Why Roman Catholics Oppose Freemasonry

reply to post by juggernaut0907



That is awesome...
I too am Roman Catholic. But by tradition. It was my gran-folk's thing...
I am not a Freemason, but I allow the tools and the regalia and the degree system to further shape my endeavor to be a better Roman Catholic... Is that cool or what???

The only thing I know of the Pope is that in this Freemasonic Country... The Pope is the only one who can buy back my soul from the clutches of death for the price of a penny. Why a penny? It is his purity of heart... not the penny.

But: If you ever want to turn a penny into two cents... just flip the coin and see which side it lands on. hehe?
But beware: The "Secret Master" is lurking: He wants your mind or your temple.

We've had a number of Catholics in our lodge. For the record Freemasonry has no problem with Catholics, Catholicism has a problem with freemasonry. Even in the beginning Masons did not wish to end the Papacy or Catholic Church....they did wish however to reform it, and for it to actually represent the virtues and morality taught by Christ....this desire met with a violent persecution against them. I think in truth Catholicism owes a thank you to masonry when you compare the modern Catholism of today vs that dark corrupt organization of the middle ages. Mother Teresa for example was a living embodiment of the very virtues Masonry holds dear.

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon
I think in truth Catholicism owes a thank you to masonry.../quote]

I've known that for sometime now... and yet I can't remember hoow I came to that conclusion.
Anyhoo... On behalf of my Roman Catholic Gran-Folk(s)... Thank You Freemason(s)!

From:
Don Isaac I & Donna Mary... Pat Gran-Folk
Don Juan & Donna Santos... Mat Gran-Folk
Sr. Isaac II & Sra. Carmen... Folk
Mr. Isaac III... My Brother, My Saviour, and My King!
And Me...

edit on 5-4-2012 by Pinocchio because: wrongly included in quote as if...

edit on 5-4-2012 by Pinocchio because: typo

reply to post by Pinocchio


May I refer to you as "Pocket"? A good name I think you have intriguingly earned.


"Have more than thou showest,
Speak less than thou knowest,"

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon
reply to post by Pinocchio

 

May I refer to you as "Pocket"? A good name I think you have intriguingly earned.

What is "Pocket" and why would you call me that???

Is it because I am Pinocchio the Great... Fashioned of Acacia Wood with Sh!ttim for my thoughs, adorned in fine gold.????

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
The Roman Catholic Church has long formally prohibited Catholics from joining Masonic organizations.
..
Interestingly enough, Masonry is singled out as an institution that Catholics are forbidden to join, but other fraternal and social organizations are given a deaf ear. Apparently, you can belong to the Kiwanis, the Elks, the Moose, the Rotary, etc., all of which have Masonic elements, and not be in conflict with the Church. But Masons are forbidden.

The Church might want to update its list of fraternal enemies.

I have a bunch of Qs here:

So, how do they know (the RCC) if a person is a Freemason? Do they have a database of all the members?

What if a Catholic Freemason is 'caught' (discovered in his Church) - does his congregation take out a restraining order against him? Does the person who 'tattled' get indulgences? A gold rosary for a prize? Canonized?

How do they (the priests, etc) handle 'excommunicants' coming to Church and kneeling for Communion anyway?

Do they pitch a hissy fit during the Eucharist? Hand-cuff the guy and drag him to a dungeon? Flog him? Hold him up as Satan for all the rest of the congregation to spit at and throw things at?

What if a Freemason decided he wants to convert to Catholicism? Is he required to tell the Priest/Bishop/Pope that he is a Freemason? Is there some 'backgound check' done in some Secret Society records?

And last, but perhaps most importantly, why are women not allowed to be Freemasons, even if they have all the same beliefs??

I genuinely admire the Freemasons (publicly known) agenda (brotherhood, humanity, common good, equality), and would really like to have a chance to participate, or at least to have a 'tour of the facility' as a student might 'audit' a class for non-credit....but I can't, because it's clear that I am a woman...so...

would I have to disguise myself as a man? What if I did and I was 'caught'? What is the penalty?


Oh well, I'll just not be in either one, thanks. But, Go Freemasons! (I think?)....

Mason here. Just wanted to pipe up, and congratulate such an excellent thread. I was reared into the Catholic Faith, and did my duty to them until I was Confirmed. I was Even a Sunday School Teacher. However I had established my Independent mind young, and was Bandying about With a Pentacle as I was introduced to Paganism, and had Legitimate Concerns I was being fooled by a Church who re-painted Pagan Deities as Saints.

My confirmation year I jumped through all of the hoops, and was "punished" to teach other Tough to Corner "Catholic kids". I was wearing a pentacle and had sincere Pantheistic beliefs at that time. Though I always prayed, always prayed. I knew what Good was, and Still do. So here I am 15 years old at the time, and My Father and I were Both Teaching Catholic School. Dad never gave me trouble about it, as he really was a Protestant who converted for my mother. So to continue, I'm teaching sunday school trying to help the kids relate Catholicism to their lives and of course the dreaded question comes up....I suspect the Church was waiting for me to bungle this.

"Why do you wear a Satan Star?"

"Me", Oh no guys, you are misinformed, this is an ancient symbol older than the church itself, and has nothing to do with Satan or Evil. It is called a Pentacle, not to be confused with a Pentagram. However, I'm not here to teach you about that, let's move onto Chapter 12 in your book about Jesus and The Golden Rule...

I have tried Many Faiths on for size in the years past, including bitterness lol "Aethiesm" and Agnosticism, and was a confirmed Mason as a Nichi-rin Daishonen Buddhist. However I Feel very strongly, God intended us to question and challenge, and study, and review and reflect, so that a "Greater-Understanding of His True Works and Meanings can be found through the "Babel".

I have one Higher Power, and Jesus is my guide here on Earth. Jesus has had some great like-minded kindred spirits on this Earth, and they too have teachings which help Establish the Works of God, and The Kingdom of Heaven. We would be fools to refute that.

Thanks, and Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity for All.
Raised in William Sewell Gardner-Kilwinning Lodge A.F & A.M, 11/2009 Grand Lodge of Massachusetts

Originally posted by HeldHostage14
Personally, i do not believe in the catholic church, i was raised catholic and converted to christianity. Catholics also worship pagan gods,.

Can you go into more detail? I want to say I disagree but I would like to hear your point of view first.

Originally posted by wildtimes
I have a bunch of Qs here:

So, how do they know (the RCC) if a person is a Freemason? Do they have a database of all the members?

The only real way for them to know is for the person to tell them.

What if a Catholic Freemason is 'caught' (discovered in his Church) - does his congregation take out a restraining order against him? Does the person who 'tattled' get indulgences? A gold rosary for a prize? Canonized?

If a Catholic Freemason is discovered by the Church, he becomes (at least theoretically) excommunicated, meaning he cannot receive the sacraments.

How do they (the priests, etc) handle 'excommunicants' coming to Church and kneeling for Communion anyway?

They are required to refuse the sacraments, and instead offer a blessing. It's handled the same way as when a non-Catholic attends the mass.

What if a Freemason decided he wants to convert to Catholicism? Is he required to tell the Priest/Bishop/Pope that he is a Freemason? Is there some 'backgound check' done in some Secret Society records?

I don't think the issue would usually come up. The excommunication of Freemasons, while Church law, is not universally enforced, especially in the US.

And last, but perhaps most importantly, why are women not allowed to be Freemasons, even if they have all the same beliefs??

Because Masonry is a fraternity (the same reason men are not allowed to join sororities).

I genuinely admire the Freemasons (publicly known) agenda (brotherhood, humanity, common good, equality), and would really like to have a chance to participate, or at least to have a 'tour of the facility' as a student might 'audit' a class for non-credit....but I can't, because it's clear that I am a woman...so...

You couldn't join the fraternity, but you'd be welcome to tour the facilities.

would I have to disguise myself as a man? What if I did and I was 'caught'? What is the penalty?

The candidate for initiation is required to expose his breast in order to prove that he is male.

reply to post by wildtimes


You can take a tour by calling ahead and scheduling a time to visit. Someone will show you around, tell you the history of the building, explain what Freemasonry is and they will even tell you why the Lodge is arranged as it is.

Concerning women and the Craft, it is true that mainstream Freemasonry doesn't permit female members to join a Lodge although their are branches such as Order of the Eastern Star and Job's Daughters for women and girls. However, there are Orders of Freemasonry following the Continental Tradition that do allow women to join as full members of the Lodge. If you are interested in learning more, search for information about Co-Masonry although many have abandoned the term the information is still valid. American Federation of Human Rights, International Masonic Order Delphi, Le Droit Humain, George Washington Union, Honourable Fraternity of Ancient Freemasons and Eastern Order of International Co-Masonry are some of the prominent mixed Orders and there are also Female only Orders such as Grand Lodge Feminine Belgique.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Interestingly, we have someone who is an applicant in our Lodge awaiting his Initiation who is in fact a member of a Sorority at the University that he attends.

reply to post by Masonic Light


This Lady Whom is interested in Freemasonry isn't she Allowed to enter The Order of The Eastern Star? I don't believe I'm mistaken, or does she need to be married to a Mason first? This is the Official Route to be involved in Masonry, for Women.

Also, take this for what it's worth "net rumor has it", There are unofficial and unsanctioned masonic organizations which allow women Entry. Forgive me as I'm not suggesting I can share the secrets if there were any...And I can also say it might be a scam on you....And you wouldn't be acknowledged by the Grand Lodges, and I couldn't acknowledge you Either, unless you went the official route of "Eastern Star."

It just might be more mess than it's worth, so keep that in mind.

But what I can tell the Lady seeking Freemasonry is this, in my personal opinion only, if you feel you are a Mason in your heart, then probably you are.

Can any of my fellow Masons lend me some support on what matters in the heart?

reply to post by matthewgraybeal


Even if a woman joined the OES the sanctioned appendant body of "regular" Freemasonry, she would not be recognized as a Freemason.

The Orders that I have mentioned are all recognized within Continental Freemasonry and most have Amity agreements allowing visitation between them.

reply to post by Pinocchio


Something like that yes!

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon
reply to post by Pinocchio

 

Something like that yes!

Very welll then... you may refer to me as "Pocket".
You have caused my karma to rise an entire point. Thus I must refer to you as "Karmaggedon."

Also.... I am Adding you to my Friend List. asap

reply to post by no1smootha

However, there are Orders of Freemasonry following the Continental Tradition that do allow women to join as full members of the Lodge. If you are interested in learning more, search for information about Co-Masonry although many have abandoned the term the information is still valid. American Federation of Human Rights, International Masonic Order Delphi, Le Droit Humain, George Washington Union, Honourable Fraternity of Ancient Freemasons and Eastern Order of International Co-Masonry are some of the prominent mixed Orders and there are also Female only Orders such as Grand Lodge Feminine Belgique.

Brilliant!!
Thanks so very much!!

Originally posted by matthewgraybeal

This Lady Whom is interested in Freemasonry isn't she Allowed to enter The Order of The Eastern Star? I don't believe I'm mistaken, or does she need to be married to a Mason first? This is the Official Route to be involved in Masonry, for Women.

The Eastern Star is not Masonry though, and the ladies who are involved in OES are not involved in Masonry. They are two separate organizations.

In the USA, the OES is sponsored by Masonic Lodges. In the UK, the United Grand Lodge of England forbids Masons being involved in OES.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
In the USA, the OES is sponsored by Masonic Lodges. In the UK, the United Grand Lodge of England forbids Masons being involved in OES.

That's something new for me I had never heard that before, but after reading up it certainly seems to be true. Though there does not seem to be much teeth in the UGLE enforcing this. I do feel it's a shame...as I am rather fond of the OES and while not a member, many relatives have been and are, and my wife has some interest. I think they are an excellent organization.

As to original person asking,

Most American lodges would be quite lost without the help and support of their OES members, who are often the heart of many of the best charity fundraisers.

I think originally you did have to be a wife of a mason or daughter, but now I'm not so sure that is a requirement....someone in OES might respond?

Originally posted by ForkandSpoon


Most American lodges would be quite lost without the help and support of their OES members, who are often the heart of many of the best charity fundraisers.

I disagree. Most American Lodges do not sponsor Eastern Star Chapters, and therefore have no connection with them, for fundraisers or otherwise.

The few Lodges in Idaho that are in close connection with an Eastern Star Chapter is due mainly to the fact they are usually rural, smaller Lodges and it is only them and the Star. Surprisingly though, they make up some strong Lodges and Chapters.