Fabrice Muamba: Racist Twitter user jailed for 56 days (Right or Wrong)

This is a slippery slope.

Freedom is Speech is Freedom of Speech. Wether or not it is hateful, spiteful, wonderful, happy, depressive, fearful, or any other relatable emotions.

People who think certain items in speech (such as hate speech) should be censored do not understand what they are doing to other people OR themselves. First, we start blocking hate speech. Then, something happens in society and all of a sudden it's not acceptable to label someone with say...a larger then average big toe. Now we censor those words...and so on and so on until we no longer have FREEDOM OF SPEECH because it has been restricted so much.

Back in the day our society used to handle situations like these IMHO the correct way. Society would ostracize (or excommunicate) this person. They would no longer be able to get a job, function in their communities, because everyone would know he was a racist POS. This, again, IMHO is how we should be functioning as a society - not relying on our government is solve our problems for us.

We cannot and we MUST not allow government to legislate our morality and values in our societies. It is this core principle that people just-don't-get. This isn't to say things like the Civil Rights Act was bad - it's goal was to provide equalitity and freedom to everyone (not just whites) and THAT is the purpose of government.

We should not be relying on the courts, police, magistrates (in the UK) to tell us how to run our societies cultural and moral values. Plain and simple. They are there to interpret the law, not make moral decisions for us.

do so many people struggle with the concept its the law the kid broke?
its not about "is it right nor wrong"

break laws expect consequences
is the sentence fitting to his crime?
yet again thats not for me nor you to decide as i`m not a judge and there the people who decide the sentence based on the crime

reply to post by judus


As disgusting as it is, he should not have been jailed. Free Speech is far more important than some jerk and yes that person is a jerk. Jailing someone for speech though is a slippery slope.

Has it always been this way in the UK, or is this new?

Sadly though, I think we in the US are only a few years behind the UK in having our Freedoms taken away. I feel your pain.

Originally posted by YipMan

Originally posted by sitchin

the courts sent a message .. racial tensions in Britain comes from all sides ..takes one idiot to start the ball rolling ....56 days in prison ..he will serve 2 weeks max ....social media sites are not places where you want to start racial rants ...

anyone with half a brain should know this...

exactly this point

the uk is a racial tinderbox that just needs the 1 slightest spark for all kinds of riots and backlashes to fire up
the goverment and police are fully aware of this
if they did nothing about this kid and his racial outburst they risked more racial hatred exploding
and at the end of the day regardless of ones stance on racism/free speech
the kid broke a law
its not up for debate as law is the law regardless if myself or anybody else agrees with it
we do not make the laws but we have to abide by them regardless of if we agree with them or not

Why do you think the UK is a racial tinderbox ? Im interested

Originally posted by YipMan
the uk is a racial tinderbox that just needs the 1 slightest spark for all kinds of riots and backlashes to fire up
the goverment and police are fully aware of this

Meanwhile...

Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed after judge hears 'they weren't used to drinking because they're Muslims'

A gang of Muslim women who attacked a passer-by in a city centre walked free from court after a judge heard they were ‘not used to being drunk’ because of their religion.

The group – three sisters and a cousin – allegedly screamed ‘kill the white slag’ as they set upon Rhea Page as she waited for a taxi with her boyfriend.

Miss Page, 22, was left with a bald patch where her hair was pulled out in the attack and was left ‘black and blue’ after suffering a flurry of kicks to the head, back, arms and legs while motionless on the pavement.

Daily Mail

So racist tweets by a white person towards a black football player warrants 56 days in Jail, while an attack by a gang of Somalis shouting 'kill the white slag' warrnants suspended jail terms?

reply to post by judus


why you asking me..i don't make the laws

it is what it is ....only advice i can can offer is choose your words very carefully when responding in social media sites

what you say in private is your business

thanks for the input

Originally posted by judus

Originally posted by sitchin
his suffering? ..the dude who racially abused a dying man on a twitter ...

im not getting off... just pointing out i think we were right to lock him up ...

we live in a multicultural society, everyone in the uk knows the score when it comes to racism..its a no no

the courts sent a message .. racial tensions in Britain comes from all sides ..takes one idiot to start the ball rolling ....56 days in prison ..he will serve 2 weeks max ....social media sites are not places where you want to start racial rants ...

anyone with half a brain should know this...

The sun newspaper hacked into a murdered little girls phone. Should they be locked up ?

What was this so called message the courts sent ? "do not be racist towards a ill black footballer"

Its not about whether you think he was right or wrong, its about been jailed for having said something.

What next ? I think racist thoughts and they will lock me up

edit on 28-3-2012 by judus because: (no reason given)

Why do you keep trying to compare two cases as though they are the same? The issue here is very simple. A law exists, the guy not only broke it but broke it leaving a trail back to his own front door courtesy of using twitter.

What has that to do with the Sun case, they are completely separate. I agree that there should be sentences handed out IF a law was found to have been violated - you can't make laws up on the spot, maybe you would like a lynch squad mentality?

If you have racist thoughts in your head, that's your business as long as they stay there but maybe you should look at trying to understand why you blame a race rather than individuals for those thoughts.

Originally posted by judus

Originally posted by YipMan

Originally posted by sitchin

the courts sent a message .. racial tensions in Britain comes from all sides ..takes one idiot to start the ball rolling ....56 days in prison ..he will serve 2 weeks max ....social media sites are not places where you want to start racial rants ...

anyone with half a brain should know this...

exactly this point

the uk is a racial tinderbox that just needs the 1 slightest spark for all kinds of riots and backlashes to fire up
the goverment and police are fully aware of this
if they did nothing about this kid and his racial outburst they risked more racial hatred exploding
and at the end of the day regardless of ones stance on racism/free speech
the kid broke a law
its not up for debate as law is the law regardless if myself or anybody else agrees with it
we do not make the laws but we have to abide by them regardless of if we agree with them or not

Why do you think the UK is a racial tinderbox ? Im interested

because of where i have lived in the uk i know its a racial tinderbox on both sides of the fence "white and black"
things like this o.p only aggrevate racial tensions more

It makes me laugh when the people from the USA say that they are free and that the UK much worse on personal freedoms.
TSA?
Old women getting put on no fly lists because they publish something saying their government is in the wrong.
Since 9/11 your/our government stripped away our freedom, they can lock us up without trial, spy on us on the internet and all sorts.
BUT I do agree with the law we have here saying it is illegal to spread racist speech or anything that will incite a race riot.

But hey lets all be thankful eh? there are many places on earth which are worse than our two nations.

This is a tough issue. One half of me wants to scream from the rooftops that speech, talk, typing,
communication of any type, should be legal.

The other half of me realizes that yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater should be against the law.

But it is a slippery slope, and once we begin regulating what is, and what isn't, legal to say, we start to slide.

Judging by the many responses in this thread by ATS'ers, hate-speech against minorities
should be declared unlawful and enforced with punishment. But in this instance we are talking
about a man posting vile hateful stuff to a public forum about another man who is currently a
public object of sympathy and compassion. So here I think we are reacting with our gut than
with our intellect.

So what about when a president stands up and declares an entire country of people "Evil"
as George Bush did? (Actually he declared ~three~ countries of people "evil") There were millions
of innocent and harmless humans slandered in that moment, but nobody restricted his speech.
And what about extremely skilled public speakers who have the ability to lead an entire nation to
commit genocide, or drive them to attempt to take-over the world?

I think free-speech should be a top-down issue nowadays. If you have some measure of fame
you should be careful what you say and how you say it. Two differently colored humans
standing in the street slandering each other out of ignorance should be less a cause for
concern than one leader of men inciting a country to war....

for the people who think this kind of behaviour in this thread is fine and free speech should be allowed
feel free to google "Bradford Riots" thats what happens when you let this kind of free speech loose in flashpoint areas

now unless you live with your head in the clouds or are completley oblivious to such racial tensions
such speech that has this kind of reaction should be made illegal

for all the "i will say what i want as i have freedom of speech"
you go into 1 of these racially tense areas and excercise your free speech against a minority/people who are diffrent from you
see how that goes for you


sorry to say but a few of the replies on this topic have been absolutley absurd in my eyes

maybe britain should go back to "if your not white bugger off home" but of course some ppl on here have never had to live through that so wont know what point im trying to make

It isn't just the UK it is the whole of the EU too.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org... this one is good to read about certain countries the USA bit is a good read.

it's simple really, like i pointed out in my other response. The fact that it became a public outcry issue made the punishment more severe because of the fact that it changed from " what is the best punishment, as the law dictates, for this behaviour" to " we have 2 million people banging on our door demanding action, so what is the best punishment we can put in place to appease the masses and make ourselves look good and make the masses happy and end the situation". So i can see why he got 56 days in jail ( and yes probably will serve much less), its not really the punishment for the crime, it's more of a "what is the best action for the situation as a whole".

If he went up to Muamba in the street, after he comes out of hospital, and said those things and Muamba reported it to police the outcome and punishment would have been totally different. The issue itself grew from a racist issue to a racist+public outcry issue, the same incident would have had 2 different outcomes, but it's based upon how much of an outcry the thing creates.

End of the day, if we are going to have 100% free speech then it means the absolute idiots and brain dead people are going to say stupid and uneducated things, that's the saddest part about all this, that we always get reminded just how stupid some people really are. To actually type your thoughts out and post them on a social media site. What i do hate is the ,"you can say whatever you want, but as longs as we agree with it or dont get offended by it" we can't have it both ways, people are either free to partake in 100% free speech or people stop believing the hype that we are actually free to say what we want, because in reality we are not, we can only say what we want as long as it falls within the tramlines of common and general acceptance.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by YipMan
the uk is a racial tinderbox that just needs the 1 slightest spark for all kinds of riots and backlashes to fire up
the goverment and police are fully aware of this

Meanwhile...

Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed after judge hears 'they weren't used to drinking because they're Muslims'

A gang of Muslim women who attacked a passer-by in a city centre walked free from court after a judge heard they were ‘not used to being drunk’ because of their religion.

The group – three sisters and a cousin – allegedly screamed ‘kill the white slag’ as they set upon Rhea Page as she waited for a taxi with her boyfriend.

Miss Page, 22, was left with a bald patch where her hair was pulled out in the attack and was left ‘black and blue’ after suffering a flurry of kicks to the head, back, arms and legs while motionless on the pavement.

Daily Mail

So racist tweets by a white person towards a black football player warrants 56 days in Jail, while an attack by a gang of Somalis shouting 'kill the white slag' warrnants suspended jail terms?

you are falling into the oldest trap in the world my friend

its NOT about white and black

the sooner people realise this the sooner we will all get along as Human Beings not "blacks/Whites/Chinese/Etc"

Originally posted by YipMan
the uk is a racial tinderbox that just needs the 1 slightest spark for all kinds of riots and backlashes to fire up
the goverment and police are fully aware of this
if they did nothing about this kid and his racial outburst they risked more racial hatred exploding

Actually you're wrong on two counts.

1) The UK is a racial tinderbox, you're right. But what's more dangerous than angering non-whites and anti-racist campaigners is angering the average indigenous Englishman who is feeling increasingly disillusioned with the state of his/her homeland. Believe it or not, there are millions of us who do believe in liberty and that England should be a land of liberty. We are being pushed too far and when OUR backlash happens it will be far bigger than the one from ethnic minorities (and I can't promise everyone will direct their anger at those who deserve it - the politicians).

“It was not part of their blood, it came to them very late, with long arrears to make good, when the Saxon began to hate.

They were not easily moved, they were icy – willing to wait til every count should be proved, ere the Saxon began to hate.

Their voices were even and low. Their eyes were level and straight. There was neither sign nor show, when the Saxon began to hate.

It was not preached to the crowd. It was not taught by the state. No man spoke it aloud when the Saxon began to hate.

It was not suddenly bred. It will not swiftly abate. Through the chilled years ahead, when time shall count from the date that the Saxon began to hate.

Rudyard Kipling

Originally posted by YipMan
and at the end of the day regardless of ones stance on racism/free speech
the kid broke a law
its not up for debate as law is the law regardless if myself or anybody else agrees with it
we do not make the laws but we have to abide by them regardless of if we agree with them or not

2) No this is not the law. The Common LAW of England is that you must not cause someone (physical) harm, loss or injury. Everything else comes in the form of Statutes which are only applicable when given the consent of the governed. They are not laws, and this so-called 'law' which has imprisoned a man for speaking words is a treasonous misuse of English law.

reply to post by Cythraul


Looks lawful to me.

en.wikipedia.org...

It looks as if someone has read 1984 and has mistaken it for an instruction manual rather than a warning.

reply to post by rival


free speech is a tool to express your views ...why people need to use a complete racist idiot for defending free speech is slight;y disturbing..

use free speech where it matters ..not for degrading its own self worth

common decency should prevail ...i'm all for free speech but been racist for the sake of been racist, to offend, belittle victimize that's not free speech in the true sense in which it was established ...

.the twitter idiot broke uk laws and is now behind bars ...

case closed

Originally posted by YipMan
you are falling into the oldest trap in the world my friend

its NOT about white and black

the sooner people realise this the sooner we will all get along as Human Beings not "blacks/Whites/Chinese/Etc"

A white person's drunken racist tweets gets him 56 days in jail.

A physical attack by a gang of Somali's shouting 'kill the white slag' warrants a suspended sentence.

Where is the justice?






Daily Mail

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by YipMan
you are falling into the oldest trap in the world my friend

its NOT about white and black

the sooner people realise this the sooner we will all get along as Human Beings not "blacks/Whites/Chinese/Etc"

A white person's drunken racist tweets gets him 56 days in jail.

A physical attack by a gang of Somali's shouting 'kill the white slag' warrants a suspended sentence.

Where is the justice?

edit on 28-3-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

i do not make the laws nor sadly do i enforce them im not saying your point about this case is wrong but its down to the judges to uphold/enforce the laws as each case comes up

my point is i try not to see people as "oh he or shes white or he or she is black or whatever"

i would rather see people for the deeds they do and there attitudes towards there fellow humans

sadly untill the common man gets a say in how this country works these things will allways happen
is it right?no its not but we cannot change the outcome sadly