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Originally posted by Azadok2day
Originally posted by jiggerj
Originally posted by Julio
This goes both ways;
In an evolution vs creation debate, have you managed to open the other person's mind?
Or have you ever converted (hate that word) someone?
Yes, and that person suddenly saw the ridiculousness in her religious beliefs. She then said something that, in my opinion, is how most religious people feel.
I said to her, "Do you honestly believe that there is an ALLL-knowing, ALLLL-powerful, inVISible being, who created the WHOLE universe, and who lives in another dimension called heavennnnn?"
Her eyes went wide, as though a band-aid had been suddenly ripped from her brain. She then said, "But I HAVE to believe." With that statement comes the unspoken words: "even though I know it isn't true."
edit on 6/13/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
Your religion of evolution is no different , your priests the scientists put forth the dogma of evolution and that all living matter spontaneously occurred from non living matter . There is absolutely zero evidence for this happening yet because we are here this is your proof . The deeper scientists delve into the enigma of life the more they see intelligent design . Conservative estimates of the mathematical odds of one type of DNA forming naturally is 1 in 10 to the 40,000 that's a ten with forty thousand zeroes after it .
Your religion takes way more faith than the belief in God who left s proof of his existence through his prophets , I believe if you do an honest investigation into these prophecies using both the bible and secular sources you can only come to one conclusion , God is real and his prophets have told us the truth . Satan is also real and has worked very very hard to distort the truth with multiple lies , 99% of the churches perpetuate the lies of Satan and distort the truth of Gds word .
It starts at the very second verse of the bible , we're the simple word "WAS ". Was mistranslated and it should have been became . The world became void and without form . Genesis is the story of recreation of the earth not its original creation which happened in verse one hundreds of millions of years ago . We all lived on this earth in spiritual bodies for millions of years . All the monolithic structures around he world were built by us and survived the destruction of verse two of Genesis . This is our second time on earth , the first earth age was destroyed because Satan rose up against God convincing 1/3 of gods people to follow him , this is why the first earth age was destroyed .
christiananswers.net...
TextChemicals + Energy: Could They Have Given Birth to the First Life? One chemist has calculated the immense odds against amino acids ever combining to form the necessary proteins by undirected means. He estimated the probability to be more than 10 to the 67th to 1 (1067:1) against even a small protein forming by time and chance, in an ideal mixture of chemicals, in an ideal atmosphere, and given up to 100 billion years (an age 10 to 20 times greater than the supposed age of the Earth). [129] Mathematicians generally agree that, statistically, any odds beyond 1 in 10 to the 50th (1:1050) have a zero probability of ever happening (“and even that gives it the benefit of the doubt!”). [130]
Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by jiggerj
its not about the details in the myths,,, its about the conentation,, the meaning,,,,, if an aware creator created the universe,, it created the volcanoes,, and you and me..... indigenous people made up there own myths and stories, imagining the causes of these natural process' and forces.... regardless of what the indigenous people think or you and i think.,., a creator could have caused the universe to come into existence,, or it could have not.....
Originally posted by IEtherianSoul9
reply to post by Julio
I'm currently 0-3 (from what I can remember) in challenging someone to question their beliefs about a particular religion. They hold on so tightly to such dogmatic beliefs, it's difficult to rationalize with them. However, no matter how heated the debates get, at the end of the day, I still have to respect their beliefs.
I have to say though, the craziest thing I've heard my friend say (this was during high school) is that dinosaur fossils were put here by Satan do deceive us. [/quote
I think you are right..it is respecting their faith and what brings them peace in some way...
One girl once ask me why I did not attend church anymore.. I told her I had been to the top of the mountain and the view up there was magnificent and so much more than being in the valley closed in on all sides by hills and trees. She got the point and said ...I am safe in the valley...and I don't think I want to know what you saw...
Got one just as crazy as yours..I ask a pastor once about how he explained dinosaur bones..and got this answer. The dinosaurs died in the Flood...Sigh...
edit on 13-6-2012 by ellieN because: Typo
Originally posted by karen61057
Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by jiggerj
its not about the details in the myths,,, its about the conentation,, the meaning,,,,, if an aware creator created the universe,, it created the volcanoes,, and you and me..... indigenous people made up there own myths and stories, imagining the causes of these natural process' and forces.... regardless of what the indigenous people think or you and i think.,., a creator could have caused the universe to come into existence,, or it could have not.....
Why couldnt it just be chemical reactions and simple physics ? Why does an intelligence have to have started the fire ? Oh and we are indigenous people. ( only because you listed them seperatly like they were different from you and I.)
Originally posted by Julio
Originally posted by borntowatch
Why do we have so much diversity if we all come from the same amoeba or whatever you believe evolution teaches, why the diversity.
Its a double edged sword.
Whats your answer to that question
Silly argument a child can see through
Because mutations...?
There are 3 rabbits. Two are "regular" while the third has a mutation that gives it stronger hearing. They are being hunted by a wolf. The mutated rabbit hears the wolf first, and gets a head start on running away. It's the only survivor and so it passes on it's strong hearing genes. Continue this process hundreds of thousands of times over hundred of thousands of years and you get diversity.
Another thing to look at are islands. For instance, there are 6 rabbits. Suddenly, massive rainstorm. They are divided by a large river. One side of the river has wolves and the other side has owls or something. The rabbits on the side with owls will develop abilities for avoiding owls, and the rabbits on the wolf side will develop abilities for avoiding wolves using the process I mentioned above. After say 100,000 years, the river dries up, and the rabbits on one side can't mate with the rabbits on the other side because they are now separate species.
The rabbit example isn't the best, but it applies to everything. Just apply it to the first life that existed.
Originally posted by jiggerj
Originally posted by borntowatch
Originally posted by jiggerj
Yes, and that person suddenly saw the ridiculousness in her religious beliefs. She then said something that, in my opinion, is how most religious people feel.
I said to her, "Do you honestly believe that there is an ALLL-knowing, ALLLL-powerful, inVISible being, who created the WHOLE universe, and who lives in another dimension called heavennnnn?"
Her eyes went wide, as though a band-aid had been suddenly ripped from her brain. She then said, "But I HAVE to believe." With that statement comes the unspoken words: "even though I know it isn't true."
edit on 6/13/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
And you believe from nothing we get the full table of elements, light and heat then life and death and its meaningless. You and your argument is less than childish.
you honestly believe that there is an Noooo-knowing, Nooo-power, Nooo being, NOOOO nothing that created the WHOLE universe, and who doesnt exist in any dimension called anything?"
Facepalm.
Your words are just silly.
Wow! Talk about being brainwashed. You can't even see logic when it's right in your face. And then, you can't even see the good sense in your own statement. Your words are right on the money.
How about Pele, goddess of volcanoes? Prove to us that she doesn't exist. Of course, she doesn't exist, but you can't prove it. Kinda ridiculous to believe in her though, eh?
Originally posted by rhinoceros
Evolution doesn't teach that everything comes from some amoeba. Why are so quick to disregard the theory, when you haven't even bothered to find this out? Ultimately, diversity rises from imprecise replication of DNA (observed fact), and subsequent selection by nature (fact), repeated over and over (fact). This is the core of the modern theory of evolution. The first point was never part of Darwin's theory, and thus us learned find it cute when laymen call us Darwinists.edit on 13-6-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by HoppedUp
reply to post by IEtherianSoul9
I had someone use the ole "Dinosaur bones were put here by Satan to deceive us" argument too. Then I calmly asked, "What about algae, coelacanth, amoebas, crocodiles and viruses? These are also largely ancient lifeforms as well...but they are still with us to this day. Are they part of the evil Plot o' Satan too?"
That guy Satan...he's one busy dude. In between his epic bioengineering feats to trick us hapless humans, he's also behind every bad thing that happens on Earth and aliens...forgot about those. Yeah, he's behind UFO's and aliens too. Dang, one hell of a gig.
Dinosaur fossils are found in sedimentary rock, while isotopes like uranium-238, uranium-235 and potassium-40 -- which, remember, have the required long half-lives of more than 1 million years -- are found in igneous (volcanic) rock. So scientists look for the layers of igneous rock (typically from volcanic ash) that "sandwich" the fossil-bearing layer. These igneous rocks -- the "bread" of the sandwich -- can be dated, leaving a bracketed period of time (in between the slices of bread) in which the sedimentary rocks with the dinosaur remains must have been formed. This allows scientists to affix a rough age range to dinosaur fossils, all thanks to the layers of time stacked upon each other in the earth around us.
Originally posted by borntowatch
Prove they are old, prove to me the geological time scale is accurate.
Its a silly silly belief.
www.zimbio.com...
Go study some cryptozoology
Originally posted by Archangelelijah
reply to post by Julio
Yes, I have changed peoples views.
If you understand the fundermentals of the physical form or matter, it is quite easy actually.
With the bible written and other religious texts to produce faith in ones spirit with the internal positive energy of your Mind, Heart & Soul (+) giving you your spirit. This is why Jesus died on this symbol for all humans.
Externally, everything on Earth is known as Satans domain in knowledge through learning due to the fact that every living thing from plants, animals and humans are all externally made of Fire. The three elements in Fire are Fuel, ( Food ), Heat, ( Hot & Cold ), & Oxygen. Fire has a burning effect when physically touched which is the negative energy of the physical world and this is what happens to us externally in life. This is why every assosiation world wide is formed on a triangular structure. Kings, Queens, Presidents, Primeministers, Captains ect lead from the top and are followed by the general public underneath them. The top guiding for direction as a figure head while the bottom supports the top in labour.
Reverse Live and you recieve Evil, Reverse Lived and you recieve the Devil. Reverse God and you recieve Dog meaning loyal companion.
Humans are living batteries on Earth of negative and positive energy! The Positive of different religions and faith in eachothers spirit has assisted eachothers culture like familys which have got humans to where we are today.
This is why it's considered the 3rd Dimension!
Quo: Many churches and many different religions decide to bypass the intellect and rest upon the opening of the heart. They engage in song after song that praises the one infinite Creator within the language and clothing of that particular religion. Their members are perhaps encouraged to pray out loud and to become ecstatic. And in the surging of the rhythmic cadences of the songs, in the prayers and the praise, the love and light of the one infinite Creator seem palpable. And therefore the experience of those seeking the Creator in these ways has a certain amount of purity to it which is missing from those more intellectually organized religions where the mind is the tool used to probe at the meaning of life, of what it is to be a human being and what it is to serve the one infinite Creator.
Originally posted by borntowatch
Originally posted by Julio
Originally posted by borntowatch
Why do we have so much diversity if we all come from the same amoeba or whatever you believe evolution teaches, why the diversity.
Its a double edged sword.
Whats your answer to that question
Silly argument a child can see through
Because mutations...?
There are 3 rabbits. Two are "regular" while the third has a mutation that gives it stronger hearing. They are being hunted by a wolf. The mutated rabbit hears the wolf first, and gets a head start on running away. It's the only survivor and so it passes on it's strong hearing genes. Continue this process hundreds of thousands of times over hundred of thousands of years and you get diversity.
Another thing to look at are islands. For instance, there are 6 rabbits. Suddenly, massive rainstorm. They are divided by a large river. One side of the river has wolves and the other side has owls or something. The rabbits on the side with owls will develop abilities for avoiding owls, and the rabbits on the wolf side will develop abilities for avoiding wolves using the process I mentioned above. After say 100,000 years, the river dries up, and the rabbits on one side can't mate with the rabbits on the other side because they are now separate species.
The rabbit example isn't the best, but it applies to everything. Just apply it to the first life that existed.
Hey einsteis we can say that about people as well, Duh.
Mutations are not mutually exclusive to evolution. your argument is that of a child
By the way with all this technology at your fingertips and all your little Pleb mates to help can you show me a beneficial mutation....I will even say please. No assumptions I want to see the evidence.
or is that just your faith that dictates that belief, sounds like you are more religious than me.
Originally posted by borntowatch
As a Christian I question my faith the Bible other Christians constantly.
Christianity is not exclusive, we live in the world watch TV and listen to Dawkinses and Hitchenses all the time.
You surmise that we as a faith are insular, you also surmise that we dont understand the ridiculousness of the Creator taking human form to save our wretched skins.
We do.
Faith is not something we choose, God gives us faith and that faith is evidence of the truth, seriously do you think I would accept that story if I didnt have God given faith?
Humanity can not change what God has given us.
Cactus thinks to highly of himself, humanity has very few answers when it comes to the crunch. None more relevant than life and death. Death is a new beginning, Cactus offers nothing and people are sick and tired of nothing.
Hope is important and atheism offers nothing at all, no hope as well as nothing.edit on 13-6-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ExquisitExamplE
Rarely has it happened, at least directly. I am a proponent of "The Law of One"; the philosophy that we are all individuated sparks of the One Infinite Creator, who is not an ontic god, doesn't judge us any more that we judge ourselves. The entirety of creation is the creator experiencing itself. What I've found is that if you present these ideas to people, they will pursue them largely on their own terms, and in their own time, there is rarely a split-instant realization/conversion, One must first convince oneself of truth.
Additionally, I used to rail against members of "Orthodox religions", knowing that they had the basic idea right, but were so caught up in the dogma of their particular religion that they were unable to see the greater truth. Then, I came across this quote from the Quo transcripts that makes a great deal of sense to me:
Quo: Many churches and many different religions decide to bypass the intellect and rest upon the opening of the heart. They engage in song after song that praises the one infinite Creator within the language and clothing of that particular religion. Their members are perhaps encouraged to pray out loud and to become ecstatic. And in the surging of the rhythmic cadences of the songs, in the prayers and the praise, the love and light of the one infinite Creator seem palpable. And therefore the experience of those seeking the Creator in these ways has a certain amount of purity to it which is missing from those more intellectually organized religions where the mind is the tool used to probe at the meaning of life, of what it is to be a human being and what it is to serve the one infinite Creator.
I hope this has perhaps been helpful for you, Namaste!