Obama asserts executive privilege on Fast and Furious documents

Back in the day, when I was called a stinking liberal for demanding accountability from the Bush administration, I heard the same tired political song about how "It was OK when the other team did it!" I became sick of the show.

I will tell you now... every single voice uttering reminiscences of travesties past, you are failing to join a discussion which could be about a greater issue of more import than political gamesmanship and the group-think paradigm.

I grant that this power of the executive branch is completely problematic when you take into consideration that it is used by political players for political reasons... instead of as an emergency measure to protect the nation. Frankly, I think that has to stop.

Such tools as "supreme executive power" are meant to convey the motive of their use. "Extreme" measures need only be taken in "extreme" circumstances.

Let the partisans bray and bluster! Damn them and their irrational devotion to the symptom of the disease, rather than it's cause and potential cure!

what are the odds these 'damaging documents' get shredded, or lost, or are released with every word blacked out except the date, or the building that they are being stored in catches fire and implodes into its own footprint after a couple of hours? well, that's highly unlikely I suppose since no building has ever collapsed into its own footprint due to fire, except that one we don't speak of!

Originally posted by F4guy

Originally posted by Nspekta
***This is Important!**


Another classic example of Obama using his 'power' in sketchy, non-constitutional ways!


www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 6/20/2012 by Nspekta because: spelling

edit on 6/20/2012 by Nspekta because: edit

edit on 6/20/2012 by Nspekta because: (no reason given)

And by unconstitutional, you of course mean using it in exactly the same way expressly approved by the Supreme Court in Nixon v. United States, reported at 418 U.S. at 713-14, right? I'm glad you, as a constitutional scholar who has thoroughly, I'm sure, analyzed the Nixon case, has now given us the benefit of such a nuanced analysis of the powers of the Executive under Article II of the Constitution

To override Executive Privilege requires; "a sufficient showing that the Presidential material is essential to the justice of the case" ~ SCOTUS United States v. Nixon.

Originally posted by DarkKnight76
If you and all the other conservatives who are sure to come to this post did just as much whining when Bush exerted EP, I would say you have a point. But something tells me not one of you even made a peep except to defend him because "we are at war with terrorists and you don't speak bad about a president during war time."

Now I heavily criticized Bush during his time in office for doing things like this and I was called a traitor. And what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

My sentiments exactly. Funny how they conveniently "Forget" about all the ep GHW used for his and Cheneys' "Enterprises".

That said, I am not happy about this. There are several things I am unhappy about, but I wonder how much of it is Obama and how much is his bosses. Either way things are going badly for America because we have been taken over and refuse to wake up to facts. Labeling people is the favored way of disproving or otherwise defaming groups or individuals. The same people who agreed about Iraq being ruled by an evil tyrant and wanting so badly to just go over and kick his country's ass while temporarily confiscating millions of oil fields.

Our troops were surprised to find Iraqi troops handing their rifles over to troops in exchange for food. They were not organized or refueled. They were spread thin with almost no supply line. We went in like we were fighting the Russians to show the world how powerful we were. George senior was showing the world how big his penis replacement was. Mrs. Bush could not be prouder.

Clinton comes along and fixes things and tells the rest of the world that we have little dicks and would never show it in public. Basically the last guy was an uptight a-hole with a vendetta against an old plant he placed there years earlier as part of his own Middle Eastern plan for domination. He meant to get all the oil and the property. Obvious power grab. So next is little Georgie and the first thing he does is assert his penis envy. He didn't have a crazy dominant tyrant to fight though so he had to make up a new strategy. His buddy Cheney knew exactly how to get the wheels greased and got busy. Next thing you know we lose 4 buildings in 1 day and all gets blamed on an old plant from good ole CIA USA. Never mind that guy was not linked in any way to Iraq, lets just go in and kick somebody's ass. We are mad and we want blood!

Now we have a concerned group of well informed ex-military who understand the plots and the military machine mechanisms with the ability to nullify the disinformation with fact. They no longer need news to tell them what is going on. They have a network of concerned citizens who they trust that they get facts from. There is no honor in the main stream media so there is no need for useless blather. If anything it is the opposite of fact since it is made to be sensationalist and get better ratings.

Now they are worried that things might fall apart so they try and derail us with Casey Anthony and now Trayvon and Zimmerman. The media is only dangerous if you pay attention to it. I would trust John Stewart or Colbert WAY before FOX! So if "Comedic news" is more reliable than "Entertainment news" I prefer it even though I know it is skewed toward the personal preferences of the person. That is much easier to figure out than the think-tank at the CIA. Now their stories are passed right on over to the news network for broadcast with no editing. The appropriation bill cleared the way for direct manipulation instead of the behind the scenes stuff from before.

Originally posted by Violater1
Excellent post!

How can Berry declare executive privilege's on documents that he states that he never saw?

Up to this point the White House stated they had ZERO part in all of it. It was the Justice Department against the House Oversight comitee, but now I guess it seems the White House was deep in it too...

Originally posted by onecraftydude

My sentiments exactly. Funny how they conveniently "Forget" about all the ep GHW used for his and Cheneys' "Enterprises".

So are you saying you are backing the What House and Holder on this, and that Fast and Furious should not be looked into any deeper?

Originally posted by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

You guys did catch that this is normal procedure, right?

Q: What is a contempt citation?
The process involves a series of legal maneuvers including the president's ability to assert executive privilege, as he did in this case. Executive privilege is rarely accepted by Congress, but the Justice Department maintains that infringing on executive privilege erodes the balance of powers.

Bush did the same thing:

Q: When is the last time an executive branch official faced a contempt citation?
Most recently, George W. Bush White House Counsel Harriet Miers and Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten were held in contempt of Congress despite Bush asserting executive privilege in their case. During the vote in early 2008, a large number of Republicans walked out in protest of what they saw as a partisan vote.

This is not a court of law, its not a criminal charge, and the same rules don't apply to it that apply to
a criminal court. It may become a criminal trial, but that is very unlikely to happen.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

It isn't exactly 'normal' for an Attorney General of the U.S. to undergo this procedure. Janet Reno went this far during President Clinton's impeachment proceedings, but her contempt was not considered by either house of Congress.

If Congress finds someone in contempt, it most certainly seems to be a criminal matter, since there are guidelines for sentencing, including minimum and maximum imprisonment and fines.

The criminal offense of "contempt of Congress" sets the penalty at not less than one month nor more than twelve months in jail and a fine of not less than $100 nor more than $1,000.[9]

Wikipedia:Contempt of Congress

Obama asserts executive privilege, fast and furious.....



....Michelle is unimpressed

Wasn't good enough to win the contest. Note to self: Should have worn bikini.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by onecraftydude

My sentiments exactly. Funny how they conveniently "Forget" about all the ep GHW used for his and Cheneys' "Enterprises".

So are you saying you are backing the What House and Holder on this, and that Fast and Furious should not be looked into any deeper?

It should make no difference what side you are on, "Left, Right or Middle of the road". Fact is: Brian Terry, along with many Mexican citizens were killed with guns that were provided to them by who and why!? What was the point!

Give them guns, for what? What did they plan to do after they tracked the guns that were not tracked? Tracking guns into Mexico is like tracking fish in the ocean.

Brian Terry's family needs answers.

I love how any time Obama is criticized, the Bush Administration is brought up to make Obama seem 'not so bad'.



LOL.


People are still buying into this Obama bullcrap? For shame...

Originally posted by six67seven
what are the odds these 'damaging documents' get shredded, or lost, or are released with every word blacked out except the date, or the building that they are being stored in catches fire and implodes into its own footprint after a couple of hours? well, that's highly unlikely I suppose since no building has ever collapsed into its own footprint due to fire, except that one we don't speak of!

Yep I bet if we do see these "documents" they will be so redacted it won't even be funny - just sad. Probably like the Fed memo that was recently released in which the entire freaking document was redacted.

I find it interesting that the Liberals are playing the GW Bush "did it too" card. If that be the case, and they are going to blame GW Bush, then why "NOT" release the documents that apparently show GW Bush's participation in the scheme?

Isn't it the protocol of this administration to blame Bush for everything? It has been since day one.

So lets see the documents, if they in fact implicate GW Bush in the FF deal.

I wonder why they won't do that?

Hmmm?????

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Violater1
Excellent post!

How can Berry declare executive privilege's on documents that he states that he never saw?

Up to this point the White House stated they had ZERO part in all of it. It was the Justice Department against the House Oversight comitee, but now I guess it seems the White House was deep in it too...

Yep that's the really interesting part of this whole matter. Both the DOJ and the Administration both denied involvement last year. The DOJ later retracted that and admitted they screwed up. Now the Administration does a last minute EP on these last remaining documents?

You'd have to be blind not to see a cover up here (in general). If there was something about Operation Gun Runner / Fast & Furious that was national security worthy, Obama would have used his EP powers at the beginning of the investigation by the House Oversight Committee not at the last minute.

It seems alot of people here are overlooking how important the time line is. Rep. Issa needs to keep pushing this and get answers. Depending on the severity of the information contained in these documents, this might be on the same level as Iran-Contra or the Watergate scandal. Maybe.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Look at the choices you have.

Better the devil you know, or the devil you don't? That's it, no other options, red or blue, black or white, corrupt or... well, corrupt, puppet or... well, puppet.

The American people are still not asking for a new way, still playing the two-headed monster game and still falling for the same BS over and over and over.

Nothing in America will change unless the people refuse what is handed to them and they demand a new system. Until then you have a figurehead being controlled by the military industrial complex and their profiteering bankster buddies.

A president who puts himself above the law is a pretty big deal, America...

But it's irrelevant because none of you will do anything about it, other than whine ofcourse...

Why do people have to vote who is on the list? They should group up and find a people's candidate and vote them in instead.

He needs to be impeached and charged criminally.

Originally posted by phantomjack
I find it interesting that the Liberals are playing the GW Bush "did it too" card. If that be the case, and they are going to blame GW Bush, then why "NOT" release the documents that apparently show GW Bush's participation in the scheme?

Isn't it the protocol of this administration to blame Bush for everything? It has been since day one.

So lets see the documents, if they in fact implicate GW Bush in the FF deal.

I wonder why they won't do that?

Hmmm?????

I agree. I find it interesting also that it's the Democrats that are accusing the Republicans of politicizing this issue whereas the Republicans just want to get to the bottom of it. Nobody forced Obama to use his EP powers - so really it was the Administration and the Democrats who are politicizing it.

And of course the Democrats would accuse the Repubs of partisan shenanigans when it's their boy on the throne. Both sides have done this partisan "gamesmanship" before, so it's nothing new. In fact, I tend to believe it's their (meaning, whichever party holds the majority in the House or Senate) JOB to hold the other side accountable. If they don't, then ...why are we paying them?

Just my thoughts

Watergate anybody? This is the exact same move that Nixon pulled to try and cover the up - that says quite a bit.

These documents NEED to get out before the election cycle, or else it's going to get buried in a heartbeat.