Nearly 1,000 Pakistan women 'killed for honour'

This is a disgusting and ignorant thread. I can't believe I read 9 pages of it. Well, it is a really slow day at work.

A lot of chest thumping and righteous indignation from people who have never visited a muslim country, let alone a middle eastern country. A lot of inflammatory statements from people who have not read the Qu'ran. Just so you know, digging up verses on the interwebz that suit your particular soapbox does not = reading the Qu'ran.

Without getting into the current hate & fear fest the corporate western media is currently promoting in regard to Islam: you're saying that Islam promotes murder to avoid embarassment. Blaming a religion for how idiots interpret it is a logical fallacy.

As has been mentioned ad nauseum by other informed posters, honor killings are a cultural relic, not a religious mandate. I'll give you a lolly-pop if you would be so kind as to point out the verse in the Qu'ran or the Hadiths where honor killing (murdering a family member to protect the family from shame) is approved. As I've actually read the Qu'ran and know this isn't possible, I will admit this is a rhetorical statement.

When the Judeo-Christian-Islamic cults argue amongst each other the hypocrisy is staggering. I suspect if you were to make a diagram comparing all the violent, ignorant, intolerant, and ridiculous things in all three holy-books it would pretty much be par for the course.

That being said, if I was going to base my life on the writings of 2,000 year old goat herders and texts stolen from earlier cultures I'd probably choose the Qu'ran. Out of the three holy books of these monotheistic religions I found the Qu'ran to be the most beautiful and in-line with how people should treat one another. Although the sermon on the mount had it's moments.

reply to post by nightbringr


Depending on where you come from, the older and more powerful women in the family usually start this. Since I come from the area and have actually lived there for most of my life I know exactly what I'm talking about.

One of my best friends is Pakistani, her entire family is considered among the 'Syed's meaning, they are direct descendants of the Prophet, and since Pakistanis inherited the same caste system that exists in India, they are not allowed to marry anyone outside the Syed clan. Although they wouldn't go so far as killing a person if they did, they would simply cut them off from inheritance and what not. But here's the interesting bit, her entire clan was controlled by the older grandmother in her family. Everybody had to live according to how she deemed fit. We used to make fun of granny by calling her female Hitler.

So you can see, if the old granny felt that their family's honor had been tainted beyond repair, she would be the one to order the cutting off of said person. In such societies, the rich do not murder their own, like I said they just cut them off and ostracize them completely. Whereas the poor, have nothing to use as a control point, so they resort to physical retaliation.

reply to post by nusnus


To me it's unimportant If it was the man or women who instigated the atrocity. In Canada, we recently dealt with the reprehensible Shafia killings of three beautiful young daughters and his first wife who just so happened to be infertile. Their crime? Acting western.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

The mans second wife was complicit, and the husband was caught on videotape explaining that they were whores and dishonored thier family and deserved it. He went so far as to claim if they came back to life 100 times, he would kill them 100 times over. Sickening.

reply to post by nightbringr


I thought this was all just our Middle Eastern problem until I came to the US and watched a show called: Till Death Do Us Part. Then I was like, we're all mucked up in our own way...how comforting /sarcasm

reply to post by Malynn


And on my trip to Egypt with my blonde haired, proud wife we saw the ugly side of their culture. She refused to cover her hair at the request of a guide and we were eyed suspiciously wherever we went. We carried on and but decided we had seen enough after being spit at twice. One man actually tried to grab my wifes hips, and after I pushed him away, our guide explained he told us she has good "child bearing hips". My wife is a person, not a child making machine.

And this is a supposedly moderate Muslim country?

reply to post by nightbringr


Sounds like a bad experience. When in another culture though you are going to get some of the "native flair". Unless you stay in the tourist areas. Let's face it, there's Jamaica, then there's Jamaica. There's Mexico and then there's Mexico. I wouldn't take one experience and cover all with it.

reply to post by nightbringr


Egypt is....weird, is how I'd describe it. They have extremely strange cultural phenomenon's like covered women working in bars and belly dancers dancing half nude at night, while covered fully during the day. They were soo much better during the early 1900s and 1950's but have gone drastically down hill afterwards. I mean have you seen the black and white movies they had back in the 50s'? not a single person is covered and what not, they had such a musical explosion with Omm Kulthoum and stuffs. Sometimes I feel like something drastic happened to the entirety of the Middle East between those years, and whatever culture and progress they had accumulated up until then, went downhill really really fast.

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by Malynn

 

And on my trip to Egypt with my blonde haired, proud wife we saw the ugly side of their culture. She refused to cover her hair at the request of a guide and we were eyed suspiciously wherever we went. We carried on and but decided we had seen enough after being spit at twice. One man actually tried to grab my wifes hips, and after I pushed him away, our guide explained he told us she has good "child bearing hips". My wife is a person, not a child making machine.

And this is a supposedly moderate Muslim country?

Yes, culture. If you can show me in the Qu'ran where these types of behaviors would be sanctioned then we can have a discussion about how that relates to Islam.

Verse Whatever: and you shall spit on the person of an infidel should they not cover their hair.
Verse Whatever 2: and you should have full rights to touch their person should their hips be exposed.

...you know. Something along those lines.

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by Malynn

 

And this is a supposedly moderate Muslim country?

Egypt is surely not a moderate muslim country. Egypt, Pakistan, Nigeria, Jordan and maybe a few other are countries with the most fundamentalist islamist population in the world, extremist even for middle-eastern standards.

reply to post by Malynn


I don't consider Sharia to be all that much spiritual or "religious", but it is a TOOL of NWO.

en.wikipedia.org...
History of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt (1939–1954)

www.educationnews.org...

In the 1920s, an Egyptian school teacher, Hassan al-Banna, gathered discontent Muslims to found the Muslim Brotherhood.

According to John Loftus, a former prosecutor with the US Justice Department, “Al-Banna formed this nationalist group called the Muslim Brotherhood. Al-Banna was a devout admirer of Adolf Hitler and wrote to him frequently.”

Loftus adds that Al-Banna was so persistent in his “admiration of the new Nazi Party that in the 1930s Al-Banna and the Muslim Brotherhood became a secret arm of Nazi Intelligence. With the goal of the Third Reich to develop the Muslim Brotherhood as an army inside Egypt.”

www.scribd.com...

Part of the Rise of the Fourth Reicht.

And currently CIA and black ops worldwide, for they're all following the same orders, are inciting riots in the middle east to pull off what they did to Iran years ago, replace moderate governments with Brotherhood.

Its this Fascism and Burka, reality that is responsible for the abuse and murders of women and children.

Its just obscene, and sponsored by the WEST PTB, they like Fascism. This is their baby.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
I'm aware of the other cultural examples.

However,

the percentages and numbers involved are

VASTLY DIFFERENT.

Even the Hindu's don't approach the Muslim numbers.

That is correct.

Muslims carry out 91% of honour killings world wide

Although Sikhs and Hindus do sometimes commit such murders, honor killings, both worldwide and in the West, are mainly Muslim-on-Muslim crimes. In this study, worldwide, 91 percent of perpetrators were Muslims. In North America, most killers (84 percent) were Muslims, with only a few Sikhs and even fewer Hindus perpetrating honor killings; in Europe, Muslims comprised an even larger majority at 96 percent while Sikhs were a tiny percentage. In Muslim countries, obviously almost all the perpetrators were Muslims. With only two exceptions, the victims were all members of the same religious group as their murderers.

www.meforum.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

to: navigation, search
Shirin Ebadi
شيرين عبادى
Shirin Ebadi (Persian: شيرين عبادى‎ Širin Ebādi; born 21 June 1947) is an Iranian lawyer, a former judge and human rights activist and founder of Defenders of Human Rights Center in Iran. On 10 October 2003, Ebadi was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for her significant and pioneering efforts for democracy and human rights, especially women's, children's, and refugee rights. She was the first ever Iranian, and the first Muslim woman to receive the prize.

In 2009, Ebadi's award was allegedly confiscated by Iranian authorities, though this was later denied by the Iranian government.[3] If true, she would be the first person in the history of the Nobel Prize whose award has been forcibly seized by state authorities.[4][5]

Ebadi lives in Tehran, but she has been in exile in the UK since June 2009 due to the increase in persecution of Iranian citizens who are critical of the current regime.[6] In 2004, she was listed by Forbes magazine as one of the "100 most powerful women in the world".[7] She is also included in a published list of the "100 most influential women of all time."[8]

This woman, nobel, awarded the nobel prize, had quite a lot to say about the situation in Iran and the takeover, when she had to step down as a judge, and suddenly women were worth less than a man, and people could have their hands cut off for thievery.

Sharia IS the part where the honor killings occur. Its the whole cultural mindset.

Whereas modern Islam, and open progressive countries are more like visiting Greece.


Conversations with History: Shirin Ebadi

reply to post by Unity_99


I don't disagree at all with your points about the hijacking and misinterpretation of religion for control, and its use as a tool by the men behind the curtain. The kool-aid drinking, MSM watching members of my family already whisper the word Muslim like it's synonymous with terrorist.

reply to post by Unity_99


I wouldn't blame anyone here if they were to sit and blame Sharia for all of this, for whatever its worth, what is being applied as sharia doesn't do justice to the system itself, but you wouldn't know that unless you read about it fully. But allow me to say that its a luxury to be able to blame someones religious background for their misgivings. But not all of us have this luxury.

Ive moved to the US a couple of years ago, and currently witness mainstream things like bullying, lack of respect for teachers and education, violence in schools that I've never seen in any Muslim country I've lived in. Not even Saudi Arabia comes this close, and I've spent 20 years of my life there. Not to mention the the weird cultural peer pressure to engage in sexual acts as early as elementary school. You know what I see everytime I turn on the TV? I see the following: food ads, drug ads, and useless entertainment. No wonder people are constantly eating, and are hooked on pain killers so much. I'd have to scour the channels to find anything of value to watch, and I'm seriously worried about the wellbeing of my future children if we decide to stay in the US in the long run. Because I know I wont be able to protect them from all of this even if I wanted to. So who do I blame this on? Where is my soft cushion to fall on?

reply to post by nusnus


I don't consider Sharia religion, it was a small radical backwards harsh sect that became a tool. The religion is something different, not fascism, not forced, but a comfort, tool that people use to help them in their lives.

I've read some really bad passages in the Quran. But I've also read some beautiful passages. The same could be said for other religions, including the Bible. Its how you live today that counts, as we are not as backwards as we were thousands of years ago, and there is human rights and equality and understanding, including mercy and physcology, understanding that first of all, laws are very tricky to endure as its the will of someone, enforced on others, which is slavery. However, there is a natural common law, that protects the person from rape and murder. Its natural because, if you lived in a land without laws, and murdered a good family, the whole village will rise against you.

So, out of common law, there are some virtues we should follow.

But the rest are very very tricky, no way should anyone be able to boss another person, if they're not directly in their face harming them and their household.

And this has to be established as world wide human rights.

When it comes to property damage or even assaults and murder, is it eye for an eye, or healing, forgiveness, helpign the troubled individual?

One thing only are we allowed. Vengeance is Mine sayeth the Lord. Turn the Other Cheek.

Now, watching that ex Judge from Iran, she's wonderful by the way, she wasn't too happy with Sharia! And the real uprising that was actually a tool of the western bankers and their agenda.

reply to post by Unity_99


Everything you're saying is nice and dandy, but unfortunately sharia isn't just a sect. Its the law of the Quran by which Muslims adhere to live by. Its comprised of different portions and can never be forced upon anyone. Its sort of like the Constitution but on a deeply personal level. It is also not the business of organized government to establish sharia, it can only be applied through courts with willing members of society.

In other words, it is a bunch of laws and by laws that people try to live their personal lives with, code of ethics etc.

Here's a nice article on that: Huffington Post Article

As for Shirin Ebadi, ofcourse she wouldn't be happy with sharia in Iran. When you take the combination of organized religion (the mullah system) which by the way is completely and utterly against the spirit of Islam since we do not have an organized head of religion, and combine it with organized government, corruption is inevitable.

reply to post by ChristianJihad


Your so out of touch. Show me where in the scripture it says its ok to abuse your wife.

The Bible actually says,


Corinthians 7


Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.



True followers of Islam will never know these things because they are follwing a lie less they turn away. Im sorry to say. It brings nothing but evil into your life.



Muhammad didnt die on the cross Jesus did.

reply to post by Malynn

A lot of chest thumping and righteous indignation from people who have never visited a muslim country, let alone a middle eastern country. A lot of inflammatory statements from people who have not read the Qu'ran.

I think some ASSUMPTIONS are showing rather brazenly.

1. I have visited Muslim countries & territories.

2. I gave free room to a Muslim for over a year. His bed was 2-3 feet from my own. I gave him a fair number of meals, as well.

3. I'm making my way through the Koran on my Kindle.

4. My roommate would agree with my assertions about Islam. He is now probably more fiercely hostile to it, than I am. He studied its origins extensively.

He no longer bothers with folks on the web out of extreme disgust with the mentalities he found there. He also is one of the thousands of descendants of Mohammed.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by Malynn

 

I think some ASSUMPTIONS are showing rather brazenly.

1. I have visited Muslim countries & territories.

2. I gave free room to a Muslim for over a year. His bed was 2-3 feet from my own. I gave him a fair number of meals, as well.

3. I'm making my way through the Koran on my Kindle.

4. My roommate would agree with my assertions about Islam. He is now probably more fiercely hostile to it, than I am. He studied its origins extensively.

He no longer bothers with folks on the web out of extreme disgust with the mentalities he found there. He also is one of the thousands of descendants of Mohammed.

edit on 23/3/2012 by BO XIAN because: quote parameters not working right.

edit on 23/3/2012 by BO XIAN because: (no reason given)

1. Did I say you never had been? I named no names. I read every page of this thread and there are plenty of people speaking like they know what they're talking about and have obviously never left their own countries.

2. Charity is a good quality promoted by several religions both monotheistic and otherwise.

3. Kindles are one of the world's great inventions. Since you're reading it you'll notice there is no advocation of honor killing.

4. Ok? I'm not sure how this equates Islam to being pro-honor killing?

reply to post by BO XIAN


There is no difference between hiding behind a supposed make believe god and cultural system for your crimes. Then when a murderer or abuser hides behind any of there make believe excuses and reasons. What you have here is a whole religious culture prone to making excuses and even giving rights for there crimes and sanctioned insanity's all without scruples.

Obviously these people are crazy, and fools, and not only that, but lazy to have not at least come to an attempt to find other ways to fix such dilemmas. In fact most if not all there dilemmas are made by themselves and there insanity's to begin with. They call it insanity when one person has an invisible imaginary friend, but when millions and billions have an imaginary and invisible friend in the sky sanctioning there actions.

Well that is all just a matter of course, and perfectly acceptable in fact it's down right normal. Ain't life funny.

But anyways they can all believe in any or as many invisible friends in the sky as they want, it does not matter much to me, nor do I give two #'s about it...However I do seem to be starting to care for the actions that they bring about more and more with each passing time module that dilates and amasses and passes by in this world.

Murder is murder, end of story Oh I'am sure that they will have a story to tell. I however am not all that interested in hearing it, and besides I have probably heard it before.