Why Roman Catholics Oppose Freemasonry

Originally posted by 1nOne
reply to post by OnTheLevel213

 

Does Freemasonry recognize the existence of the devil and his servants...

In an effort to apply my understanding to your query... I find that I must first confess that I am not a Freemason.
However, therein within Freemason is the "Craft!" And only the "Craft!"
It is designed to enlighten and moreso than anyother thing to instruct...
Be that as it may... you'll find that therein is found no realization to the existence of the devil or his/her affiliates.
Instead therein exist a wrong way to serve and a right way to serve. The question to whom one serves depends entirely on the individual and his particular likes. So... for some it may be God... for others it may be the wife or the child or so on and on...
What may account for your curiosity is the idea that you believe there exist a devil of sorts.
My understanding is that yes the devil exists... but only if you allow him to.
Meaning... you surrender to the three tenets of pure evil.
These are:
1) as represented by the "Caduceus" = (1)Fear & (2)Doubt! (An Angel Of The Lord Devoured By Your Fear & Doubt!)
2) as represented by the "Rod of Asclepeus" = (3)Temptation! (The Branch Of The Tree Of Everlasting Life Devoured By You Succumbing To Temptation!

And there you have it... neither masonic nor christian. But of God the Father Almighty...

Now... In order for them to recognize the existence of evil and its minions... there must first be the one who indulges such fantasies within himself. That they may revive or redeem the poor soul.

In my own opinion tho....
The Devil, The Beast, The Dragon, Satan, and the Demons... are all very real.
But... It is said: "Blessed are the Pure of Heart... For they shall see God!"
Freemasons have tenet about purity. If you engage in it... you may see..........................................................

reply to post by Pinocchio


Thank-you, Pinocchio, for investing genuine thought and precious finite time into attempting to answer the question.

May true happiness find you, and may evil never come your way.

reply to post by 1nOne


Perhaps I have not stated this plainly enough: Freemasonry requires its members to believe in God and in His benevolence; no other statement of belief is required*, but individual Freemasons are free to take up such theological positions, and most do (as I have).

*Not true of the York Rite and the Swedish Rite, where a profession of Christian faith is required.

reply to post by 1nOne


Freemasonry does not teach religion. It does not teach who God is, or who the devil is. Is it not a religion nor a replacement for religion. A mason must already have his faith before he is initiated. Our teachings come from the Bible and yes we do place other religious holy books on the altar if it is requested by another member of a different faith. It's freemasonry's stance that our job is not to determine which religion is correct, it is to love each other and learn from each other and live a good life. When we die, we will have the answers to our questions. I am/was a confirmed Catholic and I joined knowing that my ties with the church would be severed. I agree with the principals of masonry. Tolerance is Godly, tyranny is of the devil. (IMHO)

reply to post by network dude


Then why dost thou shade thy lovely face?

reply to post by 1nOne


A mask is more than you have offered.

Is that laziness, or technically inept?

Why Roman Catholics Oppose Freemasonry?

The real question should be: Why does the Roman Catholic Church Oppose Freemasonry?

Three words: Lack of control.

reply to post by 1nOne


The answer is because the Bishop of Rome say so.

I always wonder where the antis who believe we are agents of the Vatican slink off to when a post like this comes up.

The answer is because the Bishop of Rome say so.

Exactly. The prohibition against Masonry comes from the Vatican, under the guise that somehow Masonry is a threat to the Catholic faith.

In truth, modern day Masonry holds many tenets to the spiritual beliefs espoused by Christ. Brotherhood, caring for the orphan and widow, prayer, fraternal ties, doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, respect for one another, community involvement, etc. are all Masonic virtues espoused throughout the ritual work of the Craft. True Christian brotherhood and Masonic brotherhood have much in common.

Unfortunately, you have an arrogant, myopic Church hierarchy that condemns Masonry, and yet turns a blind eye to many other true and real threats against the Church -- such as radical Islam, Scientology, or any number of a whole host of anti-Catholic groups and organizations.

reply to post by 1nOne

Do you know the history of the condemnation of Freemasonry by the Catholic Church? Do you realize that the first Papal Bull condemning it and forbidding its congregation to join didn't come until 1738 (nearly 20-years since the first Grand Lodge was established in England) just a year after Andrew Michael Ramsay gave his famous Oration where he said Masonry is a continuation of the chivalric orders of the Crusades? Was the Oration the cause? Maybe. The events surrounding the timeline though make it suspicious, particularly when Ramsay had first requested the permission to read it, but even after receiving negative feedback he still gave it.

Also realize this is just the opinion of one entity, the Catholic Church. It is their interpretation of what they think are the facts. Plus the Catholic Church back in the early days of Masonry condemned secrecy on our part as they couldn't get access to our rituals or information, and thus lost the seat of their power to manipulate and twist information to suit their agenda. I mean its ironic the Catholic Church would condemn secrecy when they are probably one of the most secret institutions in the world.

Nor does any symbol of Freemasonry neutralize or replace faith. That is a foolish interpretation.

The Freemasons do not forbid its members from joining the Church.

reply to post by HeldHostage14

Yeah, you're just as confused on Freemasonry as the Catholic Church is.

Originally posted by 1nOne
Freemasons are virulently opposed to:

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John 14:6

You just don't get it do you. Many Masons are Christian and thus do believe this verse, and us sitting in Lodge with men of other faiths doesn't negate our own. Maybe your faith is so shaky that you'd lose it by osmosis, but mine isn't.

Originally posted by 1nOne
Faith in God? Enlighten us: do Masons place the Christian bible on their altar next to (read: equal to) other non-Christian religious texts?

In my Lodge and most Lodges I've been to? No.

Originally posted by 1nOne
Do Freemasons not swear on the Bible oaths of secrecy and pledge allegiance to humanity?

Pledge allegiance to humanity? What?

Originally posted by 1nOne
Have Freemasons not added the deities of Heliopolis (Baalbek) to their own editions of the Christian bible?

No.

Originally posted by 1nOne
Is the cornerstone of your fraternity not in the founding of the Temple of Solomon?

The legend is, but one would be hard pressed to say we actually stem from that. The legends, ceremonies, and rituals of Freemasonry are there to teach lessons.

Originally posted by 1nOne
Does Freemasonry recognize the existence of the devil and his servants; the actual presence of spiritual wolves, hell-bent on preventing the flock from the rightful reunion with the Heavenly Father by the transformative power of accepting Christ as our Saviour?

Again, you don't seem to get it. The Fraternity as a whole does not have a say or opinion to religious dogma. It is up to each individual to believe in the existence of Satan. If I remember right, Augustus doesn't, but I do. I know many Hindu Brothers who believe in their own version.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Concerning your signature:

"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
Quo usque tandem abutere patentia nostra?
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris."

English: "Furthermore, I think Carthage must be destroyed". Why would a Mason, a doer of "good works", utter such despicable words?

Wikipedia must be consulted:

Phoenician colonists from modern-day Lebanon, led by Queen Dido (Elissa) founded Carthage. Queen Elissa (also known as "Alissar"), was an exiled princess of the ancient Phoenician city of Tyre. (Your founder, Hiram Abiff, is of Tyre. It is the root of the word, Tyrant...)

At its peak, the metropolis she founded, Carthage, came to be called the "shining city". In the Aeneid, Queen Dido, the Greek name for Queen Elissa, is first introduced as an extremely respected character. In just seven years, since their exodus from Tyre, the Carthaginians have rebuilt a successful kingdom under her rule. Her subjects adore her and present her with a festival of praise. Her character is perceived by Virgil as even more noble when she offers asylum to Aeneas and his men, who have recently escaped from Troy.

The fall of Carthage came at the end of the Third Punic War in 146 BC at the Battle of Carthage.[12] Despite initial devastating Roman naval losses and Rome's recovery from the brink of defeat after the terror of a 15-year occupation of much of Italy by Hannibal, the end of the series of wars resulted in the end of Carthaginian power and the complete destruction of the city by Scipio Aemilianus. The Romans pulled the Phoenician warships out into the harbor and burned them before the city, and went from house to house, capturing, raping and enslaving the people. Fifty thousand Carthaginians were sold into slavery.[13] The city was set ablaze, and razed to the ground, leaving only ruins and rubble.

Who is "Hiram Abiff", the "Master Craftsman" of Tyre?
He goes by many names but he is best known as, "Satan".

Wikipedia:

Hiram I (Hebrew: חִירָם, "high-born"; Standard Hebrew Ḥiram, Tiberian vocalization Ḥîrām, Modern Arabic: حيرام), according to the Hebrew Bible, was the Phoenician king of Tyre. He reigned from 980 to 947 BC, succeeding his father, Abibaal. Hiram was succeeded as king of Tyre by his son Baal-Eser I. The Bible says that he allied himself with King David of the United Kingdom of Israel as well as that the status of both Kings was equal and that the treaty between them was a parity treaty (2 Samuel 05:11, 1 Kings 05:01, 1 Chronicles 14:01). After the death of King David, Solomon, a son of David, succeeded to David's throne and Hiram continued the relation with Israel through King Solomon.

Hiram (often spelled Huram[1]), a craftsman of great skill sent from Tyre. 2 Chronicles 2:13-14 relates a formal request from King Solomon of Jerusalem to King Hiram I of Tyre, for workers and for materials to build a new temple; King Hiram responds "And now I have sent a skillful man, endowed with understanding, Huram my master craftsman (the son of a woman of the daughters of Dan, and his father was a man of Tyre), skilled to work in gold and silver, bronze and iron, stone and wood, purple and blue, fine linen and crimson, and to make any engraving and to accomplish any plan which may be given to him, with your skillful men and with the skillful men of my lord David your father."[9] In the original Hebrew version of 2 Chronicles 2:13, the phrase translated above as "Huram my master craftsman" is "ḤWRM 'BY" Ḥiram 'abi.[10]



I am the Word, and I am of The Father.

Your "imagined" power over the sons of man ends.

THE DAY OF THE LORD IS COME

www.umbrasolis.net...üngste_Gericht_Memling.jpeg

reply to post by 1nOne

Nowhere have you tied that Hiram equals Satan.

Quit with the pathetic, fanatically driven attacks against our Fraternity.

I've never seen anything in Masonry that opposes Roman Catholicism. I've never personally had a Priest warn the congregation about the evils of Masonry.

Sometimes the Church comes out and makes an asshat of themselves by reaffirming the excommunication of Freemasons.. it's been a few years since they have.. but usually it's a puffed up Bishop trying to get into the headlines by making some absurd statement to get people riled up.

Originally posted by 1nOne
Concerning your signature:

What does my signature have to do with my response? Maybe you could actually try to address the point I made instead of devolving into a history and religious non-sequitor. It reminds my of the Parakletos.

I've never seen anything in Masonry that opposes Roman Catholicism. I've never personally had a Priest warn the congregation about the evils of Masonry.

You'll see this more commonly in the pre-Vatican II, Latin Mass parishes that are much more conservative. It's not uncommon for the warning against Catholics joining Freemasonry to be advocated from the weekly parish newsletter, alongside a recommendation for young men to join the Knights of Columbus instead.

Right now, there is a huge division in the Church between the liberal, post-Vatican II side of the Church, and the more conservative, traditional, pre-Vatican II Catholics. Before Vatican II, it was a common rumor that Masons were involved in an evil plot to overthrow the Church, courtesy of the Italian Carbonari's Alta Vendita document.

About the only thing in Masonry that opposes Roman Catholicism is Masonry's acceptance of men of different religious faiths who, nonetheless, all believe in a Supreme Creator. This is diametrically opposed to Catholicism's belief that the only route to salvation is through the Church alone, i.e., "No Salvation outside the Church". If you read the papal encyclicals condemning Freemasonry, they are a bit comical in their accusations, accusing Freemasonry of paganism, naturalism, etc.

Again, I find the Church is in the Stone Age when it condemns Freemasonry and turns a blind eye to so many other very real threats against the Church, such as secularism, radical Islam, and any number of radical philosophies and movements. Instead, the Church holds true to condemning Freemasonry, and ignores the rest. Apparently, you can be a Scientologist, Rotarian, Elk, Moose, or any other member of a whole host of fraternal or spiritual organizations and not hear a peep from the Vatican.

Roman Catholicism does not fret about Freemason.
Instead it comports with the idea that men through Freemason are allowed to judge accordingly the merits of such a faith as the Roman Catholics. Therein found is not a heresy nor a blasphemy...
Remember thatwhat Christ did and what he established was real.
Watch Mel Gibson's interpretation of the Christ Experience.
For the people who forget... there is the Church who works hard to maintain our devotion to Christ.
They do not forget!
But! But there is in Freemasonry the willingness to allow men in unto the mysteries of the world without comporting with natural Christendom. This type of free will thinking is not abloished by the chruch.
But when it is directed at the church there must be those openly defend it.
Without taking sides in general about chruch and craft. The mind set of the thinkers and sayers run amok creating your mindset of this entire topic. Learn my friend that you can be ffree of this matter.
But do so lovingly for both sides. For soon we shall be as one!

I find it a great irony that Catholics would oppose masonry, and yet they had no problem with them building their grandest structures. Every cathedal (I know, spelt wrong, kinda my sig...) was built by masons. So basicly they're saying "You're good enough to build our chapels, but after that...we'd rather not have anything to do with you."

Sounds kinda hypicritical to me.

A hypicritical catholic? Never!

A final note, is as simple as a Nazi Pope.

...it's because we pointed out that the pope was wearing no clothes, and nude as he was he still held a grudge for our observation.

Pope Clement the XII, 28, April, 1738, Papal Bull against membership in "Liberi Muratori or Francs Masons. You guys can look it up for yourselves. It's fairly easy reading and there were serveral other Ecyclicals written at later periods reinforcing it.

The Catholic Church felt threatened by the Craft and took out after them and basically declared "Francs Masons" heretical and I'm guessing they thought that they were a threat to the good order of society, the church and men's mortal souls.

I'm surprised that Maronry survived the church and the Royal families around Europe, but personally I'm glad they did.

The bigger joke on the church though was the fact that the "Light" of masonry was keep by their own throughout the Dark Ages in their very own monasteries. Much of their own teachings they themselves don't see or understand. Layers upon layers.

Anyway, happy reading!

As a member of the freemasons and the Catholic Church, i get a lot of people asking me why do i still go to church. My wife and son are Catholic, i was married in the catholic church, my son was baptised in the catholic church....but i, for my own personal reasons, disagree with the catholic teaching, not their beliefs. Im told that i cannot speak or ask forgiveness from God unless its through a priest. Im not buying that. I've run into problems with what i believe is right and what the church is saying is mandatory. Then i read that you cant take Holy Communion because you are in a state of grave sin when you belong to the masons. i dont get it. But i guess its not mine to get. I love God, my family and my PHAmily.