Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

I just think it's really important to bring up (again) the issue of homosexuality in Nazi Germany, and the definition of the word genocide (gene killing).

There are people today right now, publishing pseudo-scientific papers about things like "Religious people genetically predisposed to lack of skepticism (genes governing critical thinking are damaged or defective)". This is just like saying "Blue eyes are proper, other colors are defects". It's frowning upon and condemning diversity.

And not only that but it's just an opinion, tradition, choice, etc, if people are religious or not. Sometimes certain random events and realizations happen to people as they grow up and they form totally different perspectives.

Persecution of homosexuals in Nazi Germany and the Holocaust
Linking that wiki again people REALLY need to learn history and how the ruling classes are totally using propaganda to mislead us into turning against each other.
.
The use of double think and thought terminating cliches to close our minds off to thinking and questioning them has proven somewhat effective, but not effective enough.

I am confident that each and every one of you are capable of questioning your own beliefs and especially the belief systems crammed down our throats by the "authorities in society" who try to convince us of totally unsubstantiated agenda driven ideologies that are designed to divide us (and then conquer us).

That's why the Constitution is such an important defense. It is the ultimate law of the land, and it declares that human beings have natural rights and sets out to protect them by defining the limits to the government's authority and power.

If we the people forget about the Constitution or fail to learn it, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of failed Republics in the past like the infamous downfall of the Weimar Republic into outright tyranny.

Well in the true spirit of the bible we are all Gods creatures and that means straight and gay right and left and the only person who gets to pass any judgement of any real meaning is God.

Man wasn't born with relgion he created it people chose to believe some people don't that is the beautiful thing about religion you don't have to believe if you do not want.

However my personal take on religion is between you and your maker it's between you and them and that's it doesn't matter what someone tells you it should be or condemn you for "how you were born".

reply to post by babybunnies

Being homosexual is NOT genetic, it's environmental.

If people in your family are gay, you're not going to pass that along in your genetic makeup, but it kids grow up seeing adults of the same sex interacting in a sexual way together, then there is a strong possibility that they will emulate this behaviour.

It is environmental but not by social environment. Just because a person smokes, it does not mean children around them will too. Christian groups hammer their kids about sexuality, yet some still turn up gay.

Anti-gay minister hired rent boy 'to carry bags'

In some cases, it's the people leading the crusade against gay people that end up gay...



Environmental factors include things like prenatal hormonal exposure, and other factors during the development stage... ie. Chemicals exposed to and diet which changes the way the body and brain develops.

Of course, nothing is completely genetic, nothing is completely chosen. There are a multitude of possibilities that are determined both by choice and genetics. If you took a poor person and a rich person, switching them at birth, they would follow two paths far different from the intended one.

Originally posted by flyingkiwi
The same way red heads are "born that way"

There were always red heads though

If you guys wish to make comparisons it might be a good idea to highlight the lengh of your analogy being in existance and gays

Also the rate of increase in both

I don't know the answer the OP is asking
I believe none of us know
You are all giving nothing but opinions, which is fine, but do not state it as fact

reply to post by Lionhearte


It can be genetic. Look it up.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


There weren't always red heads. Red hair is a genetic mutation.

Eugenics wiki

Nazi Eugenics wiki
Eugenics in the USA wiki

Now who coined the term "Eugenics"?
Francis Galton (wiki)

Now check this out, and this is all DIRECTLY related remember, is this link:
Intellectual Quotient wiki

This whole tradition of testing the IQ of kids (among many other things), derives from Galton and the eugenics movements.

These people want so bad to believe they are special and important, that they will devise grand theories of how you are inferior to them and they are superior to you. Like these IQ tests, which are totally not sufficient identifiers of a personal natural intelligence but rather their schooling/education experience and test taking abilities.

Heritability of IQ wiki

Social Darwinism wiki

"Scientific Racism/Imperialism" wiki

reply to post by Lionhearte


I understand your disclaimer about "loving homosexuals", and then going on to say that you do not desire to see them. you need to first understand that they are not going no where, and it really does'nt matter if they were born that way or not it is just who they are.
I am a straight female and I am married to a man, but I have many friends that are gay or whatever. My whole deal is that if it isn't effecting your daily life why do you care? they face alot of discrimination everyday, and I am not going to be the person that causes them to have lower self esteem or feel like less of a person.
If you want to throw religion into this we can. for instance, god created all us (even these people you are trying to question)- also, we are not supposed to judge others. I have seen more so called "Christians" make ugly defamatory statements about the poor, gay, and other races than any other group. The sad part is they believe that when they sit in that church pew every Sunday they will be saved no mater how many peoples lives they have damaged unnecessarily.
I know you want to know how they are born this way, let me ask you why you chose what sex you are, or how much money you have, and how you know what a sin is. In my book if you question the acts and works of others- you are not focusing on what you need to. kind of like if you can tell on your co-workers you're not doing your job.
*let me not upset you, but why do you care if anybody but you goes to hell? I mean you can't save everybody- or control them. I doubt god gives out brownie points by making someone else s life miserable.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
It cannot possibly be genetic.

If it were genetic, than the geneticist eugenicists could easily develop gene-therapy to "Fix" them.
And that is silly, no matter how hard you try you will never stop people of the same sex from kissing each other. That would be virtually impossible and absurd.

The homosexual community better wise up, because they are shooting themselves in the foot here.

If they just admitted that it's a CHOICE, than they would not face these future predicaments because they have the LEGAL RIGHT to choose their own lifestyle.

But since they claim this has nothing to do with Choice / Freedom, and it's all about being "born that way" with genetic abnormalities or deformities, than I guess the gene therapists and eugenicists are going to have a field day. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, and that time is quickly approaching.

Saying that homosexuality is genetic is not only incorrect, it's foolish and sets them up for a "cleansing".

edit on 29-4-2012 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-4-2012 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

So you made a conscious decision to be straight or homo? Tell me in detail how that process worked? Also, if it's a conscious decision you must have tried both in order to make an educated choice?

reply to post by AllIsOne

So you made a conscious decision to be straight or homo? Tell me in detail how that process worked? Also, if it's a conscious decision you must have tried both in order to make an educated choice?

It's even easier than that.......when (generically speaking) "you", in the audience reading this, sees a member of the opposite sex, how do you"feel"?

Or, for those who are Gay, and you see a member of the SAME sex, same question.

It is THAT simple!!!

reply to post by AllIsOne


Not all decisions are concious decisions...

Just sayin'

Many excellent points laid out in this thread so far about why someone may or may not be gay, The reasons vary I think, and when it comes to "sexuality" there are too many variations to pin point one specific cause I think. The "heart" and the "loins" want what they want for whatever reasons.

I don't think "Sin" enters in as a factor in sexuality... untill.... "deception" is used to manipulate another persons life and sexuality for "selfish" means. Wanting your cake and eating it too, so to speak.

An example of this would be entering into a marriage or relationship "knowing" you are gay, or for that matter unwilling to be monogamous, BUT "tricking" that other person into believing otherwise because you want kids, security, a "cover"...whatever those reasons may be...it is very uncool and hurtful....and a real "mess" for kids happiness and well-being that get caught in the middle of this.

HaHa...too bad...too sad...suck it up chump.....you gave up the prime of your life, trashed your body, lol, that all along didn't "do it for me" anyways....or at least doesn't now that you have a C-section scar and gained 20 lbs...I gotta be ME baby.....sorry every Dream you ever had was shattered, and your heart is broken forever....quit whinning and move on baby, wasn't hard for me....oh yeah...will be going on vacation with my new partner next week, so can't take the kids....I'm sure you'll understand....click.....

Originally posted by AllIsOne


So you made a conscious decision to be straight or homo? Tell me in detail how that process worked? Also, if it's a conscious decision you must have tried both in order to make an educated choice?

What are you trying to say/ask?

Are you insinuating that people do not choose who they kiss?

How would this same exact ideology go over after you get cheated on by your mate?
"OH I am just genetically disposed to have sex with them, so that's why I cheated."

i didnt choose to be left handed

my parents tried to train me to use my right hand from early on, since it is considered taboo/bad/inferior to be left handed

however, i ended up left handed anyway, like 1 in 10 people are, all over the world. some learn to use their right hand, and hide their underlying dexterity out of shame, family expetations, and cultural compliance.

how many people who are left handed orientation, chose to be, compared to those that just "are"? you're either a lefty, a right, or ambi.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by AllIsOne

 

So you made a conscious decision to be straight or homo? Tell me in detail how that process worked? Also, if it's a conscious decision you must have tried both in order to make an educated choice?

It's even easier than that.......when (generically speaking) "you", in the audience reading this, sees a member of the opposite sex, how do you"feel"?

Or, for those who are Gay, and you see a member of the SAME sex, same question.

It is THAT simple!!!

You aren't even making sense.

I don't know ANYONE that is attracted to every member of a specific sex.

I wish it was THAT simple, that every person who liked males wanted me too!

Gay...straight...once your married its all the same sex now isn't it?

Actually you guys are right....just not all the way right......in any species where overcrowding is the norm...genetics mutates to naturally curb population growth....the same way male frogs become females over time due to environmental circumstance.

So yes, homosexuality does occur in nature........with most all species that are in abundance.....

Where you stick yer pole is yer business as I could really care less......you live your life and stay outta mine, and I'll stay outta yours. The only problem I have with anyone is making their sexual preference widely known in a overboard fashion.....this presents a person with no class or self respect.

I don't tell people how many chicks I bang and go into lurid detail....I would appreciate gay and straight alike to use a little modesty when in public. Unfortunately I'm not that lucky. And there are those that walk the earth that have less tolerance for that kinda thing than I do.

I don't hate gays anymore than I hate rap music.....I despise the culture it ferments in public. You are free to do as you please..just don't be a a**hole about it and we get along fine.

reply to post by MaryStillToe


I am sorry to have to tell you this, but your logic is illogical.
If you ever grew up with someone who is gay, then you would know, you knew it maybe before they themselves did.
You are trying to state something like this: there is no conclusive evidence that there is a tangible DNA proof of the emotion love, therefore there is no love-it is inconclusive. I know you did not say the word love, but think about your apples of (mis)wisdom, compared to my oranges of (mis)wisdom I gave you. There is more conclusive evidence and genuine proof of a genetic code contributing to homosexual preferences, than not.

I think that all humans are more or less bi-sexual. And that it can be viewed upon as a continuum from straigt to all gay. Me for instance, is in the middle. I also see similarities in the physical appearances of homosexuals, which leads me to believe that they indeed are "born that way". In the same way as thousands of other animals have gay intercourse. But all in all I think that most people are in the middle of this continuum - maybe in the form of the infamous Bell-curve (from IQ-distribution statistics). First post, yay Peace

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by windword

Secondly, homosexuality does occur naturally in the animal kingdom. Since we are part of the animal kingdom, one must conclude that homo sapiens are equally vulnerable to homosexuality as any other species.

Exactly.

Also, I've had some dogs jump on my leg when they were 'in heat" or whatever people call it. Hah.

Are dogs genetically disposed to wanting human legs? I doubt it that's absurd.
Dogs just will go after anything that fancies them apparently.

Also some species can change sexes naturally due to various conditions.
Oh and some simple creatures are asexual and just make direct copies of themselves.

So there is incredible diversity within this topic range. When looking at the strangeness of nature you begin to see how humans overreact about our minor differences.

Which just goes to emphasize how ridiculous labels really are. Its all over the natural world but its an anomaly in humans ????

reply to post by muzzleflash


Lifes full of choices......Im genetically disposed to being a lesbian trapped in a mans body.....yet I choose to dress like a man as to not freak out the Mormons and this allows my wife to think Im normal......


Im sorry I have to stop typing so I can laugh now.

Gay, straight....whatever.......do what makes you happy.....even if that includes each other. Just be fair about it.

There are genetic dispositions as well as environmental ones that alter choice based on likes and dislikes....its like a sexually abused child...they're more prone to grow up abusing others in the same fashion...or they choose a sexual preference towards the same sex that abused them as a child....even if it means being gay to satisfy that notion.

You guys make it all out like your just born that way....alas..not everyone is...some are taught to be that way.