Have you ever made someone question their beliefs via religious debate?, page 1

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Topic started on 12-6-2012 @ 11:47 PM by Julio

This goes both ways;

In an evolution vs creation debate, have you managed to open the other person's mind?
Or have you ever converted (hate that word) someone?

The reason I ask this is because I see countless threads debating the same thing, whether it's on Facebook, Youtube, ATS, or random forums, and I never actually see someone question themselves.

(the following is just personal experience with the matter so feel free to skip past it, it's not that important

)

~~~
I am an atheist. About two years ago, me and my ex were having a debate about evolution vs creation. I was very surprised that she didn't understand the basic concept of what evolution was, and as I explained it to her, she began to question what she's believed in all her life. Last time I talked to her (around 6 months ago), she was still unsure what she believed in, having come from a born-again christian family.

Like I said, I am an atheist. I have never believed in any sort of god. The entire idea of it seems incredibly silly. However, sometimes when I read stories about ghostly encounters I really start to wonder. Millions of ghostly experiences have to mean something, right? Not everyone can simply be putting on hoaxes. Religious people call ghosts demons, and it actually creeps me out. I also get the heebie jeebies when I walk by a church. What bugs me is I don't believe it, yet it still is creepy.

~~~

Slightly unrelated, but what does is mean when people say they have a relationship with God? People will sometimes say they talk to God and God talks back. Please, no half-assed "it's an experience you can't explain, man", just give me the straight facts. I am legitimately curious, and I won't make fun of you. I get very frustrated when I ask a religious person what seems to be a simple question and they quote something out of the big B or speak in riddles.

reply posted on 12-6-2012 @ 11:53 PM by hoochymama

Nope. But, maybe my problem is finding someone who questions there FAITH. The argument always used "you cant see Oxygen so how do you know its there". LOL. That means I have a discussion with idiots which isnt fair, cuz in this world the Idiot always wins.

edit on 12-6-2012 by hoochymama because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-6-2012 @ 11:57 PM by satron

I made someone cry before. Wasn't trying to, but I can't put up with stupid.

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:04 AM by jiggerj

Originally posted by Julio
This goes both ways;

In an evolution vs creation debate, have you managed to open the other person's mind?
Or have you ever converted (hate that word) someone?

Yes, and that person suddenly saw the ridiculousness in her religious beliefs. She then said something that, in my opinion, is how most religious people feel.

I said to her, "Do you honestly believe that there is an ALLL-knowing, ALLLL-powerful, inVISible being, who created the WHOLE universe, and who lives in another dimension called heavennnnn?"

Her eyes went wide, as though a band-aid had been suddenly ripped from her brain. She then said, "But I HAVE to believe." With that statement comes the unspoken words: "even though I know it isn't true."

edit on 6/13/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:07 AM by IEtherianSoul9

reply to post by Julio

I'm currently 0-3 (from what I can remember) in challenging someone to question their beliefs about a particular religion. They hold on so tightly to such dogmatic beliefs, it's difficult to rationalize with them. However, no matter how heated the debates get, at the end of the day, I still have to respect their beliefs.

I have to say though, the craziest thing I've heard my friend say (this was during high school) is that dinosaur fossils were put here by Satan do deceive us.

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:13 AM by NotApplicable

I wouldn't say I have opened minds so much as simply made people think about/question theif beliefs. I have been in this order: a christian (baptist and methodist), a wiccan, an atheist, a new ager, a muslim, an agnostic, and finally arrived at a point where I do not consider myself a part of any religion. The word "God" has so many different meanings attatched to it. I know what I consider god to be; a part of myself, everyone, and everything.

I didn't need religion to teach me moral values because I learned them through experience, as my childhood was very rough. I learned most everything NOT to do because I witnessed it with my own eyes. If by chance I made the same mistake twice my understanding of that particular moral was fortified. I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but my answers are exclusive for me because everyone has their own path and way of understanding.

One thing I have mentioned to people that is very mind opening/blowing is as follows:

If you take a glass of water and add a few cubes of ice to it, the water level rises... right?
and if you remove the cubes, the water level decreases.
NOW
If you took every living thing out of the ocean, wouldn't the water level decrease? So is the planet really three quarters water?

Estimated 50-70% of living things on earth lives in the ocean. I would say that would be a tremendous decrease in water level.

Why did no one take into consideration the volume of living things in the ocean when calculating the amount of water on earth?

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:14 AM by Archangelelijah

reply to post by Julio

Yes, I have changed peoples views.

If you understand the fundermentals of the physical form or matter, it is quite easy actually.

With the bible written and other religious texts to produce faith in ones spirit with the internal positive energy of your Mind, Heart & Soul (+) giving you your spirit. This is why Jesus died on this symbol for all humans.

Externally, everything on Earth is known as Satans domain in knowledge through learning due to the fact that every living thing from plants, animals and humans are all externally made of Fire. The three elements in Fire are Fuel, ( Food ), Heat, ( Hot & Cold ), & Oxygen. Fire has a burning effect when physically touched which is the negative energy of the physical world and this is what happens to us externally in life. This is why every assosiation world wide is formed on a triangular structure. Kings, Queens, Presidents, Primeministers, Captains ect lead from the top and are followed by the general public underneath them. The top guiding for direction as a figure head while the bottom supports the top in labour.

Reverse Live and you recieve Evil, Reverse Lived and you recieve the Devil. Reverse God and you recieve Dog meaning loyal companion.

Humans are living batteries on Earth of negative and positive energy! The Positive of different religions and faith in eachothers spirit has assisted eachothers culture like familys which have got humans to where we are today.

This is why it's considered the 3rd Dimension!

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:18 AM by IEtherianSoul9

Originally posted by NotApplicable
One thing I have mentioned to people that is very mind opening/blowing is as follows:

If you take a glass of water and add a few cubes of ice to it, the water level rises... right?
and if you remove the cubes, the water level decreases.
NOW
If you took every living thing out of the ocean, wouldn't the water level decrease? So is the planet really three quarters water?

Estimated 50-70% of living things on earth lives in the ocean. I would say that would be a tremendous decrease in water level.

Why did no one take into consideration the volume of living things in the ocean when calculating the amount of water on earth?

LOL, I'm pretty sure the rapper Canibus said that or maybe you just came to the same conclusion as him.

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:22 AM by jiggerj

Originally posted by Archangelelijah
reply to post by Julio

Yes, I have changed peoples views.

If you understand the fundermentals of the physical form or matter, it is quite easy actually.

With the bible written and other religious texts to produce faith in ones spirit with the internal positive energy of your Mind, Heart & Soul (+) giving you your spirit. This is why Jesus died on this symbol for all humans.

Externally, everything on Earth is known as Satans domain in knowledge through learning due to the fact that every living thing from plants, animals and humans are all externally made of Fire. The three elements in Fire are Fuel, ( Food ), Heat, ( Hot & Cold ), & Oxygen. Fire has a burning effect when physically touched which is the negative energy of the physical world and this is what happens to us externally in life. This is why every assosiation world wide is formed on a triangular structure. Kings, Queens, Presidents, Primeministers, Captains ect lead from the top and are followed by the general public underneath them. The top guiding for direction as a figure head while the bottom supports the top in labour.

Reverse Live and you recieve Evil, Reverse Lived and you recieve the Devil. Reverse God and you recieve Dog meaning loyal companion.

Humans are living batteries on Earth of negative and positive energy! The Positive of different religions and faith in eachothers spirit has assisted eachothers culture like familys which have got humans to where we are today.

This is why it's considered the 3rd Dimension!

Though I don't follow your faith I have to say your statement was very original. S for you.

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:23 AM by CaticusMaximus

reply to post by Julio

Yes, I have had people question their beliefs, but not through "debate". You have to go about it a certain way... you cant argue with them and take a hardline stance; that never works. What I have done is casually mention facts, and not even mention anything about beliefs at all. Just facts, that might be contrary to their beliefs, but never addressing those beliefs specifically.

Without challenging the persons belief directly, they are far less likely to dig their heels in, put up their Thought Crime defenses, and resist everything they hear.

You plant the seed of doubt into their mind. And then leave it.

Every so often, now and then, you can come back to the subject by some innocuous means, and water that seed with more information that contradicts their beliefs. But that seed has to grow on its own; you cant make it grow.

It might take years, and you usually wont receive the credit (or shame) for it, But the information the person took in will eventually cause them to question, and force them to validate its authenticity. Whether they accept or reject the conclusions they arrive at, is up to them.

The slow approach also works wonderfully when trying to expose someone to things like the NWO, TPTB, the monumental corruption in the world, etc. Ive used it successfully multiple times. However you cannot make someone believe anything they dont want to believe. Its the whole lead a horse to water, thing. Most people are trying to FORCE the horse to drink. Cant do it.

You have to let it drink on its own.

edit on 6/13/2012 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:24 AM by NotApplicable

reply to post by IEtherianSoul9

Wow! I was hoping someone would make the reference, but I never imagined how fast. He speaks a lot of truth in volumes!

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:37 AM by borntowatch

As a Christian I question my faith the Bible other Christians constantly.
Christianity is not exclusive, we live in the world watch TV and listen to Dawkinses and Hitchenses all the time.
You surmise that we as a faith are insular, you also surmise that we dont understand the ridiculousness of the Creator taking human form to save our wretched skins.
We do.
Faith is not something we choose, God gives us faith and that faith is evidence of the truth, seriously do you think I would accept that story if I didnt have God given faith?

Humanity can not change what God has given us.

Cactus thinks to highly of himself, humanity has very few answers when it comes to the crunch. None more relevant than life and death. Death is a new beginning, Cactus offers nothing and people are sick and tired of nothing.
Hope is important and atheism offers nothing at all, no hope as well as nothing.

edit on 13-6-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:47 AM by borntowatch

Originally posted by jiggerj

Yes, and that person suddenly saw the ridiculousness in her religious beliefs. She then said something that, in my opinion, is how most religious people feel.

I said to her, "Do you honestly believe that there is an ALLL-knowing, ALLLL-powerful, inVISible being, who created the WHOLE universe, and who lives in another dimension called heavennnnn?"

Her eyes went wide, as though a band-aid had been suddenly ripped from her brain. She then said, "But I HAVE to believe." With that statement comes the unspoken words: "even though I know it isn't true."

edit on 6/13/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

And you believe from nothing we get the full table of elements, light and heat then life and death and its meaningless. You and your argument is less than childish.

you honestly believe that there is an Noooo-knowing, Nooo-power, Nooo being, NOOOO nothing that created the WHOLE universe, and who doesnt exist in any dimension called anything?"
Facepalm.
Your words are just silly.

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:48 AM by borntowatch

Originally posted by satron
I made someone cry before. Wasn't trying to, but I can't put up with stupid.

Hence why I try stay out of arguments with your kind.

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:51 AM by sinohptik

reply to post by Julio

Your inquiry seems honest, and I find the topic itself fascinating.

On all sides of the fence, I see people trying to convince others that their perspective is the "Truth." Very, very few are interested in actually learning about anothers perspective. I find many, including myself, dont fully realize the disparity between two different "sentient" beings trying to communicate something beyond words. By "beyond words" I mean pretty much anything from current thoughts, memories, concepts, etc. This is why so many use riddles, because it foregoes the intrinsic limited nature of words and attempts to point to the experience itself. The idea is also said as "a picture is worth a thousand words." I like to communicate it as asking someone to describe the last amazing sunset they saw, so that I may know exactly what they experienced. Actually whittling down this experience into words would become so verbose, it would defeat the purpose right from the start.

The concept may seem basic to some, but when I say I believe in God or that I claim Christianity, others consistently use their preconceived notions about such a word to define how I see it. Instead of realizing the diversity and independence that actually exists between two beings, much less the human race in totality. Nothing can ever be said to sway such stances, the individual must decide for themselves.

If one forces their idea of "truth" on another, I find it rather distasteful as well as arrogant. If one can help another question their own inherently limited perspective of "truth," then I find that to be a beautiful thing. Though, both can end up having the same result.

I encourage others to have me question my beliefs. It is an avenue of growth. Though, it usually devolves (if it ever started out at a "high level" in the first place) into a debate where the intent is to "win" rather than to "learn." When we are speaking of us, as humans, neither side has the whole truth, innately. But, the goal tends to be to "conquer" by any means necessary. Including, apparently, making others cry.

Thinking that we individually, as pieces of the puzzle, have access the the "whole picture" is the very definition of missing the forest for the trees. Oh well. Its funny in its way

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:56 AM by TribeOfManyColours

That all knowing being was the force singularity a balance of dark and light matter that suddenly exploded en released all the elements.
Then evolution of time began.
The giants came first, roamed the universe for resources.
Found earth in their time of distress, cause their planet was dying. ( god cast them out, fallen ones BS story)
Annunaki came down had to work, got tired.

Got some apes mixed mashed DNA sequence and hoppa we serve them.
Got their stuff left the earth, noticed that we where connected to the source above them.
Had a discussion and left us in our evolution process alone.

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:58 AM by Kangaruex4Ewe

Mom and Dad always said to never discuss religion or politics and I stick to one of those... religiously.

As a Christian, I will enter into a discussion with anyone who would like to have one. However, I do not beat people over the head with my beliefs, nor do I expect them to take them as their own. I do not expect others to tip toe around me because of what I believe in. If I am offended, I can leave or choose to ignore it.

I will rarely enter any religious discussion here because it is never civil and the odds of changing ones mind is slim to none. There are not many people walking around who do not understand the basic principles of Christianity and me reiterating those are not going to turn water into wine.

I am also very comfortable with my own beliefs and while I have researched own my own, I have never had anyone sway me even close to thinking that there is no God. I have had changes in beliefs about certain matters as pertains to the AA Theories and the like, but the basic belief will always be with me regardless, so I find no point in debating with those whose main goal is to make me feel stupid for believing or to make me believe there is no higher power at all.

It kind of saves both parties time and oxygen.

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 12:59 AM by sinohptik

reply to post by NotApplicable

Remember too, that most living organisms are made up of significant percentages of water. I have little doubt someone has done a calculation taking these things into account though. If it actually interests you that much, try google?

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 01:00 AM by TribeOfManyColours

reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

Why do people kneel for the pope ore pray to the teacher Jesus?
God is the only one??

Sorry i didnt want to reply only to you, yet I hit the reply button. I got the impuls after reading your comment

edit on 13-6-2012 by TribeOfManyColours because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-6-2012 @ 01:02 AM by Kangaruex4Ewe

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

Why do people kneel for the pope ore pray to the teacher Jesus?
God is the only one??

I have "No Hope In The Pope" as I am not Catholic and am not qualified to answer for them.

God IS the only ONE for me, in that you would be correct.

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