The Fastest Growing Religion In America Is Islam

reply to post by beezzer


The Charter of Privileges, ascribed to Muhammad (although I myself am skeptical of this) but nevertheless followed and used as a basis for the treatment of Christians (used as a basis does not necessarily mean that Christians weren't oppressed).

"This is a message from [Prophet] Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.

Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.

No compulsion [in religion] is to be on them.

Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.

No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.

Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.

The Muslims are to fight for them.

If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.

Their Churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

No one of the nation (of Muslims) is to disobey this covenant till the Last Day (end of the world)."

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Another reason is the increased media on Islam after 9.11. Most people never knew about it until 9.11 and then they did their own investigations they realized that it actually is a religion of peace and not what the MSM tells us.

A good point - I personally don't believe Islam, Christianity or Judaism represents any form of absolute truth - I think what makes Americans who are interested convert is the fact they they're painted such a bad and twisted picture - that when they face the reality they're overwhelmed - I think this in many ways passes for many of them as a spiritual experience - which then moves onto a conversion - obviously those Americans who do research in Islam are of a certain type (more open-minded and wishing to learn as opposed to the self-censoring ones).

American Christians are already more biased to believe Islam in their psyches because the two religions are so similar. Islam also addresses all the, let's say 'difficult' parts of Christianity, so next to Christianity, Islam looks an awful lot more 'logical' (I personally believe this was directly engineered by the founder of Islam).

However I do not think it's reason enough for people to convert to it, they should in all honesty spent an equal amount of time researching various philosophies and ways of life - I believe the majority of them are biased and have simply transferred from a Christian background to a Muslim one.

reply to post by Jameela
I don't hate.

I just don't TRUST.

I doubt.

I question.

I don't follow PC conventions. Living in Europe and elsewhere, I've met many muslims who were wonderful people. I've also met some who would have killed me if they could have.

I don't hate faith.

I just am opposed to ANY faith that trys to overtake another.

And yes, *sigh* christianity yadda-yadda as well.

reply to post by beezzer


Religion matters not, it is who a person is inside, and what they stand for. There is good and bad in everything, I am opposed to the wahabi and their extremism, as you I am certain have noted. But also I am against anything that is unjust... and this does not matter, I will always raise my voice against injustice in any form..

Your constitution is beautiful, and there is nothing in it which is opposite to Islam. Muslims who are not extremist want to live in peace with everyone. We just want to live, we want a decent life, and not to be the slave of any man.

We do not want to take over anything, and I think you allow fear to overwhelm you.....Yes, there are Muslim who would kill you in this world, but at the same time, those who would kill you, if they had a choice they would kill me first....We have the same enemies...Yet your government would rather befriend those enemies, than to befriend someone who is just in their agreements, and good in their soul. Maybe not perfect, but good nonetheless.

reply to post by OliverNorthsCat


Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

Ishaq:326 "Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth."
prophetofdoom.net...

See? We can go back and forth. There is a duality with islam. Show me all the hearts and flowers you want, I'll just respond with the dark side.

Originally posted by Jameela
reply to post by beezzer

 

Religion matters not, it is who a person is inside, and what they stand for. There is good and bad in everything, I am opposed to the wahabi and their extremism, as you I am certain have noted. But also I am against anything that is unjust... and this does not matter, I will always raise my voice against injustice in any form..

Your constitution is beautiful, and there is nothing in it which is opposite to Islam. Muslims who are not extremist want to live in peace with everyone. We just want to live, we want a decent life, and not to be the slave of any man.

We do not want to take over anything, and I think you allow fear to overwhelm you.....Yes, there are Muslim who would kill you in this world, but at the same time, those who would kill you, if they had a choice they would kill me first....We have the same enemies...

As I've said in the past, your rights end where mine begin. I could care less if it's islam, druids, or christianity.

What I DO CARE ABOUT, is the false fronts. The subversion of existing laws. The loss of individual rights and freedoms just so a religion is pacified.

Perhaps a better comparison would be the percentage increase in Christianity vs the percentage increase in Islam...I also heard Mormonism is on the rise as well.

reply to post by beezzer


MashaAllah, beautiful.. although I prefer the Arabic because only the Arabic is the Holy Quran, and the words of Allah, anything else is only a translation of the meaning, and it is imperfect and not the Quran.

Allow me to explain, the Holy Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years. And every ayah was revealed at a certain time, and for a certain situation...Some of these ayah were written when the Muslim Ummah under the Holy Prophet (saw) were at war with various parties. These are all different stages of wars that you see these ayah were revealed.

At the same time that we know the historical meaning, we also know the meaning is written for all time. All praise be to God. Therefore, what we see in this is very simple, during a time of war (depending upon what is happening at that time) we must fight, defend, and yes when it is war we also kill.

But there is a time for all things, and we have to also match these ayah with other ayah in the Holy Quran, because one ayah does not make void any other. So if someone is peaceful with us, we must be peaceful with them, we cannot just murder someone this is expressly forbidden, we can only fight in self defense... to defend our homes, our land, our families. We cannot make wars of aggression.

But again, these ayah are also for all time, so it means when we must fight, in situations where we are being attacked and there is no choice but to defend our self or die... then we must start fighting and not stop until we have either conquered or ourselves become the conquered.

You saw the truth of these ayah when Saddam Hussain attacked the Shia of Iran. Iran defended herself, she did not make any war of aggression, but they fought hard. It was a just war, because they were having to defend themselves.

Can you understand these ayah now? They do not mean just go and kill, because killing of someone who is not attacking you is forbidden. But they do mean when it is time to fight, then we fight like nothing you have ever seen...

Is this not good advices from our God? Do you not have the same beliefs?

reply to post by Jameela

"These are the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of Allah, which We recite to you (O Muhammad SAW) with truth. Then in which speech after Allah and His Ayat will they believe?" (Surat Al-Jathiya 45:6, Mohsin Khan translation of the Qur'an)

en.wikipedia.org...

What I see is a justification for ANY action that is done.

"Then in which speech after Allah and His Ayat will they believe?"

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Jameela

 

"These are the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of Allah, which We recite to you (O Muhammad SAW) with truth. Then in which speech after Allah and His Ayat will they believe?" (Surat Al-Jathiya 45:6, Mohsin Khan translation of the Qur'an)

What I see is a justification for ANY action tht is done.

"Then in which speech after Allah and His Ayat will they believe?"

Do Christians believe in only one sentence of their bible without making sure what they are doing matches every other verse?

When you take one or two sentences only, take them out of context, breaking the laws of Allah in 20 other ayah... then you have committed a sin against your God, and done an unjust thing! You must look to EVERY ayah to know if your actions are just, and within the teachings of Islam.

Any Christian who looks to only a few sentences to justify their position while ignoring the rest are extremists who have twisted the religion of Christianity. Any one who calls them self Muslim and takes only a few sentences to justify their position while ignoring the rest are extremists who have twisted the religion of Islam. Same for Judaism also.

I am not saying there are not people who will twist the religion to suit themselves, but this is found in all three at times. We must look examine every ayah each in our respective Books, to know if our actions are good.

I showed you true exegesis of the Quran, and the one that 99% of all Muslims regardless of sect believe in. That one percent are extremist who are the enemies to Islam and Allah.

Originally posted by Jameela
reply to post by beezzer

 

Allow me to explain, the Holy Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years. And every ayah was revealed at a certain time, and for a certain situation...Some of these ayah were written when the Muslim Ummah under the Holy Prophet (saw) were at war with various parties. These are all different stages of wars that you see these ayah were revealed.

... ...

But again, these ayah are also for all time, so it means when we must fight, in situations where we are being attacked and there is no choice but to defend our self or die... then we must start fighting and not stop until we have either conquered or ourselves become the conquered.

For me, this is probably the second biggest problem of Islam, the concept of abrogation of verses.

You saw the truth of these ayah when Saddam Hussain attacked the Shia of Iran. Iran defended herself, she did not make any war of aggression, but they fought hard. It was a just war, because they were having to defend themselves.

I would definitely say Iran is probably the only uncompromisingly practising Muslim country around, and has been the only one around for a long time, as a non-Muslim I bear no guilt in saying the others esp. the Gulf states are in a terrible state of Nafiq.

Time and time again, Iran has put it's hand out in friendship towards the Arab Muslim states and time and again their Munafiq governments have slapped it away. And that is a decision that IS supported by a majority of Arab subjects.

I think we can safely say, the majority of Arabs suffer, like the majority of Americans - in a position where they are both hypocritical in practising their ideology and suicidally stupid in their foreign policies!

reply to post by Jameela

You're validating my point.

EVERY religion has used, are using, will use what apects of their faith speak to them.

They will lie, cheat, steal, blaspheme, in order to promote whatever aspect of their religion suits them.

Again, feel free to believe whatever diety you want.

But I will fight tooth and nail any freedoms lost due to ANY religious tenents.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Jameela

 

You're validating my point.

EVERY religion has used, are using, will use what apects of their faith speak to them.

They will lie, cheat, steal, blaspheme, in order to promote whatever aspect of their religion suits them.

Again, feel free to believe whatever diety you want.

But I will fight tooth and nail any freedoms lost due to ANY religious tenents.

So fight! But fight in your own country... NO one is infringing upon YOUR constitutional rights... they are only practicing theirs...

.If you think they have overstepped the constitution then fight in the courts, fight wherever, but allow them the right to freely practice their own faith. It is written into the constitution.

But our countries are point blank our business, it is not your business to be in even one of our countries!

Originally posted by Jameela
care to elaborate on the last time ANY ME nation (we can include Iran and North Africa in this too) attacked ANY western nation?

Funny. You insist on it being 'nation to nation' when in fact the problem is the violence in the religion of Islam which crosses the borders and spews forth across the world. Don't try to hide behind political borders. Learn what PROXY means ...

Saudi Arabia is in a proxy war with Iran in Syria.
Iran in cyber war against USA - launching from Central America.
Hamas and Hezbollah launch daily rocket attacks against the soverign country of Israel.
Middle Eastern and (Muslim) Persian countries sponsoring international terrorism.
GOON WARFARE in South America sponsored by Middle Eastern and Persian Countries.
Saudi Arabia sponsors the Wahabbis who run terrorist operations around the world.
etc etc etc

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

When I say, however, that islam is the "borg" of religions, it illuminates the thoughts in your post.

Many civilisations have stepped away.

But some haven't. Islam is assimilate or die. When they ask that you be given the choice of "enlightenment" they really don't give voice to the other option.

Many religions have evolved. Islam, sadly, has not.

The Crusades were fought several hundred years ago. To westerners, that's water under the bridge.

To many muslims, it was "yesterday".

Beezer you were singling out Islam plain and simple, that's why I referred to you as bigoted because you were being completely unfair. You should have quit a few posts back, but it looks now you've dredged it back up - and it's going to blow up in your face (no pun intended!)

reply to post by OliverNorthsCat


No. I stand by my posts. Islam does assimilate.

Do I have to go back and quote the Koran AGAIN?

reply to post by beezzer


Well unfortunately your earlier posts are now contradictory to the last few ones you made.

Take your pick Beezer, is Islam the 'odd man out' and some kind of antithesis to democracy and secularism compared to other religions or is it not?

reply to post by beezzer


I already explained the Quran...

and as you just said, Islam does assimilate.... so you are giving us this... there is nothing to oppose, except what is in your heart that you refuse to let go of...

And I assume this discussion is over between us therefore I will say it was good discussing with you and I respect your opinion. I am certain we will speak again someday. We keep meeting here anyway.

Good discussion

take care

reply to post by beezzer


Do I have to go and pick out quotes out of the constitution:

"Bear arms" America's constitution all talks about killing and bearing arms and killing more people.

reply to post by Jameela


No-one is infringing on my rights, yet.

But take the GITMO case. Even as prisoners, they have the arrogance to presume what somene should wear in their presence. It's okay to think you're better than anyone else.
But to ACT as if you're better than anyone else is quite another.

As for wars?

I'll take the fight to my enemy. I won't wait until its on my shore.