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Have you ever made someone question their beliefs via religious debate?

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posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by RSF77
What happens when you consider religion and evolution equal concepts?

Which one has more evidence for truth?
What is truth?
Truth is what?




posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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I personally don't care what people believe or what Religion they have faith in. WHAT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH...is when someone knocks on my door and starts EVANGELIZING! It REALLY PISSES ME OFF! I try to stay away from another's belief system....except if it is a debate on a Board which is the proper venue for speaking about ones concepts and beliefs.

Did you ever notice that people of a Religion that supposedly preaches Non-Violence, Turn the other Cheek and Understanding and Compassion...become the exact opposite of this when confronted by a person who does not wish to hear their BULL?

These people have NO RESPECT FOR ANOTHER'S BELIEFS....yet they cry unfair when a person on a board like this presents LOGIC and PROOF that discredits some of what they believe.

They become HATE! Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
I personally don't care what people believe or what Religion they have faith in. WHAT I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH...is when someone knocks on my door and starts EVANGELIZING! It REALLY PISSES ME OFF! I try to stay away from another's belief system....except if it is a debate on a Board which is the proper venue for speaking about ones concepts and beliefs.

Did you ever notice that people of a Religion that supposedly preaches Non-Violence, Turn the other Cheek and Understanding and Compassion...become the exact opposite of this when confronted by a person who does not wish to hear their BULL?

These people have NO RESPECT FOR ANOTHER'S BELIEFS....yet they cry unfair when a person on a board like this presents LOGIC and PROOF that discredits some of what they believe.

They become HATE! Split Infinity
Yeah, I feel ya.
They start HITTING THE CAPS LOCK AND EVERYTHING.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by Azadok2day
 





One must remember Satan is always trying to destroy Gods work and this is why he and His fallen angels started all these religions .



I'm glad you said "all". I agree



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by Confusion42

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Evolution doesn't teach that everything comes from some amoeba. Why are so quick to disregard the theory, when you haven't even bothered to find this out? Ultimately, diversity rises from imprecise replication of DNA (observed fact), and subsequent selection by nature (fact), repeated over and over (fact). This is the core of the modern theory of evolution. The first point was never part of Darwin's theory, and thus us learned find it cute when laymen call us Darwinists.
edit on 13-6-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)


Oops.... evolution teaches we were seeded by aliens or we were dust and water and lightning strikes, how silly of me to forget, #chortle* chortle#
Tell me that is not a religious indoctrination fairy tail.

Facts are they? Well show me the evidence or am I spose to believe you like I am a believer of religious indoctrinations provided by scientists. I dont believe you. Not one bit. Evidence not assumptions.

As for Darwin he didnt know what DNA was so of course he didnt know what he was talking about. thats what makes evolution so stupid, Darwin though we were made up of water.
The truth is DNA needs 1, a sender 2, a code and 3, a receiver. If the DNA message is corrupted (imprecise replication of DNA) between the sender and the receiver then the receiver will not understand the code.
Evolution can not explain that simple sender code receiver relationship. Your argument is futile and scientists still cant explain it.
So if scientists cant explain it how can you. Foolish argument
edit on 13-6-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)


"borntowatch", you are infected with the only known communicable disease known to man.

rhinoceroes gives you the meaning (DEFINITION), you know, the SCIENTIFIC DEFINITION OF EVOLUTION, and your disease ignores this, and you (borntowatch) refers back to the brainwashed lie filled crap you have contracted (the disease).

Your response right here, sums up the whole creationist / evolution debate.

Evolutionist provides the scientific definition of evolution.

Creationist ignores it, says his religious lie filled "definition" is correct.

Let's see if this communicable disease can be fixed. It's not that hard.

Start with Evidence of common descent

Than brush up on your Logic

Read about the Urey experiment and recent studies.

Let's see if you even have the balls to dare read something your preacher doesn't know about? Are you afraid? Lazy? Or just so brainwashed you think you will go to hell for reading facts?


Dont have Kittens.
Urey never published his findings, they are still secrets, they are silly and only ignorant straw clutching atheists refer to them, its akin to the piltdown man lie
evolutionsecrets.info...

So far no evidence

Wikipedia err uhm no thanks unsupported drivel only high school kids use. Get a little supportable evidence I havnt the time for hissy fitting kids


You have nothing, I dont want definitions I want evidence

yes I am infected, I am infected with Jesus.

I use to be an solid evolutionist and an atheist of sorts. Go figure, I know more about evolution than you know about scratching your.....



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by addygrace
 

I think hitting a cap lock is a bit less violent than some who would SHOOT A DOCTOR AT A PLANNED PARENTHOOD CLINIC! Seriously...people who profess their love of GOD or if Christian...JESUS...seem to be much further away from any GOD than a person who is either an Atheist or Agnostic who cares about people enough to respect their rights or beliefs.

I help run several of my Families Companies...and we have a rule that religion is not something that is allowed to be EVANGELIZED in the work place. I could care less if a group of people on their lunch break want to say a Prayer before they eat. I also have no problem with anyone putting up a small token of their Religious Holiday on their desk. But we will not tolerate handing out of Religious Magazines or Admonishing another employee for their beliefs or non-beliefs. For this a person gets a warning...then termination.

I have very good relations with people of all Races and Creeds...it is when a person is hired to do a JOB and they use their work time on trying to convert another employee.

In the Music Business...there are many people who t one time hit ROCK BOTTOM and then only at that time do they turn to GOD...and they become so dedicated to this that they actually will confront me Violently if a Written Warning is given to them. I work with crews who set up lighting and sound and I always take the time to see if they are OK as if we are on a Long Tour as a Used to play over 100 shows a year....pressures can mount and knowing that the Bands Front Man cares enough to see if anyone is having issues will get a crew to respect you and work hard. We had one guy who we let go because of his substance abuse...we gave him another shot but this time he went Born Again. I told him...I didn't care what he did with his off time but he was NOT going to bother people at a Rock Concert with handing out papers and advice.

He got into a shouting match with me and I am Physically Trained in my Third Job as well as being in top shape...He swung at me. He missed. He swung at me again. I placed him in a hold until several members of the crew could get there and grab him and escort him out of the venue...all the while He screamed we were going to HELL!

In my Third JOB I am there for the purpose of Solving Problems and the people who are the BIGGEST PROBLEM MAKERS...are the MOST RELIGIOUS! So excuse my cap locks. I at least respect a persons rights but I will not be their sheep. Split Infinity



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by jiggerj

Yes, and that person suddenly saw the ridiculousness in her religious beliefs. She then said something that, in my opinion, is how most religious people feel.

I said to her, "Do you honestly believe that there is an ALLL-knowing, ALLLL-powerful, inVISible being, who created the WHOLE universe, and who lives in another dimension called heavennnnn?"

Her eyes went wide, as though a band-aid had been suddenly ripped from her brain. She then said, "But I HAVE to believe." With that statement comes the unspoken words: "even though I know it isn't true."


edit on 6/13/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


And you believe from nothing we get the full table of elements, light and heat then life and death and its meaningless. You and your argument is less than childish.


you honestly believe that there is an Noooo-knowing, Nooo-power, Nooo being, NOOOO nothing that created the WHOLE universe, and who doesnt exist in any dimension called anything?"
Facepalm.
Your words are just silly.


Wow! Talk about being brainwashed. You can't even see logic when it's right in your face. And then, you can't even see the good sense in your own statement. Your words are right on the money.

How about Pele, goddess of volcanoes? Prove to us that she doesn't exist. Of course, she doesn't exist, but you can't prove it. Kinda ridiculous to believe in her though, eh?


Wow! Talk about being brainwashed. You can't even see logic when it's right in your face. The down side is there is no good sense in your comments.
The ridiculous nature of volcano ladys and spaghetti monsters is just a grasp

Christians have Jesus, 2000 years ago it was Jesus who left us His Holy Spirit.
Volcano ladys, whats in your head, thats simpleton talk, irrelevant deflection, fake structure to hide your inadequate argument.
2000 years ago Christ walked, nobody with a gram of intelligence denies that statement, you may I suspect.
Gamaliel stated if Christ is a fake this issue will go away, persecutions and millions of martyrs latter, here we stand. Christianity blossoms in India Africa and China. The church awakens.

Volcano lady, how silly.




Unfortunately, when it comes to being brainwashed, on a scale from one to ten, you're a ten and totally lost to us. Go ahead and pray to your murderous god. I won't try and stop you.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 03:06 AM
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Originally posted by knightwhosaysnih

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Julio
This goes both ways;

In an evolution vs creation debate, have you managed to open the other person's mind?
Or have you ever converted (hate that word) someone?



Yes, and that person suddenly saw the ridiculousness in her religious beliefs. She then said something that, in my opinion, is how most religious people feel.

I said to her, "Do you honestly believe that there is an ALLL-knowing, ALLLL-powerful, inVISible being, who created the WHOLE universe, and who lives in another dimension called heavennnnn?"

Her eyes went wide, as though a band-aid had been suddenly ripped from her brain. She then said, "But I HAVE to believe." With that statement comes the unspoken words: "even though I know it isn't true."


edit on 6/13/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)


I used to think like that.. But it didn't take me long to realise that everything we are currently experiencing is not a product of chance. There are waaaay too many "coincidences" in this world for it all to just be exactly that, a coincidence. I have since come to the realisation that science and religion don't have to be separate. That, and also the interpretations given by any one religion is never going to be 100% correct. It takes a mixture of almost every religion and science to get anywhere close to realising what is actually going on down here. Not saying that I have figured out life or anything like that, but things start to make a lot more sense when you open your mind up to new things and other religions, spirituality and everything in between.

I don't know if there is something all knowing, all powerful and "created" the universe.. but I definitely like to think there is something else after we die than just our corpse laying in the ground.

Do you honestly believe that we are all born once, some of us only a getting a few years, minutes, or seconds to live before we die of complications from child birth or something else, and that's it? Whatever energy we have that drives our human body just disappears when we die to an unknown void? Noone down here could ever really completely understand what is going on or the process of everything, but I can tell that it sure as hell ain't as black and white as: We get one shot to live our life, and when we die nothing further happens and our own individual consciousness ceases to exist. I'm not putting words in your mouth and saying that is what you believe, but that tends to be the general concensus of the typical athiest.


Very honest post.


The best any of us can do is look at how many times a certain condition exists in this universe, and then compare it to what the religious believe. When considering the afterlife it is believed that our energy (whatever kind of energy that may be) lives on. Yet, when we look at all the things that run on energy in this realm we find that: When computers die we know that it is not running somewhere else. No one is watching your television in another dimension after you've thrown it in the trash. When a sun goes supernova it is not shining in heaven. There is just nothing in this realm that offers even the slightest suggestion of an afterlife.


...the interpretations given by any one religion is never going to be 100% correct.


Why is that? If a biblical god exists, don't you think he'd want us to have the straight facts? Where is the profit in having many conflicting religions? How can we simple-minded humans possibly know which religion is right and which is wrong?


I used to think like that.. But it didn't take me long to realise that everything we are currently experiencing is not a product of chance.


I have come close to believing this also. www.abovetopsecret.com... "Atheist with a huge premise for the existence of a god."

But if this existence is not a product of chance, then why try to do anything? Why get out of bed in the morning? Why work? Why love? If everything is predestined, then this existence is going to run its deliberate course with or without our participation.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj
The best any of us can do is look at how many times a certain condition exists in this universe, and then compare it to what the religious believe. When considering the afterlife it is believed that our energy (whatever kind of energy that may be) lives on. Yet, when we look at all the things that run on energy in this realm we find that: When computers die we know that it is not running somewhere else. No one is watching your television in another dimension after you've thrown it in the trash. When a sun goes supernova it is not shining in heaven. There is just nothing in this realm that offers even the slightest suggestion of an afterlife.
How do you explain people having near death experiences?
Why are human's so intelligent?
Why do we know things about the Universe that is trillion's of light years away?
Why do we know how the origin of the universe expanded?
Why do we contemplate the afterlife?
Why are we in a perfect position in the Universe, to test the sciences?
Why did Jesus come up with the most profound moral rule, when he said to give your other cheek if someone strikes your cheek?

Ask Jesus if he is the truth.
edit on 14-6-2012 by addygrace because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by Julio
 


I started something as simply a reply but it grew into something larger so I started a new post. I did not want to get this post to far off topic. But in a general way it was created to answer the question, does God talk to us?

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 14-6-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by Julio
 


All the time.

Never do I convert people or what not, that's not my job. I can only share what I have witnessed, know and believe(in that order). Often mistaken for a Muslim I have had good conversations with Muslims and they have reflected upon their religious beliefs after we spoke and they questioned it. As well as with Christians...they also reflected upon their beliefs.


Slightly unrelated, but what does is mean when people say they have a relationship with God? People will sometimes say they talk to God and God talks back. Please, no half-assed "it's an experience you can't explain, man", just give me the straight facts. I am legitimately curious, and I won't make fun of you. I get very frustrated when I ask a religious person what seems to be a simple question and they quote something out of the big B or speak in riddles.


That's because it's very weird to explain something that seems to come naturally and something that we have no control over. As I understand it, most people interpret signs as messages from God, ie, they ask for something - something else happens, and they interpret it as a message - or they ask for something, that something happens and is interpreted as an answer. This seems questionable and a rational person should question it, but some things cannot be questioned when you experience it. There are devout Christians for over 50 years who ask me how to have a better relationship with God and see Him more as a father - and I'm relatively young...don't ask me why they ask, can't explain even if I wanted to. It's weird and I hope this wasn't your usual bible-thumping/riddle answer.

One thing you can always do is pray for wisdom. (What I've been taught) Give it a try if you don't find it ridiculous.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 04:26 AM
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Absolutely have.

My wife was a Christian when I met her and now hates religion more than I.

I have another friend who was Christian but has ditched organized religion and is looking to a weird mix of mysticism and science for the answers to life (weird but better than lame brain religion). Have even swayed her on her anti-abortionist stance but not as massively.

That said I don't seek to change peoples belief but challenge and broaden their way of thinking. And the other key factor is that I don't/cant argue with morons - so the people I debate with already have half a brain.



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 04:43 AM
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Ive had many discussions with people of many religions mainly Christians or Protestants also J .W during all these talks one thing has been common they instigated it and when I ask simple questions they get annoyed on various degrees, some whom are more intelligent or think they are make up some mumbo jumbo and try to fob it off as the word of god and the others who I considered less educated simply resort to "I don't know but the bible told me so" which in truth is fine and honest enough for me.


I considered myself an atheist however later in life I discovered this isn't 100% true, the roots of my belief were the basic understanding of our human nature of manipulation and control and religion in my opinion and many others is one of the main structural pillars of this control mechanism that embraces our world like an MK ULTRA program on steroids.

People have been indoctrinated on a global scale through politics, religion ,race, sex and most importantly class and when we see or feel like this its hard to believe in a Creator / God.

BUT I DO! even though I don't have religion HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE YOU MAY BE ASKING.

Well let me tell you about Deism


Deism (i/ˈdiː.ɪzəm/[1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/) is a religious philosophy which holds that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is the product of an intelligent creator. According to deists, the creator never intervenes in human affairs or suspends the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending instead to assert that a god (or "the Supreme Architect") does not alter the universe by intervening in it. This idea is also known as the clockwork universe theory, in which a god designs and builds the universe, but steps aside to let it run on its own. Two main forms of deism currently exist: classical deism and modern deism.


To me we are special and religion has a lot of truth but its so commercial and mainstream its got to be questioned.

For example the church could oppose war and millions would follow soldiers and all to peaceful horizons also the money and poverty surly the church has influence and something to lose if these issues were ever solved.

We are all part of something bigger than ourselves be that God or the Universe.

I some times think of the irony in American/Western culture whom a lot follow the belief that Christ shall return, but continue to bomb and destroy along with my country and may others the region were he would know best and more likely reside if ever he returned.

Then your major presidential front runners all barring Ron Paul contradict their belief in PRO LIFE debates by spewing out hatred for life as long as its born in Middle East or Africa all the while playing the Hollywood hero in the fight against abortion.


edit on 14-6-2012 by GreatScot because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-6-2012 by GreatScot because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Julio
 


Normal people question their beliefs constantly its not the belief specifics as much as the existence of a creator, simply put it cant be proven that's why its questionable.

Feeling the grace of the god is a matter of a mind set once you're in the state of believing, there is very little that you can do in the face of belief i am not sure that arguments can ever change someone belief unless he is willing to.

but on the other hand simply because a creator cant be proven it doesn't mean one should stop searching for an evidence of his existence
.
edit on 14-6-2012 by SerialKiller because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by jiggerj

Unfortunately, when it comes to being brainwashed, on a scale from one to ten, you're a ten and totally lost to us. Go ahead and pray to your murderous god. I won't try and stop you.


Well thanks for your authorisation I feel better now _javascript:icon('
')

You may call me brainwashed but by my reckoning you seem to be the one who thinks he is above everyone else, on a scale of one to ten I wonder if you rate at all?



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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yep, yesterday infact. i was talking to a co-worker that is christian (im an athiest), and we were discussing the existance of god. i said that thers 3 possabilities:
1. he doesnt exist
2. he exists as a creator but is not all powerfull like many beleive and is most probably a higher being from another world/ dimension.
3. he exists, is all powerful and just doesnt care what happens to us.

then he went on to say that he beleives god exists but isnt all powerfull, so i explained that this means he isnt a god because being a god implys that he has control over everything blah blah blah (usual arguments). at the end of the discussion he admitted that god could be an alien and spent the rest of the day in a bad mood



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 06:06 AM
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How do you explain people having near death experiences?
Why are human's so intelligent?
Why do we know things about the Universe that is trillion's of light years away?
Why do we know how the origin of the universe expanded?
Why do we contemplate the afterlife?
Why are we in a perfect position in the Universe, to test the sciences?
Why did Jesus come up with the most profound moral rule, when he said to give your other cheek if someone strikes your cheek?

Ask Jesus if he is the truth.
edit on 14-6-2012 by addygrace because: (no reason given)


How do you explain people having near death experiences?
Oxygen depletion in the brain.
-------------------------------------------------
Why are human's so intelligent?
How did Koko the gorilla learn sign language?
------------------------------------------------
Why do we know things about the Universe that is trillion's of light years away?
Scientific research. Math.
----------------------------------------------
Why do we know how the origin of the universe expanded?
Hubble
------------------------------------------------
Why do we contemplate the afterlife?
Why do we contemplate invisibility, gaining super powers, what it would be like to go back and change history...?
------------------------------------------------
Why are we in a perfect position in the Universe, to test the sciences?
Switch places with Mars and the intelligent life that evolves on that planet would be asking the same question.
-------------------------------------------------
Why did Jesus come up with the most profound moral rule, when he said to give your other cheek if someone strikes your cheek?
I dunno, because he wanted the meek to be annihilated? FIGHT BACK!
-----------------------------------------------
Ask Jesus if he is the truth.
Can't ask him. I hear his body rose up in the air. I gather he kept on going and is now floating dead in outer-space.
edit on 6/14/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/14/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 06:49 AM
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reply to post by Julio
 


Watch this entire video and then please tell me your honest opinion. This goes to anyone who has a belief about evolution vs creation.. When I first saw this video my self I was shocked at the truth..well enjoy..

youtu.be...
edit on 14-6-2012 by HumanitiesLastHope because: fixed the link



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Evolution doesn't teach that everything comes from some amoeba. Why are so quick to disregard the theory, when you haven't even bothered to find this out? Ultimately, diversity rises from imprecise replication of DNA (observed fact), and subsequent selection by nature (fact), repeated over and over (fact). This is the core of the modern theory of evolution. The first point was never part of Darwin's theory, and thus us learned find it cute when laymen call us Darwinists.
edit on 13-6-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)


Oops.... evolution teaches we were seeded by aliens or we were dust and water and lightning strikes, how silly of me to forget, #chortle* chortle#

No it doesn't. Evolution doesn't address the origin of life in any way. Anyway, if you think the scenarios for the origin of life you mentioned are ridiculous, here's an even funnier one: a beard God entity creates man from dirt and woman from his rib, and then makes it seem as if they evolved naturally.



Facts are they? Well show me the evidence or am I spose to believe you like I am a believer of religious indoctrinations provided by scientists. I dont believe you. Not one bit. Evidence not assumptions.

Which fact you disagree with? That DNA replication is imprecise? That nature selects? That this process is repeated over and over? Here is a ton of evidence for evolution. You don't have to believe me, but just go look for yourself. If it's BS, then all you need to do is to provide evidence on the contrary.



As for Darwin he didnt know what DNA was so of course he didnt know what he was talking about. thats what makes evolution so stupid, Darwin though we were made up of water.

At best, it makes Darwin's original theory incomplete. Good thing we've come far from that in the following +150 years.



The truth is DNA needs 1, a sender 2, a code and 3, a receiver. If the DNA message is corrupted (imprecise replication of DNA) between the sender and the receiver then the receiver will not understand the code.

These are just terms you have made up. You obviously don't have the slightest clue about biology.



Evolution can not explain that simple sender code receiver relationship

The what now?



Your argument is futile and scientists still cant explain it.

The problem here is that you come up with imaginary problems. You obviously don't understand a thing about biology. Your mind was made up for you by your abusive parents and religious community. I doubt there's any hope for you. It's very sad. I hope some day indoctrination of children with religious lies will be recognized as severe child abuse (which it is), and that children can grow up and make their own minds.
edit on 14-6-2012 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2012 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by Julio
 


Obviously it always does why would someone who is religious get 'pissed off' by having a debate about it... Because they know it's riddled with holes like a piece of swiss cheese. They may never admit it but they think about it all the time.




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