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Nearly 1,000 Pakistan women 'killed for honour'

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posted on Mar, 23 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by nusnus
 




Coming to the beating part. The Maximum a man can do if his wife is being disloyal to him (cheating for example) is leaving her alone at night in her bed, if that doesn't stop the behavior, he has a right to beat her, but not on her face, and not in a manner that would abuse her physically. We are taught that this is preferable to outright divorcing someone and ruining their life and marriage. If that doesn't work, he divorces her. As you can see, there are levels of treatment.

This doesn't bother me one bit. Why? because first of all I know the man I choose to marry will know exactly what to do if I cheat on him. He knows the boundaries set by God. If he goes out of those boundaries, he will pay for it in the hereafter severely.



So your saying that this whole thing got started and is kept in place as an ultimatum to divorce and of expecting acceptances to the rule. So then this would just be a preference to the females in those parts of the world and cultures and religions there in therefore, which will make this whole thing other then the abusing of such contracts a non issue. Just a different lifestyle choice like so many others have so chosen.

But it still leaves things open to interpretations and abuses, which again is just a cultural difference and ultimately a choice, I would take it some women would rather take a bit of a beating then face divorce, and some would take divorce over any sort of beating or hitting any day of the week. A non issue, an extrapolating choice that is not taken in measure but by those who do.




And a lot of women would prefer to be beaten on the buttocks a little then outright divorced. Well, if they prefer the latter than they're not very sane in my opinion.


A matter of opinion and choice. Just another system put in place to hold in place the peculiarities and natures of the peoples in question. A non issue but to those who chose to live this way, for I suppose you cant have the nice regularities without the bad regularities. And the bad aspects seems to be what the op is talking about, But still there is a long and far stretch going from a honor beating, to a honor killing.

In the end it just seems to be and come down to definitions of punishment between cultures and ways of life, and in that it's just a matter of picking your poison then coming to terms with it, after which its just a matter swallowing it till you build and immunity to it.




posted on Mar, 23 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by nusnus
 




You don't think I wasn't faced with Muslims who told me outright to my face that I wasn't a 'good' Muslim simply because I didn't fit into their 'expectations'? You don't think they judged me simply because I wasn't covering my hair in a certain way (a lot of countries have their own version of hair cover and some of them are so ignorant they think hey, if you don't cover like this then you're not a Muslim)

You don't think I came across men who thought they could take me down by simply stating hadith that worked for them but left out the ones that worked for me? Oh I've been facing them all my life. And I'm so sick and tired of it I choose to stay away from the extreme ones who think its all about the looks and the constant praying and vigilante judging of others. All the while forgetting that God also requires them to educate themselves, to read a book occasionally, maybe enlighten their minds with something beyond the daily repetition of the same sentences that turns into a kind of brainwashing technique.


Arguing about fashion statements, and who is more pious and religious in his neighbors eyes is a sure fire way to stroke this god you all seem to follows ire. And I have been observant and told that the Abrahamic god is also a jealous god. No matter which peculiar translation it is transcribed to, that seems to remain a constant trait.
Not very godlike in my opinion, but hey to each there own. In fact i think they deserve such a god.

But rely you say that some believe that a certain way you cover your head is an indictment to your faith and god's cosmic law or some such, or at least some seem to think so.


Ya I think your right, they might want to educate themselves with other things least this whole religion thing turn into a fashion statement, a long and prolonged statement over many generations, but still..In the end there fighting over fashion statements and interpretations that there neighbors have. Who's hat is more holy before the eyes of god, but really its just who's hat is more preferable before there eyes and there peers.



posted on Mar, 23 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by nusnus
 

Very well what solution does Islam give the western world about Islamic aggression,now.Your revenge for prior acts by our corrupt leaders or others above them is proving to be fatal.
This isn't just a tit for tat exchange business as usual.We do not want to do any of this, but the responses to attacks are almost automatic and very messy.
Expose the training camps and stop the Wahabist factions before this reaches critical mass.Oil is losing popularity.When the world moves on the middle east will be left to stew in it's own juices.


Your right dude this whole thing is just a tit for tat automated response to age old reverberations that echo on and on down the ages. But before going all "cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war" on anybody, and bombing anything back into the stone age there might as well be attempts at reconciliations.

In fact they got bigger things to worry about coming down the line in futures past as will other certain places...There age old enemy, the one that shapes them even there believes and religious that they think are created by them fully...That right, sand, lots and lots of sand a desert wasteland.

And oil to will one day lose popularity like every other thing they have fought for in the past so far, it almost becomes a non issue or caricature when its time is up, and looking back in hindsight to what our forefathers fought for leaves us asking...WTF were they smoking, because it's some strong #.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by sapien82
 



I think the Western world has lost sight of what COMMITMENT in marriage means.

And, that LOVE IS PRIMARILY A CHOICE.

The satanic globalist oligarchy has propagandizes soooo successfully the notion that

IF IT FEELS GOOD, DO IT--PREFERABLY NOW--AND HANG THE CONSEQUENCES.

And the current norm of: if it no longer feels good, abandon everything and everyone and search ever again for the greener grass on the other side of the fence is as destructive to individuals, families and society as the globalists intended it to be.

And, in our Western INDIVIDUAL = GOD mentality and culture . . . there's little left of the family and community helping couples work things out regardless.

Nevertheless, murdering one's own children in a pique of pride and arrogant !CONTROL! freakism is NOT righteous, not sensible and not wise. SATANIC BLOOD-THIRSTY Tyranny is not kind to living things--REGARDLESS of who it's in the name of.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 07:20 AM
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reply to post by Copperflower
 



That latter case sounds like a particular kind of brain anyeurism or brain damage of some kind--possibly even a tumor pressing on key neural connections sufficiently to push the woman over the edge in that kind of way. I don't remember the particular brain section that such ideations and behaviors implicate but it's a well known phenomena.

The alternate explanation is the woman suddenly became demonized to an extreme. That's not so plausible given the other givens. The brain damage thing is the most plausible.

Muslim fathers murdering their children with the encouragement of their RELIGIOUS leaders, cheered on by their RELIGIOUS community . . . that may involve demonic forces but that is not a case of sudden and inexplicable demonization either.

BTW, I realize I'm way behind on this thread. Not sure when I'll get caught up. A rather full plate the next week or so--if I'm responsible to even half the priorities--LOL . . . 'Lord willin' and the Creek don't rise up,' I'll try and keep chipping away at it. Thanks to the contributors for making it a lively thread. May we all learn something.
.
.


edit on 24/3/2012 by BO XIAN because: an addition



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by ImaMuslim
What you're not seeing here is that, no matter if the country is muslim or not these problems will occur,


WRONG.

"THESE PROBLEMS" do not occur. The closest to it is occasional stuff with Hindu's. The demonized RELIGIOUS mentality there is similar.

No culture and no RELIGION come close to the frequency of such killings as those manifested in ISLAM.

This is but another example:

www.memritv.org...



#3377 - Egyptian Cleric Muhammad Hussein Yaaqub Calls for the Implementation of Islamic Punishments in Egypt: Execution, Crucifixion, and the Amputation of Opposite Hands and Feet
Al-Nas TV (Egypt) - March 16, 2012 - 02:07


You may note that it was not the local police captain.

It was not the local newspaper chief.

It was not the local head grocer.

It was not the local head of university.

It was not the local chief sheep butcher.

It was not the local brick laying foreman

It was not the local chief street sweeper.

It was not the local Master weaver.

It was not the local head mechanic.

It was not the local head barber.

It was not the local leading atheist.

It was not the local leading Christian.

It was not the local leading Jew.

It was not the local leading Hindu.

It was not the local leading Buddhist.

It was the local

[size=+3][color=99CC66]MUSLIM CLERIC!.

who so stridently CALLED FOR

[size=+][color=99CC66]the Implementation of
.
[size=+2][color=FF0000]Islamic
.
[size=+2][color=99CC66]Punishments
in Egypt: [i.e.]
[size=+1][color=99CC66][Islamic] Execution,
[size=+1][color=99CC66][Islamic] Crucifixion
[size=+1][color=99CC66]and the [Islamic] Amputation of Opposite Hands and Feet

Soooo what's the rationalization now?

--Oh, that cleric was passing gaseous rare nonsense. He's a rare exception.





We read of such virtually weekly or more often.



so please do not try to put the blame on "islam", one muslim does not represent islam,


We don't NEED to "blame" Islam.

Islam blames itself, incrimminates itself with such ROUTINE HORRIFIC BLOOD THIRSTY CUSTOMS, DOGMAS, BELIEFS AND PRACTICES!



the Scriptures ( the Koran ) and the Sunnah ( teachings of Muhammed ( peace be upon him) represent Islam. So please try to find texts in the Koran or the Sunnah that justifies the actions of "honour killings" and then tell me that the problem is islam.


Gimme a break.

ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS leaders and The RELIGION of ISLAM govern, sway, influence, lead, defines, propagate, propagandize; applaud; cheer . . .

[size=+1][color=99CC66]SUCH BRUTAL BLOOD LUST MAYHEM, VIOLENCE, MURDER
.
[size=+2][color=99CC66]in the NAME OF Allah;
.
[size=+2][color=99CC66]in the NAME OF Mohammed;
.
[size=+2][color=99CC66]in the NAME OF Islamic Righteousness;
.
[size=+1][color=99CC66]in the NAME OF Islamic sanctity and values.

It does so happen that there ARE sufficient violent exhortations and urgings in the founding documents to justify such Imam led blood lust day in and day out.



As I see it, the number of Pakistanis killed by US drones are far more than what's killed by "honour",


Oh, Cute.

Soooooooooo please tell us what RELIGIOUS practice, dogma, ideology are the drones a common part of?

Where's the Priestly Order of Drone Attacks?

Where's the RELIGIOUS ditty about "Hail Mary Full of Drones?"



since you haven't read about the honour in the killing and how it's justified, I hesitate to believe that you know what you're talking about.


Uhhhhhhhhhhh . . . WHEN there

[size=+1][color=99CC66]IS
[size=+1][color=99CC66]so much as a microscopic shred of
[size=+1][color=99CC66]TRUE HONOR
[size=+1][color=99CC66]involved in such murderous mayhem

maybe I'll consider noting it.

From here, it looks like RELIGIOUSLY bred, fostered, urged, whipped up, mob-mentality RELIGIOUS DUTY idiocy.

Islam is saturated with such bloodiness. Pretending otherwise is far from honest--though I realize that honesty is not required of Islam in contentions with 'infidels.'
.
.


edit on 24/3/2012 by BO XIAN because: fix parameters

edit on 24/3/2012 by BO XIAN because: ditto



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by ImaMuslim
 





Who says that these "honour killings" are not better for the community?


Cue guffaw gif

[color=66CCFF]And the reverberations of violence and vengeance never end.



I highly doubt it's the way you understand it. Let's say for example that I killed someone and the family of the victim wants justice. What are they suppose to do? According to Islamic laws they have a few options, forgive him, take ransom, or order him to be executed. The forgiver is the best of them. Now if they order me to be killed, then it's an "honour kill" which is the way it's suppose to be.


Even though I find authentic Christian values and practices greatly better . . .

IF

there were an authentic jury driven process of one's peers . . . judging such . . . in a truly fair, objective, etc. process . . . it would be greatly more acceptable, to me

than this

RELIGIOUS FERVER SATURATED MOB MENTALITY that obviously seems to lead the vast majority (98%?) of such cases.

Most of the time it seems quite evident that it's masculine insecurity driven RELIGIOUS SATURATED ARROGANCE and vengeance blood lust that drives such actions



Western laws are corrupt


And such bloody mayhem is NOT corrupt at it's foundation?

Cue guffaw gif

Sheesh.



and incapable of adapting the Islamic laws,


I hope so. Praise God Almighty for that.



If we do not kill the killers they will only kill more, Jail isn't going to help. Have you ever seen it help, does it help in most cases?


That's a whole different issue. I'm not against capital punishment where fitting. And AFTER AN OBJECTIVE, FAIR, PROPER JURIED PROCESS.



I think America is the best example of, economical corruption, maffia rule, public propaganda and mass slaughtering of humans.


OK, plenty of a serious problem whether we're the worst or not.

HOWEVER, hotshot,

WHERE is there a

--RELIGIOUS DUTY TO ECONOMIC CORRUPTION?
--RELIGIOUS DUTY to Allah or God or Mary for mafia rule?
--RELIGIOUS DUTY of destructive public propaganda?
--RELIGIOUS DUTY of mass slaughters?

Oh, I suppose we could say that the satan worshiping Marxist globalist oligarchy were doing their hideousness as an act of worship to satan. I could agree with that.

But I don't think you were talking about that.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by galadofwarthethird

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird

But it still leaves things open to interpretations and abuses, which again is just a cultural difference and ultimately a choice, I would take it some women would rather take a bit of a beating then face divorce, and some would take divorce over any sort of beating or hitting any day of the week. A non issue, an extrapolating choice that is not taken in measure but by those who do.


It does not leave things open to interpretation or abuse if you take the entirety of the teachings and use them in accordance with each other. You would in time learn the gist of the spiritual path that is Islam and feel compelled to give due credit to all of it. From its merciful side, to the allowances, to the outright 'terroristic' things like cutting off the hands of a thief. But if you take a specific allowance lets say, the beating one I was referring to, and use it like its the one and ONLY thing to live by, you can and will most likely abuse it. Because your lack of understanding of the rest of the teachings, or your preference to fullfil your own ego, will likely cause an imbalance in the way you practice the path. You are then, not moderate in any way, as the path suggests you SHOULD BE, but you are veering and touting around extremism, which is something Islam is against in its entirety.

That is why a man once said, that he prefers someone who doesn't know his religion at all, to a man who knows it half way. This was evident in the behavior of Al-Qaeda members who were caught guilty of bombing a bank in Istanbul, they were asked if they knew how to read the Quran, and their answer was a big fat NO.

One feels compelled to ask, how can you defend something you don't even know how to read? or something you haven't even read fully? One may ask the same of those clerics who find it incumbent upon themselves to throw fatwas left and right when they themselves ignore the core principles in their daily doings. Such is the ignorance of our times though and this ignorance needs to be criticized, nay, fought against with everything that makes sense because its doing a lot of people harm and injustice.
edit on 24-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


This cleric you're talking about, if he even remotely suggested crucifixion, I would question his entire understanding and knowledge of Islam since crucifixion is no where near allowed in any of the teachings. A big fat WTF is in order.

As for the rest of them, Islam only allows for punishment within boundaries. It does not allow for mass murderous mayhem of taking justice into ones own hands, killing off family members who were guilty of murder for example, or something as deplorable as honor killing. Which by the way is such BS I cannot begin to understand why anyone would think it has to do with religion when its all about family pride and ego. The most a Muslim can do is go to court, complain and have a public trial in which the judge passes sentence onto the person who is complained upon. And with most cases of adultery and what not, they have to find 3 eye witnesses, or the persons own admittance.

Again, ignorance at its best. The Prophets cousin and son in law, Ali was reported to have faced a man at war, who spit in his face right before Ali plunged his sword in him. Once the latter was done, Ali stopped in his tracks and let the man go. The man not understanding why Ali would do this, asked him to explain himself to which Ali replied: "I was going to take your life for God's sake, but after you spit on my face, I could not guarantee that I wouldn't do it for my own sake. So I chose to let you go"

edit on 24-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by nusnus
 
Demented,religiously warped muslim extremists "want" to do the same evil things they've done to these women to just about every man,woman and child in the usa and if they could,they would and so thats why they must be ruthlessly eliminated before their ever able to.Remember when the muslims were jumping up and down laughing and screaming in the streets when they found out about 911? Well i would have ordered mass air strikes against them just for doing that...



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by blocula
 


Look, my way of dealing with religious zealotry is a bit different than yours. I like to nurture, to educate and to facilitate the growth of culture, its different voices and its colorful ways. I adhere to a way of life that decides to use its power to shine into the darkness instead of trying to eliminate the darkness like its some sort of an entity, because to me it isn't. Darkness isn't some force or thing, its the lack of light and goodness so to speak.

While some of those ignorant muslims did rejoice, some, such as myself and my family, were in shock and awe at the horrifying nature of what was 9/11.

I remember very well exactly where we were and what time of the day it was, we were driving altogether in my moms car in Istanbul and heard it on the radio. When we got home, we turned on the TV and just stared at it for hours to come in utter disbelief.

I've completely removed friends from my life who still think that a man can dive himself into a building and die for the cause of God. Nothing is more twisted and ignorant. But again, war is not the answer, it may destroy the people you speak of, but it also destroys the good those people have been doing on the side, and sends them back into the stone ages. In the long run, this is a worse situation for all of us.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by h_jordan
i am a middle eastern Ex-Muslim, i am telling you facts, this is not my opinion, Islam has nothing to do with the honor killings, it is a cultural thing, tribes in Arabia did it in pre-Islamic era, some of them buried their new born daughters so they won't be able to dishonor their parents when they grow up, Islam wasn't present yet, Islam considered this act forbidden, the punishments of adultery are very clear in Islam, and it applies to both adulteress and adulterer, honor killing is a cultural thing not an Islamic law.

whoever sees otherwise please bring the verse from Quran or a Hadeeth of Mohammad that disputes what i just said
Are there any muslim women torturing and burying alive muslim men? I doubt it.I suppose it only works one way,men controlling and dominating and murdering women...
edit on 24-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by Malynn
 
I'm assuming this has'nt happened to you,but if you had two teenage daughters dragged away by muslim men and then raped,tortured and buried alive,you would probably be singing a different tune and you would most likely be screaming for vengeance against them...


edit on 24-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by BO XIAN
 


This cleric you're talking about, if he even remotely suggested crucifixion, I would question his entire understanding and knowledge of Islam since crucifixion is no where near allowed in any of the teachings. A big fat WTF is in order.


I respect you and your experiences and perspective.

However . . . . I also have to consider other realities.

The numbers of Muslims cheering such clerics and such pronouncements on . . .

is more than a little evidence that such are values DEEPLY ENGRAINED IN AND CAST IN the words, memes, values, behaviors, principles, LEADERSHIP PONTIFICATIONS OF . . .

Islam.

It is not tribal animists spouting such stuff in the deep jungles.

It is Muslim leaders screaming such stuff in MUSLIM worship centers, Muslim schools and Muslim media.



As for the rest of them, Islam only allows for punishment within boundaries. It does not allow for mass murderous mayhem of taking justice into ones own hands, killing off family members who were guilty of murder for example, or something as deplorable as honor killing. Which by the way is such BS I cannot begin to understand why anyone would think it has to do with religion when its all about family pride and ego.


Wellllllllllll, from where I sit . . . from where my formerly Muslim roommate sat with all his extensive study of Islam; and from where so many of my Western observer cohorts sit . . .

". . . does not allow for . . ."

are just very hollow and even grossly untrue words.

The restraints on "does not allow for" must be weaker than a wet noodle in a hurricane.

Where are the clerics and Imams STRIDENTLY JUST AS LOUDLY and JUST AS FREQUENTLY and JUST AS PERVASIVELY

INSISTING that Islam "does not allow?"

They aren't there with very rare exceptions.

UNTIL THEY ARE THERE in anything close to comparable volume and frequency, I must conclude that your assertion "does not allow"

is a nice fantasy of very naive and sheltered Muslims who with great wishful thinking try valiantly to cast their beloved religion in the best light possible--regardless of how divorced from the realities that most of us observe in Islam.



The most a Muslim can do is go to court, complain and have a public trial in which the judge passes sentence onto the person who is complained upon. And with most cases of adultery and what not, they have to find 3 eye witnesses, or the persons own admittance.


Uhhhhhh no . . .

[color=66FF66]...CAN DO...

is simply NOT TRUE.

What they not only CAN DO--BUT REPEATEDLY DO FAR AND WIDE . . . with alarming frequency is

--bury their own children alive
--behead their own children
--engage in mob 'justice.'
--engage in the most barbaric and ruthless blood-letting
. . .
. . .

That's what they CAN do because they repeatedly DO IT--with the Imam's blessings, if not leadership in such activities.

Where are the ISLAMIC mobs working to STOP such mob 'justice?'
Where are the ISLAMIC LEADERS working to stop such barbarism?

Few and far between.

Evidently they either agree or are complicit out of their own fear for their own lives.





Again, ignorance at its best. The Prophets cousin and son in law, Ali was reported to have faced a man at war, who spit in his face right before Ali plunged his sword in him. Once the latter was done, Ali stopped in his tracks and let the man go. The man not understanding why Ali would do this, asked him to explain himself to which Ali replied: "I was going to take your life for God's sake, but after you spit on my face, I could not guarantee that I wouldn't do it for my own sake. So I chose to let you go"


That sounds quite admirable.

I'd think . . . were Islam routinely living up to THAT standard

such CURRENT examples of THAT STANDARD

would be flooding the media.

I don't observe that.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


This media you speak of, is beyond asinine within the continent of the US of A. I've never seen such a lacking perspective on human news anywhere. The BBC does a much more better job of it, infact, the British do a much more better job of reporting the facts than any of the US media conglomerates do. I have a lot of respect for the British, even though they do not like discussing the fact that they raped and pillaged the entire subcontinent of India for 200 years straight.

As for your giving credit where credit is due bit, do not think that I didn't notice, you having said that, only gave credit to outside Christian NGO's working in Pakistan. Which suggests only one thing to me, you have no idea about what the local NGO's are doing, or you know and ignore it. Sadly, Christian NGO's do not fare very well in extremely devout Muslim countries, because Muslims just don't like being helped under the pretense of help when the organization at hand obviously has far more ulterior motives like trying to spread their religion instead.

If you were truly sincere in helping these people, you'd do so not by the moves of a man who looks like he cares but secretly (or not so secretly), feels that he and his entire culture and religion are far more superior over them, but by the moves of a person who wants to help because he likes helping.
edit on 24-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Ameliaair
 


No they are not. Domestic abuse in the west is an individual criminal act, opposed by society in general, frowned upon and outlawed / prosecuted. Honor killings such as those in Pakistan are often collective acts, supported by society and not prosecuted, even embraced.

[color=3300FF]BIG difference.


(emphasis added)

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

Except that Islam includes in the founding documents the exhoration that lying is quite 'righteous,' in behalf of Islam, I'd be shocked that anyone could claim otherwise.

We have plenty of our own flaws in the West. But we're not all absolutely lobotomized idiots.




I find it funny finding that this thread was made one day after I refuted 'honor killings' arguments in another thread. Do you people get happy and feel self righteous if you can spread lies?

I posted on honor killings already so I will link you...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It should be noted in 1991 in Brazil there were more than 800 such honor killings by Christians.



as far as taqiyyah (religious dissimulation is the translation... NOT lying) is in Shi'a fiqh (Religious law in Shi'a Islam) this I do not believe is found in sunni Islam so much.

but the meaning is this;

"Concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions, and/or strategies at a time of eminent danger, to save oneself from physical and/or mental injury."

Authentic ahadith (which explains the meaning of the words of the Quran) on the topic are as follows;

أَبُو عَلِيٍّ الْأَشْعَرِيُّ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْجَبَّارِ عَنْ صَفْوَانَ عَنْ شُعَيْبٍ الْحَدَّادِ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مُسْلِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ إِنَّمَا جُعِلَتِ التَّقِيَّةُ لِيُحْقَنَ بِهَا الدَّمُ فَإِذَا بَلَغَ الدَّمَ فَلَيْسَ تَقِيَّةٌ

Abu Ja’far (as) who has said the following: “Al-Taqiyyah is made law to save lives. Once it (danger) is already there to take lives, then there is no al-Taqiyyah.”

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ ابْنِ فَضَّالٍ عَنِ ابْنِ بُكَيْرٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مُسْلِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ( عليه السلام ) قَالَ كُلَّمَا تَقَارَبَ هَذَا الْأَمْرُ كَانَ أَشَدَّ لِلتَّقِيَّةِ

abu ‘Abd Allah (as) who has said the following: “As it (time of Imam al-Mahdi) draws closer, al-Taqiyyah will be more intensely needed.” [because Shi'a will be in danger in this time]

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنِ ابْنِ أُذَيْنَةَ عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ الْجُعْفِيِّ وَ مُعَمَّرِ بْنِ يَحْيَى بْنِ سَامٍ وَ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ مُسْلِمٍ وَ زُرَارَةَ قَالُوا سَمِعْنَا أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ ( عليه السلام ) يَقُولُ التَّقِيَّةُ فِي كُلِّ شَيْ‏ءٍ يُضْطَرُّ إِلَيْهِ ابْنُ آدَمَ فَقَدْ أَحَلَّهُ اللَّهُ لَهُ

“We heard Abu Ja’far (as) saying, ‘Al-Taqiyyah is whenever the son of Adam is compelled; Allah has made it lawful for him.’”


Your thread is nothing but a Muslim bashing session, have you ever seen me bash Christians? No, because I have common sense, intelligence and rational mind. I do not blame all Christians for what happens to women in Brazil, I do not categorize all Christians with insane people who call themselves Christian. This is called using ones mind. I also do not speak on things before I have fully researched them which you apparently do not.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by BO XIAN
 


The BBC does a much more better job of it, infact, the British do a much more better job of reporting the facts than any of the US media conglomerates do. I have a lot of respect for the British, even though they do not like discussing the fact that they raped and pillaged the entire subcontinent of India for 200 years straight.


The Beeb didn't really start to become corrupt until 2001 or so, nusnus. They became very deferential to George W. Bush after 9/11. Australia still doesn't have cable everywhere, but we had it back then, and I used to like their news. They're not as good as the real independents, (Al Jazeera or RT) but they are still a bit better than the American media. The BBC ran a very widely available news radio service for a very long time on shortwave; it was available nearly all over the planet I think. I don't know whether they still run that or not.

My parents were Anglophiles, although my father isn't so much now. They both went to English boarding schools, so it would have been difficult for them not to be. I am not, however. I played a Horde character (my avatar here, Mirshalak) in World of Warcraft for roughly two and a half years, and that game caused me to become extremely disillusioned about European imperial culture. WoW also motivated me to do research into what colonialism had done to the indigenous groups, as the Horde were essentially depicted as a coalition of indigenous cultures that were able to fight back against European imperialism; a bit of an alternate universe historically, there.

My interest in Hinduism has caused me to learn something about what the British East India Company did to India, as well. I agree with you that it was unspeakable. The English did that to a lot of different cultures; France, Ireland, Scotland, India...several countries. The United Kingdom is not one in which all of its' subject countries are members of it voluntarily. There is still talk in Scotland of them getting their independence, and I hope they do. They were conquered; they did not join that union willingly.


If you were truly sincere in helping these people, you'd do so not by the moves of a man who looks like he cares but secretly (or not so secretly), feels that he and his entire culture and religion are far more superior over them, but by the moves of a person who wants to help because he likes helping.
edit on 24-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)


The Christians have been doing this in India, as well. They consider Hinduism demonic. The Indian government has apparently experienced quite a lot of atheistic subversion as well. The caste has been outlawed by the current Indian Constitution, and although it may seem odd, there are conflicting opinions about that being a good thing. Gandhi was actually an advocate of the caste; but as Manu dictated it, not as contemporary Indians (mis)interpreted it.
edit on 24-3-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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edit on 24-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-3-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Do you realize how many women are killed by their Husbands in the US anually?

You might want to check if your Glass House is stone proof.

Next Muslim Hating Thread in 5..4..3..2..1..
Muslim men,their kind of hard not to hate,when its realized that they rape,torture and bury alive women,even under age teenage girls again and again and those sickening acts are all backed up and supported by their culture,their leaders and their religion and they are malevolent and very evil...

Try and imagine yourself being buried alive...

The muslim guy who i work with tells me and everyone else very plainly and bluntly that The Main Goal Of Islam Is To Make Everyone On Earth A Muslim And Eliminate All Those Who Will Not Bow Down To Allah...

I expressed my dire warnings to western civilization a few posts back and what we need to do before its too late...
edit on 24-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by nusnus
reply to post by BO XIAN
 


This cleric you're talking about, if he even remotely suggested crucifixion, I would question his entire understanding and knowledge of Islam since crucifixion is no where near allowed in any of the teachings. A big fat WTF is in order.

As for the rest of them, Islam only allows for punishment within boundaries. It does not allow for mass murderous mayhem
Muslims do commit mass murder,slowly but surely,one sickening death at a time...



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