Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

Originally posted by Autumnal
Ummm...that post is in response to your post ending in
Again I will ask when you ever gave me your qualifications.

This post is where you accused me of being a fake police officer.

This post tells me you read the entire thread.

The fact you accused me of being fake tells me you are aware I am an officer.
Stating you read the entire threads says you read the posts where my background came up.

Hope that clarifies the confusion.

Originally posted by Autumnal
This was your lecture on forensics that I laughed at. It had nothing to do with the cpps following proper procedure. The next time you are not sure what I am responding to, click on the link at the top of the post.

Please show us what proper procedure is and link to the source.

What part of the forensic questions I asked did you find humorous and why?

What actions did the police take that violated forensic standards, laws on evidence collection and handling etc etc etc.

Thank you.

reply to post by cdesigns


His father lived there, and he was living with his father. Hisssss father. Not a friend! He was living in his families house. He lived with his dad. Lol soooooo when i was living at HoME with my mom when i was growing up. Still in high school. And i stayed at my dads house on the weekends. I really had two HOMES. I had a room at each house. A key to the doors and responsibilities at both also. My parents were divorced. I lived at both homes.

Now your saying his dad house was not his home. Well wasnt he living there?!? I mean he was living there right.

Oh and he can walk where ever he wanted to. As long as its not private property, or restricted otherwise. There was nothing wrong with him walking through where ever, talking on the phone to his girlfriend on his way to HIS house.

He just didnt expect to be ran up on by zimmerman.

It cost him his life though.

The wasnt doing anything wrong besides being a kid.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Wow.

So zimmerman could actually beat this?

I wonder if this would open the door to future murders like this?

Doing what zimmerman did is not hard to pull off, i think.

Im not being a smart azz either. Just wondering how to defend against future zimmermans should i run into one!

What can one do. If they are walking and get approached like this. I guess it boils down to who can draw their pistol the fastest.

reply to post by PLASIFISK


Martin did not live with his father but actually his mother. He was at his dads fiance's place visiting.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Ohhhh. Ok.

So with that being his dads fiances house, does it give him legal reason for being in the neighborhood?

Legitimate question. Just wondering.

Some on here say he had no reason for being in that neighborhood.

In addition to that. Lets say i was walking through my dads fiances neighborhood and the police stopped me. Whats the chances of me saying to them " sir, im staying at address ******, my dads fiance lives there" result in me not getting my azz wooped?!

And did he rightfully owe that answer to zimmerman, and under what authority?

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Ohhhh. Ok.

So with that being his dads fiances house, does it give him legal reason for being in the neighborhood?

Legitimate question. Just wondering.

Some on here say he had no reason for being in that neighborhood.

Had he not gotten himself suspended from school
he would of never been there OR have gotten
shot.. He would be in miami in school.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Wow.

So zimmerman could actually beat this?

He could and based on what has occured so far I would say its going to be highly probable. I feel thats the reason the Feds are going forward with their planning to charge him federally.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
I wonder if this would open the door to future murders like this?

This is not the first time Floridas SYG law has been controversial. It has been discussed with Florida officals that gang members have used that law to defend themselves from rival gang members.

The law is flawed and that is a primary reason states who adopted similar legislation left parts of Floridas law out of theirs.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Doing what zimmerman did is not hard to pull off, i think.

Thats just it.. We dont know for sure who did what just yet. There is always the possibility of a smoking gun albeit a very tiny one, but its there.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Im not being a smart azz either. Just wondering how to defend against future zimmermans should i run into one!

First and foremost check the laws of the state you live in. Defense laws are not the same and states have differing criteria (duty to retreat, no duty to retreat, stand your ground etc etc etc). Be familiar with them, understand how they affect your ability to defend yourself.

Knowledge is your best friend in these situations. My advice would be to avoid them all toegher. Items can be replaced, people cannot. The goal of these laws are 2 fold - To allow a person to defend themselves in a manner consistent with their rights and 2 to act as a deterent to criminal behavior. Its a license to kill essentially but only should be used as an asolute last resort.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
What can one do. If they are walking and get approached like this. I guess it boils down to who can draw their pistol the fastest.

Again check your states laws. In general
Its not against the law for a person to follow another person.
Its not against the law for a person to stop another to talk to them or even confront them.
Its not against the law for a person confronted to walk away.

A shootout serves no purpose and usually accomplishes what a person is trying to avoid - going to jail.

Exercise common sense, know your laws and go from there. Being a good witness though can sometimes go a lot farther than trying to be a hero.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Ohhhh. Ok.

So with that being his dads fiances house, does it give him legal reason for being in the neighborhood?

Absolutely... Contrary to popular belief (*check your state laws) a private gated neighborhood whose streets are maintained by the city cannot prevent a person from entering the area, even if they dont live there.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Legitimate question. Just wondering.

no worries.. ask away

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Some on here say he had no reason for being in that neighborhood.

He did... Again a person walking down the street is not breaking any laws. A person walking through a neighborhood is not against the law.

What made the issue was the lack of familiarity between Martin, who was visiting and did not live there, and Zimmerman, who paid attention to what was going on in his neighborhood in terms of criminal activity.

While I understand the dont belong argument, I dont care much for jumping off that slippery slope. A person is innocent until proven guilty. Its ok to be suspicious and to act on that (calling 911 to report a suspicious person) as well as being a good witness (noting behavior, clothing, items the person may have etc). A good witness who can testify in court that the person accused is the person they saw can go a lot farther than trying to perform an act they should not be doing.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
In addition to that. Lets say i was walking through my dads fiances neighborhood and the police stopped me. Whats the chances of me saying to them " sir, im staying at address ******, my dads fiance lives there" result in me not getting my azz wooped?!

If its a voluntary contact, IE the police just stopping to chit chat, you are under no obligation to speak with them (check the laws in your area). If you are in an area that is experiencing high criminal activity they can stop and ID based solely on your presence in that area (again check locla laws). If your appearence matches reports of possible suspects then they can stop and ID just to see whats going on.

Its not designed to harass people but to assist the public in protecting their property etc.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
And did he rightfully owe that answer to zimmerman, and under what authority?

edit on 16-5-2012 by PLASIFISK because: Just rememberd

Nope - Martin was under no obligations to speak with Zimmerman, answer any of his questions or even stay where he was at. Zimmerman is not a police officer and has no enforcement authority. There are a few exceptions to that and again it will vary from state to state (detaining an individual for a crime etc). I dont think this case was an exception though and wanted to point out not every situation is the same. Depending on factors present you can have any number of laws apply.

reply to post by PLASIFISK

What can one do. If they are walking and get approached like this. I guess it boils down to who can draw their pistol the fastest.

Here's something that works or me.
Behave like a person that is well adjusted to modern society and talk to them. Be polite.
I was walking across the parking lot outside my office two days ago when a strange car drove up the street very slowly, then turned into the parking lot and drove up very close to where I was standing. I had no idea what they were doing. I guess I could have got in their faces and asked them if they had a problem, but I was polite and asked them if I could help them. They needed directions, so I gave them detailed directions to the place that they were looking for. It was easy. I didn't get into a fight, no one was killed.

reply to post by popsmayhem


Huh?

Thats neither here or there.

Your trying to say there is a circumstance when to and when not to visit family.

Regardless if he was suspended from school, a weekend, or for what ever reason. He he got shot because zimmermqn shot him. Period.

Your saying if he wasnt suspended then he would not have been walking down the street. If he had not been walking down the street then zimmerman wouldnt have noticed him. If zimmerman wouldnt have noticed him, things wouldnt have transpired and he would be alive. Allll his fault right.

Right.

Welp his intent was to walk home from the store to his dads fiances house ( thanks ) thats all.

What was zimmermans intent? To get the bad guy! The big bad guy who had been breaking in houses. I guess he gottem didnt he.

Are trayvon's an issue or zimmerman's and issue?

I dont carry concealed because of trayvons..... I do however because of zimmermans. Im not worried to much about the teenager walking down the street carring skittles and tea. Even if my neighborhood had an alley i wouldnt be worried about it.

But, i do worry about the guy watching me from his window. The guy that might decide to act on his beliefes and engage me. The guy who might wanna follow me and get a lil to close to me or me and my family should we decided to take a night time stroll through the neighborhood.

Thats what worries me about this.

You would say, well if you hadnt worked hard all day, come home to your family and decided to take a calm relaxing walk, then you would be alive. You should have stayed in the house.


You mean i cant walk through my neighborhood without some crazy person walking up on me and possibly killing me.

Tisk tisk. Nope. Wont be my fault either if i kill him. Butterfly effect works both ways.

For those discussing the wanna be thug angle -

Trayvon suspended THREE times for 'drugs, truancy, graffiti and carrying burglary tool' and did he attack bus driver too? New picture emerges of victim as parents claim it's all a smear

The site says Trayvon went by the Twitter handle NO_LIMIT_N***A.

A few of the messages make reference to using drugs including one that says: 'Finna (I'm fixing to) smoke 1 wit my dawg wayne.'

'PLZZ EXERCISE YO RIGHT 2 REMAIN SILENT.. DAM,' he says.

Another says: '2 glock 40's... b**** you got 80 problems.'

Lol so daisha think she a boss cuz she walkd in class late 2day.... i do that everyday

Sum stuff u jus gotta tak 2 da grav w/ u

Early release 2day. No skool 2maro >>>>>>>>>>

It can go either way and will depend on the individual persons perception. Personally speaking I tend to agree with tthe wanna be thug mentality. IF he subscribed to that lifestyle then one can argue he was not going to back down with Zimmerman and very well may show him who is "boss" so to speak.

People chastized Zimmerman for not listening to the 911 dispatcher.
Martin did the same by ignoring his girlfriend.

Adding a female to the mix will make some people act in a more macho way so as not to appear weak.

Food for thought

reply to post by butcherguy


Thats understandable. I mean i dont think tray was doing kartwheels down the street. What was not normal about his walking home. Some say he acted strangly. How so?

Im a nice, approachable person, but come on now. There are some crazy peopleout there.

I will always be on the side of caution.

If im being followed, and im un armed, im calling the police or somebody. I would assume the follower is armed and make every attempt to avoid contact. And im grown.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Wow.

So trays girlfriend told him to break contact and the police told zimmerman not to follow.

Classic when worlds collide.

It became a recipe for disaster when the gun came into play.

Smh.

reply to post by butcherguy

Behave like a person that is well adjusted to modern society and talk to them. Be polite.

It would appear that TM was doing exactly that, it was GZ that decided to be the unadjusted human being in modern society.

Im taking it that only applies to TM, correct? that whole being polite thing?

GZ father went on Hannity and said that TM approached GZ and said 'why you following me/do you have a problem'. George said 'No, I don't have a problem' and reached for his cell phone.

Where were GZ manners that night, im curious? I mean he did have a problem with TM, I think we can all agree, right? Why wouldn't GZ be polite and say 'Hello, young man. I am George Zimmerman. I am captain of the neighborhood watch program for this neighborhood. Ive just reported you to the police for being suspicious in my neighborhood. Now, young man could I hold your hand to your destination?'

Where were GZ polite manners? He is a 28 year old concealed weapon carrying, criminal justice degree having, neighborhood watch captain. I guess politeness only applies to everyone BUT GZ.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Wow.

So trays girlfriend told him to break contact and the police told zimmerman not to follow.

Classic when worlds collide.

It became a recipe for disaster when the gun came into play.

Smh.

Its screwed up.... the entire mess...

However, Trayvon was under the exact same obligations Zimmerman was under when told to not follow / leave, which is to say they arent under any obligations to follow those commands from those 2 people.

Originally posted by fbluth
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Behave like a person that is well adjusted to modern society and talk to them. Be polite.

It would appear that TM was doing exactly that, it was GZ that decided to be the unadjusted human being in modern society.

Im taking it that only applies to TM, correct? that whole being polite thing?

GZ father went on Hannity and said that TM approached GZ and said 'why you following me/do you have a problem'. George said 'No, I don't have a problem' and reached for his cell phone.

Where were GZ manners that night, im curious? I mean he did have a problem with TM, I think we can all agree, right? Why wouldn't GZ be polite and say 'Hello, young man. I am George Zimmerman. I am captain of the neighborhood watch program for this neighborhood. Ive just reported you to the police for being suspicious in my neighborhood. Now, young man could I hold your hand to your destination?'

Where were GZ polite manners? He is a 28 year old concealed weapon carrying, criminal justice degree having, neighborhood watch captain. I guess politeness only applies to everyone BUT GZ.

You said a while back that you were going to ignore me. Oh well, all good things must end, I suppose.

The poster that I was responding to asked what to do when followed and questioned by someone in public. I gave my way of doing things, which has worked out nicely for me.

You are putting words in my mouth if you think I said that only Trayvon should have been polite that evening. In that post I didn't say what either of them should have done.

But if you want to know, I think this would have ended much better if they had both been polite to each other that evening.

reply to post by butcherguy


You again assume that TM wasn't polite. Dee Dee said he asked why he was being followed, GZ father said TM asked why he was being followed. What was TM supposed to do? Was it the fact he didn't say, Sir, why are you following me?

Ive read your post, I know how you feel about this case, I did respond to you because you were indicating that TM wasn't polite that night. I argue that asking 'why are you following me' to someone following you is being pretty darn polite. It seems you disagree and think TM should have been even more polite.......he asked why he was being followed,.....how could he have been more polite?

reply to post by fbluth


Really? Well the interview I heard from the father was way different than deedee's version. That's the only interview video I have seen, care to link to the other one?



This is the one I saw.
His father says "He asked my son if he had a problem. George said no I don't have a problem. Trayvon said you do now, then punched him in the face."
FF to about the 6 minute mark if you want to hear it for yourself.

reply to post by PLASIFISK

If im being followed, and im un armed, im calling the police or somebody. I would assume the follower is armed and make every attempt to avoid contact. And im grown.

Okay. I usually don't usually feel that way. I have been apprehensive in some situations, but never to the point where I had to call the police. I guess I see too much good in people. Lately, I have mostly been unarmed in my day to day life. I used to carry all the time, but I never had to use it. I carried for over twenty years.

Doctor's report now leaked, Zimmerman was on Temazepam and Adderall, both can affect vision, increase agitation and aggression.

BTW, one thing bothers me about Zimmerman, why does his father, who is white, go so overboard to point out that his son is Latino? Does he disavow his own son's connection back to himself?