will be more noticeable in the professions as manual workers have a more physically limited working life. So it is not only the so called uneducated that are now unemployed. Ask a graduate what his prospects are.

Retirement? Didnt they change the policy so that you work till you die?

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

Retirement? Didnt they change the policy so that you work till you die?

You can if your able.

reply to post by tigercat1971


Wow, I could go on for ages about the truths you have posted. I shall refrain though because I would probably get in trouble with the mods. Good post, thank you,

I wish that some one would supply an actual analysis of how many people are "milking" the system

reply to post by leelo


Actually these figures have been manipulated and kept secret by successive governments for years, they dare not give us the whole picture or we may start to ask questions.

Anyhow what exactly is milking the system? If a Polish migrant comes here and does somenoes job for less money or more hours or worse conditions and then has to claim housing benefit and council tax benefit and then child benefit a school uniform grant, a grant for beds wahing machimes fridges as he gets to be top of the housing list now he's got a national insurance number. Oops nearly forgot Healthcare, prescriptions, dentist, opticians and if the bastards that empoyed him decide to lay him off after a 6 months unemployment benefit.

Hm Miling the system who qualifies ?

I lived in Michigan during an era when people were moving there just because of the many loop holes in the welfare system. Then we got a governor, Engel, who said enough. He made people go back to work within so many months or the payments stopped.

We didn't have housing suppliments, but due to welfare checks some of the houses they were living in were pretty nice. Not that I minded that they lived in a nice house. Its just that they weren't working. Sometimes you need a strong leader to cut it off. Eventually, people went back to work some even praising Engel for getting them off their back side.

I don't live in the UK so I don't know the zeitgeist of the area, but that's what happened to my birth state.

Thank you dear leader for giving me and my daughter the opportunity to move back in with my parents, or better still on to the golden streets of parliament.

I work very hard for my £50 a day, and I am very happy to give 20% of it to our dear leader. I'm just happy our dear leader has good life.

Heil Cameron!

(whispers from above; "Into the fray young Englishman, into the fray....")

reply to post by Britrebel


I am honoured that your first and only post is on this thread. And it's a good post too! Welcome to ATS, I look forward to hearing more from you.

Its about time something was done about it. Im sick to the back teeth of getting hammered every month by the taxman just so these job dodgers can live on my money. Half of these people haven't done an honest days work in there life so i'm all for it.

These people complain they wont get enough money if they work and would rather be on benefit's, guess what? get two jobs, work overtime it's not my fault or problem your not educated enough to get a higher wage than what's being offered to you.I need to work 250 hours plus every month to make end's meet due to the high amount of tax I pay to keep food on a scrounger's table, witch mean's I get less time at home with my kids. I know the tax won't get lowered but i'd rather the money got used in a better way.

As for the other half that are serious about getting a job or have bad circumstance's that are legit I don't have a problem with and good luck I don't mind my money helping them cause there usually honest hard working people and deserve the help.

I have a solution for the problem of 'government'. Unfortunately it doesn't involve bombs (I know, I'm sorry). It invovles computers. But hey that's for my first thread

reply to post by ChristianJihad


I maintain it is a mistake to look to the govt for answers, they don't really care about you

Despite Cameron wallowing in wallyism, I very much doubt that he used the word 'Feckless' in an all encompassing manner in regard to his idea of stopping housing benefit for under 25's, or if he used that word at all, that surely would be barking up the wrong tree since, it would be under 25's et al who would be involved but that they are not all feckless. It is daily mail speak, and it is dirty stuff, doesn't mention class and all that, just leaves the reader to presumption. In fact, the old conservative, or maybe whiggy idea, that all crime comes from the lowest orders, itself a total deceit. Some things never change. It could even be, as one poster has pointed out in his/her own way, a veiled attack on foreign workers, and that, I could attribute to from the likes of Cameron and the daily mail. Besides all that, he hasn't a hope in hell of bringing it all about in his current position, which is quite frankly powerless.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


I agree that there are a HUGE number of people milking the system and going on jobseekers allowance without having any intention of getting a job at all. However I bet a lot of these people just don't want to work and this wont get them in work, I've met a lot of people in this position, some are genuinely unable to get a job, but many are just content with not working for a living.

It's sad but true. The jobcentre in my town has loads of alcoholics sitting outside getting their jobseekers allowance and then going outside and getting wrecked on cheap strong larger or special brew. These people obviously are in no state to work, but claim anyway. Now take their £140 bi-weekly payment away and how are they going to afford their food and drinks? My monies on crime and I'm sure a small % of them will actually resort to the unthinkable and get a job, but I'm willing to bet many won't and will resort to more unsavoury means of supporting themselves.

It might be annoying giving these people money for nothing every 2 weeks, but taking it away will probably cause a torrent of other problems. I'm not saying by any means keep the system that we have in place atm, hell no! But we need it adjusted to work better, A lot of these people are experts at swindling the system, when I lost my job and tried to claim benefits it took forever and many of these who I spoke to knew exactly what to do to get around it. I felt like because I had a history of working that I was treated like I could look after myself and wait while the wreck heads got their benefits and all the trimmings in double quick time. We need to work on changing our culture which is an enormous task indeed. Maybe make these unemployed people work for their benefits (not for a business which is going to profit from this free labour mind you) see it's very tricky.

I know what people will say to this and I'm sorry I don't have the answers I'm afraid, this is a tough subject and embarrassing for our nation. I believe though that this idea is going to cause plenty of more issues than it will fix.

reply to post by Freeborn


Cheers dude... I have chilled a bit since yesterday, tough day at work. Don't worry, I am not going anywhere. I may emigrate once the kids grow up, but that's 10 years until the eldest leaves home, so no time soon

I just get so annoyed..

reply to post by bearwithredhat


It's a bit of an ask to say to someone with £8 disposable (pay after rent, bills and taxes taken into account) they should save.

Let's put that into perspective. Over the course of a year, that is a mere £416. If they wanted to save for a deposit on a house and get a mortgage, they would need 10% of the average £170k, so £17k. This would take them 2125 weeks, or over 40 years. And this is assuming they don't ever get any exceptional payments over that time which would hit their savings.

Jeebus man, what is your problem? I find it hard and I'm on a fair bit more than the minimum wage. Besides, as has been pointed out, anyone who is earning pays National Insurance precisely so if they are made unemployed, they have a safety net.

Originally posted by bearwithredhat

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by bearwithredhat

 

Would you rather people begging on the streets.

That;'s always rthe answer isn't it? Scrounging. About time people considered working for a living...a concept entirely alien to sociialists.

There are few jobs. I wouldn't say there are none, but you always get 40-50 people going for the average office job which pays ok. In the field I work in, despite it being well paid, there are no jobs. In fact, the only place that is recruiting people of my ilk is my own employer.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by stumason

 

Yet you state in your avatar that you are a 'hater of labour'! Your post completely contradicts your pre-designated stance. So, what is it?

How does my post contradict anything, especially seeing as the post your replying too is actually about the functions of Parliament?

I do despise Labour (the party), not labour (work). Me thinks you mis-read it.


reply to post by SearchLightsInc


To be fair, Mr Tebbit had a point. I know quite a few unemployed peeps who say "there are no jobs", yet are only looking for jobs within 15 minutes of their house. My own fiancée is the same, she is always avoiding going for jobs she might have to travel for.

From the age of 16, I was willing to travel anywhere to do anything. I'd be up at 4 in the morning at 17 to go to London, only to be told to go to Cornwall, not getting home until 8 in the evening the next day.

Sometimes you do have to "get on your bike", so to speak.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
This thread is about Britain, in case anyone has been asleep for the last 3 years. An average University level education costs £9000 a year in tuition fees. This is before accomodation, food and general living costs. Can we get this free too?

University is "free" at the point of use. You only pay back the loan over a period of many years after hitting a certain earnings threshold and even then, it is a pittance. For example, i once worked out that a former student on £21k would pay something like £30 a month back for their Uni tuition, which is peanuts.

(ETA: And how many students do we see getting razzled on Friday and Saturday night in town, yet they are always saying they are skint..Maybe if they didn't piss their money up the wall....)

It really gets my goat up when people bleet on about Uni fee's. It's not as if you have to pay anything upfront and you only pay it back when your earning a decent salary. It's certainly better than pretty much anywhere else on the planet, bar maybe a few European countries which, to be frank, are in a worse financial state than the UK so how long can they keep that up?

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


I have to ask, did you vote at all? So often I hear this "I never voted for them, blah blah blah" only to actually find out the person whining never bothered to get off their arse to vote at all. At any rate, it matters not if you didn't vote for them, this is a Parliamentary democracy, not a Wide-eyesocracy...

.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Suspiria

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
leaving you not a lot to pay the bills and have some sort of spare cash to actually do things with your family.

no more cable tv, cigarettes and fancy sneakers and there's the incentive to get off assistance. you shouldn't have more than basics when on assistance. you should go to the govt doctor to get a nutrition card and only be allowed to buy the foods that are going to keep you healthy. Go to the govt clothing store for govt clothes, etc. because if we pretend as though you have a normal life receiving govt assistance there is no incentive to ever get off it.

So while we are at it, may as well take ourselves and our kids to the poor house.
Christ, would you like us all to be made to wear a symbol showing our caste in society too?

If you believe that's where you belong then I guess you'll have to grin and bear it. I was on welfare as a single dad with two small children and after experiencing welfare firsthand, got sick of not having a dime and got off my ass and found work. I even did an interview for washing windows with my two year old daughter sleeping in my arms. I took a job washing and detailing cars and then luckily got the job I've had now for sixteen years.

I blame the govt for allowing people to sit on their asses and crap out kids left and right knowing the govt will support them no matter what. If that's all you expect from people that's all they will do. I think it's wrong to make things cozy for them otherwise why would they want to get off assistance? Sure there are those who are totally incapable of wiping their own arse, but why should we encourage that? I don't mind my taxes helping people but not supporting a lifestyle of sloth.

If you'd just like to take that inflated ego for a moment from betwix your arse cheeks you might have a notion of what people here are trying to say, instead of breathing in the vast quantities of smug that seems to be seeping from your back end. Obviously from your colloquialisms such as "dime" and "detailing" you aren't from around these here parts pertaining to this thread. Our welfare isn't the same as yours. People here do not generally languish whilst bursting their pants filling up five supermarket trolleys a week with crap. Our food isn't cheap, our utilities aren't cheap and what housing we have is vastly smaller than in the likes of the US. Our welfare is not cosy, it's soul destroying.

We have # all industry, # all jobs for anyone to go to do you understand? Many people dismissed as worksy sloths have PAID INTO THE SYSTEM ALREADY. We have the Felicity's and Tarquin's of the country spending Child benefit they don't actually need on wine every week. We shell out winter fuel payments to people who don't even live in our country anymore who spend it on topping up their creosote wrinkly skin, granny perms and sarongs. Britain pays child benefit for more than 50,000 children living abroad, 37,900 children who live in Poland alone! To top it all off we've got people hiding great swathes of tax and god knows how much frittered away to the EU and further afield, who btw are probably laughing their arses off at us since all the benefits sent out of Britain are spent over there anyway.

By all means we should do something about a benefits culture, but to go straight at the jugular of those who can least survive this makes no sense whatsoever. As for those who bemoan all people on council or social housing as worshy, well Christ knows where you are, I don't know of any house on what's left of my estate who doesn't have at least one adult working these days. As for what's left of my estate, there's another grand Government scheme gone tits up. 170 perfectly good solid houses knocked down with promises to replace them with more affordable housing. No such luck. The area is still desolate 5 years on, the Renew scheme gone tits up, surprise surprise though, Barratt homes have stepped in to say they will build 117 private houses on the land and sell only 5 to the housing association to go with the other toytown houses they knocked up over the road which they lied about being social housing at the start. This is happening all over the country. So they want the under 25's to go back to mum and dad, fair play eh? No not really, not when great swathes of the population have already been forced to move and downsize already by such schemes as above.

I'm truly happy you managed to get a job with a two year old in your arms but generally that's not the way we do things here. Even sweeping streets you are required to turn up for an interview well dressed sans toddler, besides which we have enough childless Uni graduates filling such positions already. So to clarify, our ways are not your ways...Get it? Got it?.Good

Cameron/*anker

Line 2

I'd also like to thank Mr Cameron and the Daily Mail for my fantastic mood today on being greeted with this little chestnut.

Lower benefits if you live up North: Ministers consider plan to pay less if your home is in a cheaper part of the country

People in parts of the country where the cost of living is cheaper could receive less in Jobseekers’ Allowance, housing benefit and disability benefits than those in more expensive areas.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Well it's a not # sherlock from me on the Housing benefit front. Isn't it already capped to under £500 a month up here?
As for the rest I despair. Exactly what IS cheaper up North than in London or the likes of Bath?
Are pot noodles cheaper up here or something?.

reply to post by Suspiria

sorry to hear that. guess your f'd then hunh? too bad you guys don't have guns like we do