The belief that Fallen Angels mated with human women

reply to post by Hydroman
I don't believe there is any instance in the bible where Jesus took the whip to anyone...

he whipped the establishment if that's what you mean? alot of Jewish still pissed about that btw.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by Hydroman

 

I don't believe there is any instance in the bible where Jesus took the whip to anyone...

he whipped the establishment if that's what you mean? alot of Jewish still pissed about that btw.

Think again. He most certainly did, according to the Bible.

John 2:15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

That's the big secret of the freemasonry...

Sons of God and the daughters of men. As above, so below. Fusion of opposites. Male and female combined. Yin and Yang, etc. etc.

To those of you who say that angels cannot procreate with human women, that's true; but only in Heaven. The fallen angels deny God's kingdom and are in rebellion. They can very much impregnate human women.

reply to post by windword
cool that means I can beat up the evildoers too...

trust in me, if I see a rape or some other vile crap taking place I'll have no mercy!

I'll read this passage in the book and what leads up to it... then I'll explain what it really means

--------

it would seem the passage you pick is as hotly contested as Matthew 10:34

plenty of sites dealing with the underlying meaning... (they of the temple were obviously the 'small cords' which he made a scourge of)

I have done a little research on this.. but very little. Have you heard of the Red Headed Giants of Nevada? I was directed to this after talking to an archeologist that worked on a giant femur bone. He stated that all evidence of these giants are snatched up by the Smithsonian by any means necessary. He’s theory on the flood was that it caused huge atmospheric changes, that would not allow the long life spans as before the flood. It didn’t take me long to figure out why the Smithsonian would try and hide such things. Now a days if you aren’t atheist it is very difficult to be in academics. If there is a current cover-up on information that would credit the Bible, it tends to lend the notion that there is a fight going on. Which in turn makes what I believe more solidified to myself. The giants, in my mind, can help explain how all these huge temples were made. Like Baalbek.

I am not a scholar. But I have read in the Bible of many accounts where angels took on human form. Didn’t Jacob wrestle with an angel of God and get hurt?

reply to post by windword


Jesus might have been showing "righteous indignation" concerning the House of his Father Jehovah being turned into a shopping mall...full of dodgy sellers fleecing the masses with debunked goods. However he wasn't a man of violence. He no doubt used the whip to stir up the animals and drive them and their owners out of the temple courtyards.

(John 2:13-16) 13 Now the passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And he found in the temple those selling cattle and sheep and doves and the money brokers in their seats. 15 So, after making a whip of ropes, he drove all those with the sheep and cattle out of the temple, and he poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he said to those selling the doves: “Take these things away from here! Stop making the house of my Father a house of merchandise!”

Luke, Matthew and Mark make no mention of Jesus whipping people or animals...they just shorten the account by saying he overturned the tables they were dealing on and threw them out.

(Matthew 21:12-14) 12 And Jesus entered into the temple and threw out all those selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 And he said to them: “It is written, ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but YOU are making it a cave of robbers.” 14 Also, blind and lame persons came up to him in the temple, and he cured them.

It would be hard to imagine blind and lame men approaching a Jesus if he was out of control or overly in a rage subsequently having used a whip to excess.

It was his words that did the most damage and the fact that he was performing miracles.... Caiphus his family and the Jewish hierarchy were on a "nice little earner" at the Temple and this Jesus was becoming a nuisance - time to get rid, so they plotted his downfall.

A few days later they had Jesus arrested and executed at the hands of their Roman masters, who they normally despised. Jesus whole trial and execution made a mockery of both the Jewish & Roman judicial system. If Jesus had in anyway acted viciously towards anyone they would have surely used that evidence against him. As it was even Pilate could find no wrong in him.

Thus came to pass the fulfillment of the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 that Satan and "his" seed or organisation - false worship and governmental authorities - bruised Jesus (God's seed) in the heel.

Originally posted by JB1234
the Bible clearly states these Angels who wished to follow Satan - the orginal slanderer or liar against God - desired the daughters of men, because they were good looking. So it appears these angels wanted to experience the physical pleasures of sex, which in turn produced offspring.

You're still not answering my question. Let's say that angels did have sex with human women. How in the hell did they create offspring from sex? These are two different species. To create offspring through sexual reproduction, you have to be of the same species. How can two different species create offspring??????

And if they became fully human, why did their offspring not also become fully human instead of hybrids? If they weren't fully human, how did they procreate with human women? It doesn't work, unless there is genetic manipulation involved, which implies advanced technology...

Originally posted by netgamer7k
To those of you who say that angels cannot procreate with human women, that's true; but only in Heaven. The fallen angels deny God's kingdom and are in rebellion. They can very much impregnate human women.

Are you saying that god created angels with sexual reproductive organs? If so, why?

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
cool that means I can beat up the evildoers too...

trust in me, if I see a rape or some other vile crap taking place I'll have no mercy!

Unless they beat you up first....

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by JB1234
the Bible clearly states these Angels who wished to follow Satan - the orginal slanderer or liar against God - desired the daughters of men, because they were good looking. So it appears these angels wanted to experience the physical pleasures of sex, which in turn produced offspring.

You're still not answering my question. Let's say that angels did have sex with human women. How in the hell did they create offspring from sex? These are two different species. To create offspring through sexual reproduction, you have to be of the same species. How can two different species create offspring??????

And if they became fully human, why did their offspring not also become fully human instead of hybrids? If they weren't fully human, how did they procreate with human women? It doesn't work, unless there is genetic manipulation involved, which implies advanced technology...

edit on 16-4-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

Tigers can mate with lions ...they are two different species but they can have sex and produce offspring.

However similar to the Angels who materialised into human males and mated with female humans...
their offspring just like ligers are sterile.

There are a few other examples where animals of two different similar species have mated and produced offspring.

Jehovah the Creator stopped these wicked Angels being able to materialise into human males at the Flood...this then made it impossible for the demons to have sex with human females.

reply to post by Hydroman
heck that's one thing about being a...

physically I will and have no problems tooting my own horn hehe.

Some more ancient documents concerning the nephilim

The Zadokite Document

The Apocalpse of Baruch

The Epic of Gilgamesh

Book of Enoch

Book of Jasher

Originally posted by JB1234
Tigers can mate with lions ...they are two different species but they can have sex and produce offspring.

They are both cats, and they produce a cat. Angels and humans mating would be like humans mating with chimpanzees. It won't work.

EDIT: After doing more research, you are right that they are not the same species, but they are of the same genus. Would angels and humans be of the same genus?

Anyway, why did Angels have reproductive organs if they don't use them on each other? Or, did they grow a shlong and testicles full of sperm out of thin air?

Originally posted by JB1234
Jehovah the Creator stopped these wicked Angels being able to materialise into human males at the Flood...this then made it impossible for the demons to have sex with human females.

Being omniscient, why did he allow it in the first place? That doesn't make any sense..

Originally posted by JaneC
Some more ancient documents concerning the nephilim

The Zadokite Document

The Apocalpse of Baruch

The Epic of Gilgamesh

Book of Enoch

Book of Jasher

Thank you Jane.

Originally posted by Hydroman

And if they became fully human, why did their offspring not also become fully human instead of hybrids? If they weren't fully human, how did they procreate with human women? It doesn't work, unless there is genetic manipulation involved, which implies advanced technology...

I would suspect that when they became fully human that they also had fully human offspring that were giant humans. Now, maybe once they became human they had different human DNA, but I don't remember ever reading that the giants had any special powers other than the fact that they were strong due to being giant. David did kill Goliath after all.

However, it is my understanding that the fallen angels did teach humans "secrets" and "magick" too. There's no telling what the "secrets" might have been, but it might be what you would interpret as "advanced technology".

Originally posted by JB1234
reply to post by windword

 

Jesus might have been showing "righteous indignation" concerning the House of his Father Jehovah being turned into a shopping mall...full of dodgy sellers fleecing the masses with debunked goods. However he wasn't a man of violence. He no doubt used the whip to stir up the animals and drive them and their owners out of the temple courtyards.

(John 2:13-16) 13 Now the passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And he found in the temple those selling cattle and sheep and doves and the money brokers in their seats. 15 So, after making a whip of ropes, he drove all those with the sheep and cattle out of the temple, and he poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 And he said to those selling the doves: “Take these things away from here! Stop making the house of my Father a house of merchandise!”

Luke, Matthew and Mark make no mention of Jesus whipping people or animals...they just shorten the account by saying he overturned the tables they were dealing on and threw them out.

(Matthew 21:12-14) 12 And Jesus entered into the temple and threw out all those selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 And he said to them: “It is written, ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but YOU are making it a cave of robbers.” 14 Also, blind and lame persons came up to him in the temple, and he cured them.

It would be hard to imagine blind and lame men approaching a Jesus if he was out of control or overly in a rage subsequently having used a whip to excess.

That's probably why TPTB omitted it from the text. It really doesn't matter to me if it makes sense. If it is a part of this individual' s character, then it is. Christains argue that Jesus came to bring a sword. You can't have it both ways. Either Jesus was a pacifist or he wasn't.

It was his words that did the most damage and the fact that he was performing miracles.... Caiphus his family and the Jewish hierarchy were on a "nice little earner" at the Temple and this Jesus was becoming a nuisance - time to get rid, so they plotted his downfall.

A few days later they had Jesus arrested and executed at the hands of their Roman masters, who they normally despised. Jesus whole trial and execution made a mockery of both the Jewish & Roman judicial system. If Jesus had in anyway acted viciously towards anyone they would have surely used that evidence against him. As it was even Pilate could find no wrong in him.

It might have been the llast straw, but I doubt it was the definitive act that seal his fate.

Thus came to pass the fulfillment of the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 that Satan and "his" seed or organisation - false worship and governmental authorities - bruised Jesus (God's seed) in the heel.

Yeah, Christians always use this scripture to proclaim his prophetic divinity. I don't buy it.

1) Jesus isn't 100% human, maybe not at all. He was born of a virgin who may have only been a surrogate, and not the egg donor, as far as we know.

2) How did Satan father human seed?

3) Jesus had a crown of thorns, nails in his hands and maybe his feet, and his side was pierced. None of that references his heal or the head of a snake being bruised.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Hydroman

 

First question:

Why are we using/going to to secular sources to define Biblical terms?

This is the big problem Christians have in learning these things.....the Bible is NOT the whole story, nor is the Bible the Whole TRUTH. The Bible cannot prove, or disprove, itself, and anyone should know that, right?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Yep, based on the Hebrew/Jewish Talmud and Teachings, right? Do you have any idea what a Jew thinks of an American Christian? A well known Jewish scholar (Dibre David) writes:

"If the Gentiles (non-Jews) knew what we are teaching against them, they would kill us."

The Jewish secret laws are based on the fundamental principle which states: Only the Jew is human. In contrast all non-Jews are animals, they are beasts in human form. Anything is permitted against them. The Jew may lie to, cheat and steal from them. He may rape and murder them. There are hundreds of passages in the Talmud which the non-jews are described as animals. Three of them are as follows:

1. "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." (Talmud: Baba Mezia 114b).

2. "It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah (Talmud - Sanhedrin 59b).

3. The laws demand the Jews to butcher non-Jews from time to time. (The Laws of The Talmud and the Law of Human Sacrifice)

These laws of the Talmud were given to the Jews over 3000 years ago. They are just as valid today as they were back then. This is how the Jews are taught from childhood.

Here is something I find to be very funny, and quite ironic too. Christians believe in Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi as their Messiah and Savior. They also believe their KJV Bible is translated directed directly from the Talmud, the Hebrew Holy Book.
Why is it then the Hebrew do not believe in Jesus?

1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3. Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
And that's not all.....
26 Reasons Jews do not believe in Jesus

reply to post by Hydroman


God gave the angels as well as mankind free will.

God never has exercised total pre-destination - just the fact that he had a plan.

Jehovah in Hebrew means "He causes to become" but that very meaning has a degree of variance in this because it has more of a meaning that he causes to become by whatever means are necessary.

Jesus would not have chosen Judas Iscariot to be a disciple had he been sure that he would betray him surely.

We all have a choice. God didn't create robots without free will.

Moses placed the choice of whether the people obeyed their God or not.. They had a choice. Their choice also would have consequences....

(Deuteronomy 11:26-28) . . .See, I am putting before YOU today blessing and malediction: 27 the blessing, provided YOU will obey the commandments of Jehovah YOUR God that I am commanding YOU today; 28 and the malediction, if YOU will not obey the commandments of Jehovah YOUR God and YOU do turn aside from the way about which I am commanding YOU today, so as to walk after other gods whom YOU have not known

Would angels and humans be of the same genus?

Really this is an immaterial question...because you are simply not listening or reading what I've posted.

I have already explained that the Angels in heaven had NO sexual organs - the Bible indicates this "they could not marry"....it was only WHEN they changed their spritual bodies and materialised into human male bodies ON THE EARTH that they could mate with female humans. Either you accept this explanation or you say that is impossible..but to argue that humans and angels couldn't create a life by sexual reproduction is immaterial, because WHEN they mated THEY had changed their form. Hence why the Nephilim were hybrids.

God made a hybrid life from the egg of Mary in her womb to create Jesus - a perfect man. Just as he being a spiritual being created the first man and his mate the first woman. The Angels would have seen how God created life on Earth. They were endowed with great powers, but they misused the power of materialisation into human form so that they could fulfill their sexual lust for the "daughters of men".

The Psalmist describes how God created human life from the very building blocks of life....

(Psalm 139:14-16) . . .I shall laud you because in a fear-inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, As my soul is very well aware. 15 My bones were not hidden from you When I was made in secret, When I was woven in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, And in your book all its parts were down in writing,. . .

All of our parts are indeed formed at the very moment of conception - written in the genetic code of the DNA of every single one of us...our unique features. Just as if they were written in a book. If God created humans...why would you question whether a spirit son of God could transform himself into a human male?

Of course you may dismiss God as being the Creator but then that is a different matter.

So many Ancient beleif systems globally contain distant tales of Gods coming to earth and transforming themselves into humans and taking wives for themseleves producing "the men of fame" the half humans, half Gods.