Explain to me how Homosexuals are "born that way".

Alright, let me start off by saying I do not by ANY means have hatred toward Homosexuals. Yes, you can see my avatar very clearly to the left - but make no mistake, I love Homosexuals with all of my heart, and so does God. I am a Christian, and though I do not approve of Homosexual relations (i.e. sexual relations between same genders, lusting, etc.), I classify it as any other sexual sin - i.e., fornication, sexual immorality, adultery and lusting. Yes, that means we are ALL guilty of sin, except for those who aren't attracted to ANYTHING, because apparently there are some people out there like that.

However, I have a sincere, honest question in response to the claim LGBTs and LGBT-defenders make - that they are, for some reason, born that way. For example - we wouldn't discriminate someone who was born with a disease or something, because it isn't their fault, they had no choice, they were born that way.

So, we've all heard that argument before. First off - to be born in a certain way, we are talking about genetics, correct? So, somebody with a heart disease, possibly received that disease because of a parent, an uncle, a grandparent, etc. It was in their family - that is why you hear the commercials that say "If your family has a history of heart problems", etc, etc.

Now, here's where I'm confused. You get your genetics from your BIOLOGIC parents, correct? So.. how do homosexuals "receive" these supposed "inherent" genes.. if they got them from HETEROSEXUAL parents?

It is a proven fact, undeniably so, that there has never, EVER been a case of a homosexual couple having a biologic child - they can adopt, sure. But that child got his genetics from his BIOLOGICAL parents.

So, LGBTs and LGBT defenders, please answer this for me - where does the gene come from that makes a homosexual "born that way"?

The same way red heads are "born that way"

The egg carrier has gay people in her family. The more children she has the higher the tolerance level the womb has to one of the gender chemicals ie testosterone or estragen. the more children she has example sons the more likely the youngest is going to be homosexual. Also it depends on how much estragen the male son is exposed to in the womb. If he's exposed to alot of estragen most likely his mind will be female.

reply to post by Lionhearte


heya

Here are some useful links on the subject...these below are some arguments 'for' the genetics predeterminism theory...there as many that are 'against' in the debate..results are not full yindependant at this stage and seem dependant on who sponsers the research.

The closest to an independant studfy is the NIC one, not listed here..Icant find the link but it was reasonable sure there is at least, an X chromosone link to sexual preference..wetehr preferences determine results is still a nature/nurture debate...I might have a genetic marker for xyz...but it doesnt always mean that gene is 'expressed' within my lifetime.



US researchers find evidence that homosexuality linked to genetics
www.guardian.co.uk...

NIH research findings:
www.cs.cmu.edu...

Hamer studied the DNA from 40 pairs of homosexual brothers and found 33 of them shared genetic markers on the X chromosome in a region known as Xq28. The X chromosome is one of two sex-determining chromosomes; it is always inherited from mothers. Genes are arranged along 46 chromosomes, each consisting of tiny coils of DNA, deoxyribonucleic acid, which carries the instructions to manufacture a particular body substance. There was no such similar sharing in the same region among heterosexual men.


A molecular study in progress
www.gaybros.com...


cheers

Ro

reply to post by Lionhearte


Not all parents are straight. Alot of gay men have children to hide the fact they are gay. Because of the hatred to the life style. Some communites force gays into acting straight to live a double lifestyle. Simple answer really.

Now, here's where I'm confused. You get your genetics from your BIOLOGIC parents, correct? So.. how do homosexuals "receive" these supposed "inherent" genes.. if they got them from HETEROSEXUAL parents?

IDK, lets ask the "celibate" priests that rape children why they aren't celibate?

People are predisposed genetically, but it doesn't mean that all will live up to their predispositions. Some are happy filling their heads with things that stops certain behaviors, some would rather embrace the feelings they have.

But it isn't limited to homosexuality, it covers a lot of other traits as well. And as far as a history lesson goes, there were quite a lot of people that liked to partake in both sexes over the years. . .

Originally posted by Manunnaki
The egg carrier has gay people in her family. The more children she has the higher the tolerance level the womb has to one of the gender chemicals ie testosterone or estragen. the more children she has example sons the more likely the youngest is going to be homosexual. Also it depends on how much estragen the male son is exposed to in the womb. If he's exposed to alot of estragen most likely his mind will be female.

I believe there were a couple studies done recently that highlighted this very well. And it's a simple explanation, which could explain how to very hetero parents give birth to a child that is quite opposite, hormones affect the fetus in pregnancy. And that is quite relevant to the OP.

Food for thought. Why would anyone chose to be gay knowing that society people in society rather could potentially kill them for being gay. Make sense of that.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Assuming it is genetic, then there are many possibilities.

Homosexuality may be similar to recessive genetic traits, so that parents are carriers of homosexual genes without being homosexual themselves. Or homosexual genes express only under certain conditions which were not present for the parents. Or the parents are really bisexual to some degree. And I am sure a geneticist could come up with many other plausible reasons.

I think homosexuality is a combination of many genetic and environmental factors (hormones in the womb etc..). So reality is not going to be so simple.

Wow, quick responses, thank you guys.

reply to post by Manunnaki


Well, your first sentence made not much sense, but I think I understand what you are saying. I think that is VERY interesting, and if you could, please provide a few links, any links really, to a study done out there based on the estrogen, etc - I know there is one, because I think I read about one before.

reply to post by Rosha


Thank you! This is very informative. I will save all of those links and research them later.

reply to post by Manunnaki


(Your second post)

I suppose that makes sense, but then again, that would make them bisexual and not homosexual, no? I mean, logically speaking. Am I incorrect?

reply to post by boncho


What do priests have to do with anything? I mean, was that really necessary? You know, boncho, I find it.. interesting that any thread I see you in, you have to bash Religion at least in one post. I hate religion as much as the next guy, but honestly?

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Assuming it is genetic, then there are many possibilities.

Homosexuality may be similar to recessive genetic traits, so that parents are carriers of homosexual genes without being homosexual themselves. Or homosexual genes express only under certain conditions which were not present for the parents. Or the parents are really bisexual to some degree. And I am sure a geneticist could come up with many other plausible reasons.

I think homosexuality is a combination of many genetic and environmental factors. So reality is not going to be so simple.

That doesn't really answer my question, because you're still saying the gene came from "somewhere" in the family - yet everyone in anyone's biological family is heterosexual, I mean, at LEAST bisexual. If you want to say that it came from a recessive gene - meaning somewhere further up the chain, then.. when did it start? I don't even know if we'll ever know the answer to where it all started, but.. food for thought.

mabey its the way the child is raised

reply to post by Lionhearte

yet everyone in anyone's biological family is heterosexual, I mean, at LEAST bisexual.

Thats not a given, I am sure there were countless homosexual people who had children of their own. Homosexuals are not infertile.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

yet everyone in anyone's biological family is heterosexual, I mean, at LEAST bisexual.

Thats not a given, I am sure there were countless homosexual people who had children of their own. Homosexuals are not infertile.

I.. how? How could a male carry a child? I don't even want to think about that.. It makes me cringe. Besides, there's no documented evidence for that, so in a court of law, it would be thrown out as it's considered an assumption.

[Edit] Oh wait, I think I see what you mean. You mean a homosexual reproducing with a heterosexual? That makes sense, because of that other person's post. Though.. I am kind of tired, and.. yea. Sorry.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
Wow, quick responses, thank you guys.

reply to post by Manunnaki

 

Well, your first sentence made not much sense, but I think I understand what you are saying. I think that is VERY interesting, and if you could, please provide a few links, any links really, to a study done out there based on the estrogen, etc - I know there is one, because I think I read about one before.

Not to be rude..but Im not here to do your homework for you...so how about you go google..go use M.U.S.E or PUBmed or JOSE or another site that has science based research on it and find out for yourself? Or better still..go speak with a person who identifies as a homosexual and find out what its like..what they thing..how they feel as regards the issue of choice.

cheers

Ro

Gay Gene

I see that you are blind and I will now pull the veil from over your eyes. Here is the dumbed down version of what I said. Women carry a gay gene and it most prominant when they have gay family members. Gay people have children because society forces them to. Being bi has nothing to do with the equation. Ever heard of Mathew Shepherd? That's why gays live double lifestyles.

Genetics is not really a 100% predictor of much. The idea that genes can predict behavior, wants and attractions is not only absurd it is dangerous. Every time some asshat comes up with some BS how group X's behavior is caused by gene Y it is quickly proven to be wrong by other scientists, but the media only runs with the story about the discovery of the "criminal gene" or the "cheating gene" so the public is left with these half baked ideas.

I do not believe that homosexuals are "born" that way but saying it is a "choice" is an even dumber statement. Children are not born liking pizza but they can choose to eat it. The problem that many people run into is the confusion of feminine characteristics with sexuality when in truth the two are not related in anyway.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Everyone should be aware that there is no conclusive scientific evidence that links sexual preference to genetics.

I have a friend who was a biology major with a concentration in genetics who tried to convince me otherwise. He resents me to this day because I revealed that all of the scientific studies he tried to offer as "PROOF" were all inconclusive.

Prefrences are psychological, not biological. The day we find a gene that determines sexual preference, is the day we have to admit that humans do not have any type of freewill or choice.

reply to post by Lionhearte


I'm gay and I can tell you first hand that I was born such. What is the alternative that you Suggest? To claim that I made the choice to be a second class citizen, to be disowned by both parents, for something I had a choice in is rediculous.


Did you decide to be straight?

And anyway just because your religion says its a sin does not make it so. My god and faith out date yours by three to one and accepts homosexuality,