Have you ever made someone question their beliefs via religious debate?

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
My step father, who is my dad AFAIAC possessed fairly conventional Christian religious views. I was a dyed-in-the-wool heathen non-believer. We used to argue back and forth, and -- over the years -- we have had some fantastic discussions. 20 years on, dad now questions the church and religious authority, and I question the notion that there is no god or maker.

So you see, sometimes people do change.

That's wonderful Ozzy, it takes a big person to say I will consider your point of view, and an even bigger person to really consider none of us have all the answers.

IN fact I bet we are way off.

As this is a loaded question which requires participants to show their conviction, it is expected to get heated, however Please discuss the topic without resorting to Name Calling and Personal Attacks.

Mod Edit: ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics - Please Review This Link.

reply to post by john_bmth


John, you seem so angry, Do you know where that anger comes from?

You are having a spiritual experiences.

Become one with the anger.

I did.

We were debating evolution vs creation.

I asked the question, "Why do people have different genes..like for eye color, hair color etc if Adam was created by god and eve was created from Adams rib?" That would mean that we should all have identical DNA.

I felt bad when I saw how the person reacted to this statement. They seriously started questioning their religion.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Thank you! Our relationship is stronger than ever, and while I can't speak for him personally, I can honestly say that I miss nothing about my previous "hard stance" against god and religion. I probably won't be joining a church any time soon, but I now look at "believers" in a very different way. We are all on a path of learning and growth, one way or another. We are all seeking something. I can't fault anyone for their path, so long as it brings peace, joy, and greater love to their journey.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Anger? Nope, I think you're projecting your own inner turmoil onto me. Perhaps your eyes are finally being opened and you're laying the cognitive dissonance of your implausible beliefs with reality to rest?

reply to post by Wildbob77

I felt bad when I saw how the person reacted to this statement. They seriously started questioning their religion.

That is something I want to avoid at all cost, I don't want to rob someone of their faith, or lead anyone down the wrong path.

Losing my religion was like death, sometimes I wish I never searched for the answers I found.

Let it be their own personally journey.

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Anger? Nope, I think you're projecting your own inner turmoil onto me. Perhaps your eyes are finally being opened and you're laying the cognitive dissonance of your implausible beliefs with reality to rest?

Honey, my eyes have been opened a long time.

You are not telling me anything I haven't heard before, tell me something I don't know.

Wow guys! I didn't think this would get to 5 pages overnight...I just spent this morning reading everyone's posts, and while I wish I could reply to everyone, I simply don't have the time. However I've picked this post to reply to, as some of the things in it really bug me...

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
Seems you do not know the basic concept of what evolution is either for if you believe it you have more faith in your religious belief then she does.

Okay. Woah. No. "faith in your religious belief". What does that even mean? Atheism is the complete lack of faith and a creator. I noticed a few other people attributed atheism to a religion, and I'm not sure if they were just trying to bug atheists or genuinely thought it to be a religion.

Perhaps it is I who does not know what atheist means. It's just what I call myself.
- I do not believe in a god, or multiple gods.
- I do not believe in magic or magical talking animals.
- I know what I know. For instance, I know that if I throw an coconut in the air, it will fall back down because of gravity. If the coconut does not return, then I break down the reasoning behind why it didn't. Perhaps an African Swallow caught it in mid-air. This is entirely different from blind faith.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
Also to take the religious belief that there is no God you must know everything, but I would bet you do not know half of everything or have been everywhere and since you have not and do not God could exist in the unknown regions of your knowledge.

I have never claimed to know everything. It's actually quite the opposite; I am comfortable in knowing what I know, and not knowing what I don't know. This is opposite for believers; they are not comfortable in not knowing what they don't know. They try and fill the empty spaces with magical entities and wild stories. How does the Sun "come up" in the morning? It's a flaming chariot. At least, that's what some people thought for a very long time.

I don't know when the universe began. I don't know how many planets have intelligent life on them. However, I can break it down. I know the universe began at some point before the Earth was created. I know that there are millions of planets in our solar system alone, so the probability of life or something similar, is very high. I am content with not knowing 100% these things.

And once again, it is not a religious belief to not believe in God. Please, EVERYONE, stop with that. It is the LACK of belief.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

It is sad that she does not go to a church or educate herself in the creation as if you are a self thinker you should really I mean really look into the creation science aspect of belief in God, it does not use junk science as we are under the microscope more the the fairy tale evolution side of the religion.

I had to read that sentence a few times to understand what you were trying to say, and I think I still might be a bit confused by it, but I'll answer best I can.

She [my ex] went to church every Sunday. Her born-again Christian mother was [probably is still] a Sunday school teacher. She had a strong understanding of Christianity. She knew some creation "science" but wasn't a genius on it.

"junk science"
"fairy tale evolution"

What part of evolution do you believe to be junk science? I am not being hostile, this is a sincere question.

There is a lot of obvious irony behind you calling evolution a fairy tale. Evolution is a theory. I know that it is a theory. However, at one time the Earth being round was a theory also. That's the thing with science; you get facts and try to piece them together. When you have enough pieces for something that could work without flaw, you get a theory. There are mountains of evidence for evolution. If you ever have a question, feel free to start a thread here and I'm sure there will be a lot of people happy to help you out.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

Dear Heavenly Father may you reaffirm this believer and show this unbeliever the evidence of a creation through supernatural order, and how evolution is a lie used to deceive people into not believing in Jesus as the creator who died upon

IN Jesus Name I pray amen.

I have been prayed for before, and I have tried to talk to God before. Didn't seem to work for me. I gave it an honest effort, too. Thanks

A few athiests I have debated graduated to agnostics, and 2 in particular to born again Christians. Most people (especially those in America) are so distracted with entertainment, that they will go through most of their life and never stop and think about why they exist, or where they came from.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I did.

We were debating evolution vs creation.

I asked the question, "Why do people have different genes..like for eye color, hair color etc if Adam was created by god and eve was created from Adams rib?" That would mean that we should all have identical DNA.

I felt bad when I saw how the person reacted to this statement. They seriously started questioning their religion.

Why do we have so much diversity if we all come from the same amoeba or whatever you believe evolution teaches, why the diversity.
Its a double edged sword.
Whats your answer to that question
Silly argument a child can see through

reply to post by Julio

I noticed a few other people attributed atheism to a religion,

I think some become cultist and dogmatic, a few weeks ago I went into the atheist room on paltalk, the title at the time was " all god believers are idiots."

Of course I couldn't pass that up,

Originally posted by borntowatch

Why do we have so much diversity if we all come from the same amoeba or whatever you believe evolution teaches, why the diversity.
Its a double edged sword.
Whats your answer to that question
Silly argument a child can see through

Because mutations...?

There are 3 rabbits. Two are "regular" while the third has a mutation that gives it stronger hearing. They are being hunted by a wolf. The mutated rabbit hears the wolf first, and gets a head start on running away. It's the only survivor and so it passes on it's strong hearing genes. Continue this process hundreds of thousands of times over hundred of thousands of years and you get diversity.

Another thing to look at are islands. For instance, there are 6 rabbits. Suddenly, massive rainstorm. They are divided by a large river. One side of the river has wolves and the other side has owls or something. The rabbits on the side with owls will develop abilities for avoiding owls, and the rabbits on the wolf side will develop abilities for avoiding wolves using the process I mentioned above. After say 100,000 years, the river dries up, and the rabbits on one side can't mate with the rabbits on the other side because they are now separate species.


The rabbit example isn't the best, but it applies to everything. Just apply it to the first life that existed.

Sam Harris has mentioned this on a few occasions, it's not human nature to concede doubt or error in the heat of battle.

People evolve their principles and come to change positions and see things differently in private.

You'd be lucky to see an Atheist turn Christian in a debate, or vice versa, despite this happening tens of millions of times a year.

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Losing my religion was like death, sometimes I wish I never searched for the answers I found.

Leaving the religion that was pounded into my head through childhood was nothing like death, it was more like Freedom, and a new life. No more would I be afraid of the mythical characters made up by the church, nor of the made up places they always talk about, and the made up demons they attempt to scare everyone with.

Let it be their own personally journey.

That is good advice right there. Let everyone have their own personal journey of knowledge and wisdom, or not, as the case may be. Not one of us really know how it all began, so the constant debates between creation and evolution are moot points, aren't they?

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Losing my religion was like death, sometimes I wish I never searched for the answers I found.

Leaving the religion that was pounded into my head through childhood was nothing like death, it was more like Freedom, and a new life. No more would I be afraid of the mythical characters made up by the church, nor of the made up places they always talk about, and the made up demons they attempt to scare everyone with.

Let it be their own personally journey.

That is good advice right there. Let everyone have their own personal journey of knowledge and wisdom, or not, as the case may be. Not one of us really know how it all began, so the constant debates between creation and evolution are moot points, aren't they?

They are moot points, but usually when I get into a debate about it, it's because of gay abuse or other forms of religious bullying. People are entitled to their own opinions, but when those opinions start causing deaths and other awful things, it's really hard for me to keep my mouth shut.

reply to post by autowrench


As far as I am concerned, yes, they are moot.

I know what you mean by pounded into your head, that happens, not necessarily in my case, cause although mom was devout she was also spooky, she loved the occult. She was a natural, if you know what I mean.
LMAO

And my grandmother and grandfather left the Catholic church before I was born, I never knew for sure why.

I guess hell was my biggest hurdle, I am 62 years old and still am struggling, I know better but hell scares me.

" crosses self."

reply to post by Julio

it's because of gay abuse or other forms of religious bullying.

I was not raised in that kind of atmosphere, most likely because back in the day that wasn't a topic of conversation.

Lol. I love religion threads, and religion discussions. Even when they are supposed to be subtle, they always spiral out of control. Always. It is virtually impossible to debate it.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Why do we have so much diversity if we all come from the same amoeba or whatever you believe evolution teaches, why the diversity.
Its a double edged sword.
Whats your answer to that question
Silly argument a child can see through

Evolution doesn't teach that everything comes from some amoeba. Why are so quick to disregard the theory, when you haven't even bothered to find this out? Ultimately, diversity rises from imprecise replication of DNA (observed fact), and subsequent selection by nature (fact), repeated over and over (fact). This is the core of the modern theory of evolution. The first point was never part of Darwin's theory, and thus us learned find it cute when laymen call us Darwinists.