Have you ever made someone question their beliefs via religious debate?

Originally posted by john_bmth
Stop lying to yourself and others.

1 - I don't lie. Apologize for saying I do.
2 - How about you apologize for telling that I lie. Man up. Apologize.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
There's a good fossil record from lama-like land animal to whales. ... Just look for it.

1 - Then post it.
2 - It's not my job to go hunting for your information. It's YOUR job.
3 - Man up and apologize for calling me a liar.

ATTENTION - I'll spoon feed this information to you to make sure it actually gets through ... Telling people that we don't have all the facts is NOT a lie. Telling people that we are very small and uneducated in what is going on in the universe is NOT a lie. Telling people on both sides of the discussion to have an open mind because nothing is rock solid in fact is NOT a lie. Calling me a liar for saying those things ... it's moronic. Grow up.

That's not a valid definition of a theory.

That description of what a theory is .. is just fine.
So sorry it doesn't fit into your myopic version of reality.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Why is the religious person ignorant and the atheist is not?

Obnoxious .. isn't it? :shk: The extremist evolutionary types are just as religious with their UNPROVEN beliefs as the fundamentalist christians are with theirs. And yet, they can't see it and they whine about the religious creationists when in fact they are acting the exact same way. Throwing stones in glass houses ...



reply to post by rhinoceros

What the hell are you talking about? What does George Bush have to do with any of the discussion? Do you even remember what it is? "Have you ever made someone question their beliefs via religious debate." (in regards to Creation vs Evolution)

Originally posted by autowrench
I am a Wiccan,

Harm none. Probably the most peaceful religion on the planet.

As far as the Creation/Evolution debate goes, both exists, don't they? I mean something made this, and this then evolved to it's present state of existence.

THERE YA" GO ... exactly what I was saying. It's amazing that people think it has to be one or the other. It easily could be both. Or even something else we don't know about yet. There is no 'absolute' fact when it comes to how people came to be on the planet. Nothing has been proven. We simply don't know.

TextThe famous moving goal post. We ignore the mountain of evidence in favor of evolution and move past subjects covered by the theory. Add some copypasta age old debunked creationist propaganda and embrace the ignorance. Why it's always like this? Why not just once a creationist could argue with facts and reason? Ah yeah.. because it's impossible as these support the very thing they deny. edit on 13-6-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

reply to post by rhinoceros


Those are hard facts the bottom line is that you ignore them and by pass these insurmountable obstacles to draw your conclusions . If we evolved we're is your proof , we're are all the animals in various stages of evolution . The answer is there is not and never will be . The theory that evolutionists ascribe to is a joke , this coming from one that believed in evolution somewhat until I did some real checking into the facts of both sides and the bottom line is the theory of evolution holds no water and never will .

reply to post by Julio


I have had debates about religious issues and convinced someone not to be judgmental about gay people. One has since given up religion entirely. I don't take any credit for that, but I do feel that my discussion with them helped to open their mind to make room for some critical thought.

I also had a debate about abortion (for religious reasons) and the person, who was once anit-abortion, came out of it as pro-choice.

Originally posted by Azadok2day

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Julio
This goes both ways;

In an evolution vs creation debate, have you managed to open the other person's mind?
Or have you ever converted (hate that word) someone?

Yes, and that person suddenly saw the ridiculousness in her religious beliefs. She then said something that, in my opinion, is how most religious people feel.

I said to her, "Do you honestly believe that there is an ALLL-knowing, ALLLL-powerful, inVISible being, who created the WHOLE universe, and who lives in another dimension called heavennnnn?"

Her eyes went wide, as though a band-aid had been suddenly ripped from her brain. She then said, "But I HAVE to believe." With that statement comes the unspoken words: "even though I know it isn't true."

edit on 6/13/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Your religion of evolution is no different , your priests the scientists put forth the dogma of evolution and that all living matter spontaneously occurred from non living matter . There is absolutely zero evidence for this happening yet because we are here this is your proof . The deeper scientists delve into the enigma of life the more they see intelligent design . Conservative estimates of the mathematical odds of one type of DNA forming naturally is 1 in 10 to the 40,000 that's a ten with forty thousand zeroes after it .

Your religion takes way more faith than the belief in God who left s proof of his existence through his prophets , I believe if you do an honest investigation into these prophecies using both the bible and secular sources you can only come to one conclusion , God is real and his prophets have told us the truth . Satan is also real and has worked very very hard to distort the truth with multiple lies , 99% of the churches perpetuate the lies of Satan and distort the truth of Gds word .

It starts at the very second verse of the bible , we're the simple word "WAS ". Was mistranslated and it should have been became . The world became void and without form . Genesis is the story of recreation of the earth not its original creation which happened in verse one hundreds of millions of years ago . We all lived on this earth in spiritual bodies for millions of years . All the monolithic structures around he world were built by us and survived the destruction of verse two of Genesis . This is our second time on earth , the first earth age was destroyed because Satan rose up against God convincing 1/3 of gods people to follow him , this is why the first earth age was destroyed .

christiananswers.net...

TextChemicals + Energy: Could They Have Given Birth to the First Life? One chemist has calculated the immense odds against amino acids ever combining to form the necessary proteins by undirected means. He estimated the probability to be more than 10 to the 67th to 1 (1067:1) against even a small protein forming by time and chance, in an ideal mixture of chemicals, in an ideal atmosphere, and given up to 100 billion years (an age 10 to 20 times greater than the supposed age of the Earth). [129] Mathematicians generally agree that, statistically, any odds beyond 1 in 10 to the 50th (1:1050) have a zero probability of ever happening (“and even that gives it the benefit of the doubt!”). [130]

Ok first problem is that you mixed Abiogenesis(theory) with Evolution(fact).

2nd is, instead of joining forces as one and saying "A God"(what a smart religious person would have done), you divided yourself and "said" "Christianity has all the answers".

Originally posted by rhinoceros
Why not just once a creationist could argue with facts and reason? Ah yeah.. because it's impossible as these support the very thing they deny

Why not just once an evolutionist could agrue with facts and reason? Ah yeah .. because it's impossible as these support the very thing they deny.

FACT - we don't know for sure how we got here.
FACT - there are many theories .. none of which have been proven absolutely true.
FACT - Natural selection is not evolution.
FACT - Some evolutionists (a sample of that can be seen on this thread), childishly resort to name calling and telling lies about those who don't worship at the altar of evolution like they do.
FACT - The majority of Christians believe in both evolution and creationism as a part of their religion ... that God exists and that he easily could have used evolution to create humans. For instance, the leadership of the Catholic church have come out with this statement.
FACT - many evolutionists treat evolution as their religion .. they are myopic and they dismiss the fact that their theory is unproven - just like some Christian fundamentalists - whom they love to bash and hate on. Two peas in a pod. It's absurdly silly.

Originally posted by luciddream
Ok first problem is that you mixed Abiogenesis(theory) with Evolution(fact).

Ok first problem is that you said evolution is a fact. It's just a theory at this point.
(the rest I agree with ya' .. )

Originally posted by hoochymama
Nope. But, maybe my problem is finding someone who questions there FAITH. The argument always used "you cant see Oxygen so how do you know its there". LOL. That means I have a discussion with idiots which isnt fair, cuz in this world the Idiot always wins.

edit on 12-6-2012 by hoochymama because: (no reason given)

But can you physically feel Oxygen? (Called lungs)
Can you store oxygen in tanks?

Last time i checked oxygen is not faith based...



Who's the idiot?

Originally posted by borntowatch
As a Christian I question my faith the Bible other Christians constantly.
Christianity is not exclusive, we live in the world watch TV and listen to Dawkinses and Hitchenses all the time.
You surmise that we as a faith are insular, you also surmise that we dont understand the ridiculousness of the Creator taking human form to save our wretched skins.
We do.
Faith is not something we choose, God gives us faith and that faith is evidence of the truth, seriously do you think I would accept that story if I didnt have God given faith?

Humanity can not change what God has given us.

Cactus thinks to highly of himself, humanity has very few answers when it comes to the crunch. None more relevant than life and death. Death is a new beginning, Cactus offers nothing and people are sick and tired of nothing.
Hope is important and atheism offers nothing at all, no hope as well as nothing.

edit on 13-6-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

How did god give you faith? I'm willing to bet it was the bible right. Well do you really know who wrote the bible?

You probably don't. So it wasn't god or bible, so who then, who gave you this blind faith, hope. I'll tell you :


Delusional people that have similar paths as yourself. You connected with those people and those people connected with others. You see its all about #'s. You wouldn't have joined some christian sect that had one member. You had a void, a void of connection with others. Basically you are lonely and the older you get, the closer you get to death , one must be with as many people when heaven is approaching; add a little dogma and you are set for the rest of your life.


Enjoy

TextOk first problem is that you mixed Abiogenesis(theory) with Evolution(fact). 2nd is, instead of joining forces as one and saying "A God"(what a smart religious person would have done), you divided yourself and "said" "Christianity has all the answers".

reply to post by FlyersFan


How can you STILL not understand the scientific definitions of the terms 'fact' and 'theory'? Is it wilful ignorance or intellectual dishonesty?

Let's do a basic scientific literacy test: do you think somehiw scientific theories become scientific facts?

reply to post by FlyersFan


You ARE lying, it's evident throughout this thread where you STILL call scientific throes wild guesses when it's been pointed out to you numerous times that this is false. Doesn't the bible have things to say about those who bear false witness?

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

You ARE lying, it's evident throughout this thread where you STILL call scientific throes wild guesses when it's been pointed out to you numerous times that this is false. Doesn't the bible have things to say about those who bear false witness?

Yes the bible does and God in His infinite wisdom has made sure that judgement of man will start at the house of God starting with the priests at the highest levels on down to the lowly atheists and paritioners .

I am an atheist. About two years ago, me and my ex were having a debate about evolution vs creation. I was very surprised that she didn't understand the basic concept of what evolution was, and as I explained it to her, she began to question what she's believed in all her life. Last time I talked to her (around 6 months ago), she was still unsure what she believed in, having come from a born-again christian family.

reply to post by Julio


Seems you do not know the basic concept of what evolution is either for if you believe it you have more faith in your religious belief then she does.

Also to take the religious belief that there is no God you must know everything, but I would bet you do not know half of everything or have been everywhere and since you have not and do not God could exist in the unknown regions of your knowledge.

It is sad that she does not go to a church or educate herself in the creation as if you are a self thinker you should really I mean really look into the creation science aspect of belief in God, it does not use junk science as we are under the microscope more the the fairy tale evolution side of the religion.

Dear Heavenly Father may you reaffirm this believer and show this unbeliever the evidence of a creation through supernatural order, and how evolution is a lie used to deceive people into not believing in Jesus as the creator who died upon the cross and rose again for our sins so that we may have an everlasting life in heaven with you.

IN Jesus Name I pray amen.

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

You ARE lying, it's evident throughout this thread where you STILL call scientific throes wild guesses when it's been pointed out to you numerous times that this is false. Doesn't the bible have things to say about those who bear false witness?

First. no atheist can prove a beginning to the universe from nothing. They can theorize and make wild guesses, but there is no proof of something being able to come from nothing.

Second, if you go for the infinite regress theory you have to be able to prove an actual infinite which not even the greatest mathematical minds say is possible to prove. In actual fact, the mathematical school of intuition DENIES actual infinite.

Yes, on some levels there is an evolutionary process, this however, does nothing to prove or disprove the existance of any Creator...

all the atheist can do is theorize and state that someday science will have the ability to find the answers to everything....and ALL atheists worth their weight fully admit that science does not currently have these answers, or even the current ability to find them. (they are simply placing it upon faith that someday will be born very intelligent people who will come up with these answers)

Originally posted by john_bmth
How can you STILL not understand the scientific definitions of the terms 'fact' and 'theory'?

I understand them just fine. Obviously you don't.

Is it wilful ignorance or intellectual dishonesty?

Ah yes .. more off topic insults from you. Deflection.
And yet the creationists that you hate on are so much more civil when you attack their beliefs.
Perhaps you could learn something from them about proper behavior.

do you think somehiw scientific theories become scientific facts?

Theories become recognized as absolute fact IF information comes forward to induce the change.
Evolution and Creationism do not have the absolute facts that make them change from
theory to fact.


It's amazing how worked up these evolutionists get when confronted with the FACT that
their religion is just a theory ... that it hasn't been proven a fact. Someday it might be.
But as of today .. no. And yet they whine about the behavior of creationists ..

Not that it matters .. as I've said .. I"m not a creationist and I'm not an evolutionist.
I simply don't care. We are here. We live a short while. We die. Whatever.
I have no horse in this race.

Originally posted by john_bmth
You ARE lying, it's evident throughout this thread where you STILL call scientific throes wild guesses

Stop right there. YOU are the liar. I have NEVER NEVER NEVER said that scientific theories are 'wild guesses'. Never. I am damn sick of you continually calling me a liar and claiming I said things that I didn't. I am alerting the moderators on your behavior.

Doesn't the bible have things to say about those who bear false witness?

I don't give a hoot what the bible says. In addition to telling lies about what people say -
you assume too much about what people believe. Knock it off.


Again ... on topic ... reality ...
It's all theory. Evolution and creationism. Neither has been proven as an absolute fact.
The irrational behavior of some evolutionists on this thread really don't do their cause or
their religion any favors.

reply to post by FlyersFan

See? You're doing that "lying" thing again. Either that or you're being intellectually dishonest or just straight up wilfully ignorant. Scientific theories do NOT become scientific facts. Prove me wrong with sources. Evolution is both a scientific theory AND a scientific fact.

Let's see how long it takes for you to start spreading your lies regarding scientific theories being guesses and that they somehow become scientific facts.

My step father, who is my dad AFAIAC possessed fairly conventional Christian religious views. I was a dyed-in-the-wool heathen non-believer. We used to argue back and forth, and -- over the years -- we have had some fantastic discussions. 20 years on, dad now questions the church and religious authority, and I question the notion that there is no god or maker.

So you see, sometimes people do change.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Now you're doing it. A scientific theory is NOT some wild guess. Feel free to prove me wrong (you won't). Stop spreading your ignorance and educate yourself before attacking science you know nothing about.