Everyone DOES understand why there can't be an Armed Population?

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by IkNOwSTuff
Im always left stumped by Americans arguments for gun ownership, to me it just seems like idiots want guns to protect themselves from other idiots with guns. Do you seriously not see how all your justifications for gun ownership are self deafeting

Anyone who condones the disarming of the population, will continue to do such...until it is they who are brutalised by the police themselves.

That is the only reason why for you, it is still an abstract or theoretical argument. If you are put in a situation where you actually need to fight, and then your tone will change.

edit on 6-4-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

So is it safe to assume since for you this isnt an abstract or theoretical argument that you have been brutalised by the police and had to pull out your gun to save yourself?
Didnt think so, the discussion is "abstract or theoretical" for all of us

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by dreamstalker
reply to post by TsukiLunar

 

Trust me they are not Fine as you say, they are helpless, and the new big plan to disarm America is brillant, they are going to use holograms of UFOs stating they want all the citizens to turn in their weapons or they will attack, so get ready.

If I shoot at one, and it doesn't make a "DING!" sound, but the bullet goes straight through it instead, that's pretty much a dead giveaway, isn't it?

I know it would be good enough for me, but you know how some skeptics are, they would probably squeeze off a few more just to make sure. hahaha

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


We like firearms period , I dont agree with hunting for sport but I do agree with hunting for food. Recreational shooting is a past time many americans hold dear . I myself enjoy going to the range whenever I can. I also conceal carry because I had 2 firearms pulled on me in a years time .

If any law is passed banning firearms only the law abiding will submit. leaving a whole lot of guns for the criminals and given the typical response time between 6 mins and a half hour . You are leaving a lot to chance. Not to mention sometimes the police show up and shoot the victims dog because its barking.

So calling the police isn't always the best option. Yes people die in the US because of firearms. But they also die because of smoking , car accidents , poison , knives . Hell I knew this local crack head where I live actually killed some poor bastard with a pitchfork. Point being people die , # happens. Does this mean we ban pitchforks? how bout cars? there were 8,775 fire arms related murders in 2010 out of a population of roughly 315 million people. I really dont think thats too bad . I mean 1 is terrible but the fact is criminals will never give up their arms so forcing law abiding citizens to give up theirs seems to me atleast a little naive

reply to post by TsukiLunar


People kill...not guns. We are a demonic immoral country who engages in illegal wars, 51 million aborted babies, drones killing civilians, running the drug cartels, child kidnapping rings, and just about any other demonic thing you can think of.

reply to post by Joeycakes


Dude if you want to own a gun thats one thing but to say you need one..........
Do Americans think that criminals dont exist anywhere else in the world? do you not think that everyone else is concerned with assault, murder, theft and rape?
the rest of the world is as concerned as you are but we get by without guns.

The reason guns and gun related violence is such an issue there is because 1) the culture accepts guns and 2) they are so readily available.

How can you all not see this

Gun ownership has nothing to do with resisting tyranny.

We in the US have set by and allowed TPTB subjugate us for four decades. We saw what the owners of this country would do to anyone who dared to confront their authority when we witnessed Kent State (four dead in Ohio).

Four decades of attacking our rights and constantly taking virtually all our freedoms and not one peep from anyone, gun lovers or gun haters. Apathy is what Amerika is all about today. Amerika has no will and no hope without action.

Any law that bans anything from public is a proof of incompetent government. If government offered proper education, proper law enforcement and proper, well, governing there would be no need to ban anything from law abiding citizens.

In many EU countries guns are banned and as a result it never happened that a criminal walked into someone's property and was stopped. They walk in, take what they want, rape your wife, shoot your kids and walk out. Police never finds them of course since this is real life, not CSI. If you happen to have attack dogs you have a chance, but if you hurt the impostor you'll have big jail time, dogs put down etc. so whatever happens a law abiding citizen WILL lose no question about it.

There's a good reason people went to and still go to America. Oh and Japan is no argument, Japanese are culturally and racially "pure" so to speak which makes violence almost non existent.

Maybe half of y'all saw past my title and actually UNDERSTOOD what I was saying.I guess I'll have to break it down for those who don't read AND comprehend.
My title was sarcasm,taking the place of the gun grabbers side,attempting to explain their thought process',not mine .They want us to be[basically] people with the emotional mentality of sheep.
Anyone who wants a gun should be able to own one without restriction,whether it's to punch holes in paper in ever tightening groups(hopefully),or to help them sleep better at night.
Whatever floats your boat.My Thread and it's freak-people-out title are meant to make
People take a step back and try to see past the everyday whining about gun "violence".
To the few of you who "got it" the first time:kudos...to the other "pro-gunners" who didn't,please read it again carefully with an open mind,as well as my follow up posts.
Bottom line is that American gun owners are in trouble,even just basing that on the responses on this thread.
But you(we all) need to understand the why of the attacks.

Originally posted by Homedawg
reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot

 

Actually I started this thread to get people to thinking beyond the front
page, to looking at motivations and long term planning that is being done.... To get the people to look at WHY they keep trying to ban guns......had nothing to do with safety or saving lives....

SEE?

Originally posted by Homedawg
What's wrong with live and let live?As my thread opener suggests,gun owners have enough problems without non gunners clogging up the landscape with futile(and useless ) arguments that aren't going to change a single gun owners mind.Do you seriously think you will convince a gun
Person to go dispose of their firearms on some philosophical grounds?if you really do, then delusion is an indie ypu need to seek help for.
And if you realize it's futile,you are arguing just to make noise.... Lots more productive things to do....but knock yourself out if you wish.But my opening statement stands true for those who are willing to listen to it.Theres more there than meets the eye.

edit on 4/5/2012 by Homedawg because: Squirrels are rats that live in trees

Here's another attempt to explain

And Some of you may even be aware the SCOUS ruled that you have no RIGHT to police protection.Meaning if you call 911,they might get there but if they don't its on you, not them.
I'd rather plan on them but depend on me

reply to post by Homedawg


"America's gun owners are in trouble"?

Hate to break it to you, but we are ALL in trouble. Read my post. It makes no difference where you are on gun ownership. We ALL have allowed our country to be owned by TPTB for half a century without any ACTION. Bitch, bitch, bitch but nothing else. For God's sake Alex Jones has been ranting for 15 years and not once called for any action short of selling his videos. Hugging a gun while your country is raped accomplishes nothing.

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by Homedawg

 

"America's gun owners are in trouble"?

Hate to break it to you, but we are ALL in trouble. Read my post. It makes no difference where you are on gun ownership. We ALL have allowed our country to be owned by TPTB for half a century without any ACTION. Bitch, bitch, bitch but nothing else. For God's sake Alex Jones has been ranting for 15 years and not once called for any action short of selling his videos. Hugging a gun while your country is raped accomplishes nothing.

Ahhh deflection from the central issue... Interesting but an oft used ploy....it makes no diff why someone owns a gun....comfort(hugging if you will)is just one of many but they are all in trouble...centering on screwed up government dilutes the argument

Originally posted by Homedawg
Maybe half of y'all saw past my title and actually UNDERSTOOD what I was saying.I guess I'll have to break it down for those who don't read AND comprehend.
My title was sarcasm

Why read the whole post when you wrote a perfectly good title? I don't understand. Your OP wasn't even that long to warrant not reading it all.

I honestly don't think the US government will attempt to disarm the general public. We all know big business is favored by law makers, and the firearm and ammunition companies are no different. Read that thread on ALEC? They got together with NRA to write the stand your ground laws, according to the article posted in that thread.

Gun companies make a lot of money off US armed forces, from LEO to G.I. Joe (lol unintended rhyme), but there's still money to be made off citizens.

I don't think the US government minds the responsible gun owner loading up. It moves money and adds another defender to the land. It's become slightly obvious we're obsessed with defense over here in the US, so the more the merrier.

As for arguments against the ownership of weapons (seems mostly by Iknowstuff?).

I don't think a main point, centering around 'everyone else gets by', is too strong itself. What the hell does it matter what everyone else does? We're not them. US can't be compared to other countries, just like those countries shouldn't be compared amongst themselves.

It almost seems like the opinion is people buy guns and then suddenly decide, "man, I could TOTALLY rob that corner store." You honestly think violence and gun crimes come from guns existing? (Don't put a roll eyes face as if you don't understand what I mean. Obviously guns are manufactured, but knife crimes don't come from steak knife manufacturing.)

Crime gets committed by criminals. Some criminals use guns to commit their crimes.

A mature, responsible, stable minded gun owner does not, on average, commit violent crimes, using or due to, his/her ownership of a firearm.

The people who use guns for violent criminal purposes are from the same breed, no matter where in the world. Same goes for the mature gun owner.

I also don't think the mature gun owner has any delusions as to his ability to pull a gun at every moment if/when they feel their life is threatened (Btw, George Zimmerman was not mature). The truth is that if someone gets the drop on you, your gun is possibly sitting worthless somewhere. Maybe even in your holster. But that's still not an argument against guns.

There aren't always cops riding in white armor on a white horse coming to save the day, as fast as light.

I think it's fairly naive and defeatist to think that having a weapon does no good, as no situation will arise, and if it does, then you're fudged.

My family has come into contact with guns. One family member had a weapon less than 2 feet away as his home was quietly invaded. It proved him useless, and he had to fight tooth and nail for us life, with his bare hands. He's still here, safe and sound.

Then again my dad's .357 has time and time again ensured the protection of his family. And no, the gun was not fired. No blood left on the street, and no cops to get involved. If it weren't for my father's weapon, I could potentially not be here today.

And you want to tell me I have no reason to carry a gun in the United States?

reply to post by Miraj




No its not, Get an airsoft gun and you will see.
Situation dictates of course but I can routinely step past and draw against an attacker with a gun pointed at me.
Even when the guy holding the gun on you is expecting you to move and draw he still cant process what his eyes are seeing fast enough to react to your movement. Again this is depending on how close you are to him. The thing about it is that bad guys want to get close to you so they can grab what you have. Let them. Thats where you can be most dangerous. Are you going to just stand in place and draw like some movie cowboy no you have to move first and draw at the same time. Its not hard I am not some super special ninja. I am just a normal guy who has had a little training.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


Haven't you heard; Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And if they # up and use it for the wrong reasons you take away their rights NOT ours.

reply to post by Homedawg


Very interesting thread, I thought you were going to tell us why the citizenry should not be armed. But yes, I agree with you. I was once asked if I would rather have the right to vote or the right to bear arms. I chose the right to bear arms. Why?

Voting without any real pull is just a game. If you have the right to bear arms, you can get the right to legitimately vote back.

Originally posted by Homedawg

Originally posted by romanmel
reply to post by Homedawg

 

"America's gun owners are in trouble"?

Hate to break it to you, but we are ALL in trouble. Read my post. It makes no difference where you are on gun ownership. We ALL have allowed our country to be owned by TPTB for half a century without any ACTION. Bitch, bitch, bitch but nothing else. For God's sake Alex Jones has been ranting for 15 years and not once called for any action short of selling his videos. Hugging a gun while your country is raped accomplishes nothing.

Ahhh deflection from the central issue... Interesting but an oft used ploy....it makes no diff why someone owns a gun....comfort(hugging if you will)is just one of many but they are all in trouble...centering on screwed up government dilutes the argument

If you think "centering on acrewed up government dilutes the argument" you don't understand why the founders of this nation first gave us the right to keep and bear arms. It was for just that reason, my friend. My opinion is that what we have here is an OP who is a troll loking for an argument.