Would you want to be a Freemason?

"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." –Woodrow Wilson

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Are you in favor, or opposed, to the plan of the Bavarian Illuminati?

Not in favor. You could say I'm opposed to it. I don't agree with One World government.
Countries are like bulkheads on a ship. In their individual sovereignty, they protect the whole thing from sinking. If you make it all one compartment, it all fails a lot easier.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
And how is it that their plan (the democratizaion of monarchical and Church-ruled Europe) is still relevant today, when all that has already been accomplished?

It has not been accomplished.
What are the wars in the Middle East about?
Spreading Democracy... by force.
That is why George Bush referenced Billington's book, saying "We lit a fire in the minds of men".

www.newswithviews.com...

When Bush was giving his second inaugural speech four years later, he again offered cryptic commentary, saying, "For a half century, America defended our own freedom by standing watch on distant borders. After the shipwreck of communism came years of relative quiet, years of repose, years of sabbatical - and then there came a day of fire...."
A few paragraphs following, Bush added, "By our efforts, we have lit a fire as well - a fire in the minds of men. It warms those who feel its power, it burns those who fight its progress, and one day this untamed fire of freedom will reach the darkest corners of our world."

Fire in the Minds of Men is also the title that historian James H. Billington chose for his famous book on the history of revolutions, including the origin of occult Freemasonry and its influence in the American Revolution.
In his closing comments, Bush himself tied the inaugural crypticisms to the Masonic involvement in the American Revolution, saying, "When our Founders declared a new order of the ages… they were acting on an ancient hope that is meant to be fulfilled." The phrase "a new order of the ages" is taken from the Masonically designed Great Seal ("Novus Ordo Seclorum") and Bush further acknowledged that the secret society members were acting on an "ancient" hope that is "meant to be fulfilled."

I don't completely agree with this breakdown, because it seems a bit loose in how it words things.

PS:
It is fact that Bush comes from a long line of Anglophile traitors to the USA.
They profited off of Nazi blood in the concentration camps they helped fund/build and profit from.
They allowed Hitler's IG Farben Co. to use Standard Oil's synthetic rubber patents that they weren't even sharing with the US government. This was one of the many treason charges they were "slapped on the wrist" with after WWII. It was laughable though. The fines were chump-change and John D Rockefeller got off scott free, saying he didn't manage the "day to day" operations of the company. Bush and Farish handled that.

The Bush's have sold us out to the Nazi's and the British crown. The USA is truly owned by Britain still.

PPS: I forgot to mention before when discussing the Rothschilds just being poor rich victims of financial prejudice... well, our "Federal" Reserve is mostly owned by the Rothschilds. This is a fact. Care to differ with me on that?

I honestly don't know, it's kind of creepy to imagine, but then again I have a creepy experience with them! You know, calling my cell phone while I was in class then adressing me by my first and last name and asking if I wanted to join? You know, just a tiny bit creepy! And I'm dead serious about my post btw, not joking or lieing.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
I'm sure you do realize how the Rockefellers (Standard Oil) and Prescott Bush (George Sr's Dad) are tied in with the Nazi concentration camps and were all charged with treason after World War II.

Actually, I do not realize that. Where is the evidence of the treason charges you allege?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
I'm sure you do realize how the Rockefellers (Standard Oil) and Prescott Bush (George Sr's Dad) are tied in with the Nazi concentration camps and were all charged with treason after World War II.

Actually, I do not realize that. Where is the evidence of the treason charges you allege?

I'm going to say this about as nice as I can, without totally biting my tongue.

It would be really easy for you to produce that evidence in a few seconds by simply doing what I am about to do right now for you, which is employ the use of a form of technology known as an internet search engine.

Google "Bush Farish Treason"... or even "Bush Standard Oil Treason".. And you will have all of the history at your fingertips.

I can't hold everyone's hands on all of this stuff. It takes a seeker to put the pieces together. All I seem to be encountering here is deconstructive thought patterns by people who haven't even taken the time to construct the puzzle in a wholistic way.
You guys are most likely members here so you can take Anti-masonry on, where it is most prevalent.
I have known of Anti-Masonry and Anti-Anti-Masonry (most Masonic websites have specific sections devoted to how to destroy Anti-masons and their ignorant "rhetoric") for a long time. It's not news to me what masons have to say in response. It just doesn't cut the mustard for me.

And if you learned masons had taken the time in your lives to research the world's current power structure, (using ONLY history, minus ALL conspiracy theory) and how it extends directly to the past through family lines, you probably would not be arguing and challenging me on every point I try to make.

The man (other than Prescott Bush) who is spoken of heavily in these accounts is my best friend's direct male ancestor. My friend has the same last name:
www.democraticunderground.com...
theamericanchronicle.blogspot.com...
www.beyondweird.com...
www.tribalmessenger.org...
www.eurekaencyclopedia.com...:Bush-Farish_Axis
alexconstantine.blogspot.com...
prorev.com...

There is similar information in all of these, yet each one has unique information and insights not found in the others.. which is why I posted all of these. There is much more out there on this topic.
It's not a secret.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
I have been typing and responding to other things all morning here... you are getting all pinched and ASSUMING (but you wouldn't do that) that I am ignoring you or not taking on your points. That's narcissistic and impatient. Not qualities of a maker of good men.

I have responded to your posts and have never got into a pinch about you ignoring me. I could honestly care less if you responded or not, but I had to set your posts straight as they contained wrong information.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
You are right. I am sorry. He wasn't really made a 33º... but if I weren't eager to address other more importent points in this discussion, (which Reagan isn't one of them, it was a side-note based on hearsay) then I would make the point about his Masonic involvements and how you helped make them more clear.

If it wasn't important then why did you post it?

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
If you are going to skirt around difficult points I'm making, (focussing on minor issues) which other Masons here aren't skirting around, they are taking them head-on. Then I have only to assume A) You don't know and aren't necessary "low-level" but maybe not "HIGHEST level" or B) You are being disingenous and misleading.

I haven't skirted anything. Maybe I just missed it. What exactly is it you want me to address so I can avoid "skirting" the issue. I'd say I'm not the highest, I'm more of middle management, I coordinate a lot of things and have my hands in a lot of pies.

FYI, I could have missed something as today starts the Grand York Rite Sessions in Idaho and I am the Registration, Financial, and Credentials Chairman...so I'm a tad busy.

I do try to ensure my grammar and spelling is accurate, but once in a while you miss something small. What exactly did I miss?

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Because I read and read and read and read and read all that I can get my damn hands on!!!

But real life experience trumps the book everytime.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
And many masons are there for the bingo games, steak dinners and I dunno the fluffy hats???

I'm not one of those kinds.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
How many masons do YOU know who don't even know what the word ESOTERIC means or who haven't even heard of Baphomet, OTO, Aleister Crowley or Manly P. Hall?

I'm a proponent of Masonic educational reform.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
I'm giving you THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT by saying you're ignorant.. instead of either mis-leading or mis-led yourself.

Save me that benefit then.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
That's total BS. I have seen enough to know that I have MAJOR problems with how Freemasonry is woven in with war, governments of all countries... the royal effing vampire family and banks who suck us dry.

I'm sure you've seen "plenty" of evidence. Let me guess, from FreemasonryWatch or David Icke?

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Yes, I admit, I have problems with freemasonry and I am aggressive about my stance.

And I am just as adamant about my support of them.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by LeonoraTenen

 

Which Masonic Temple has the picture? I'd like to see that.

Never said that. Don't twist my words.

I didn't twist your words, I just misread that line. I thought you meant it was on their Temple wall, not their home wall. Get off your aggressive high horse.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
One of my friends with a Baph poster, who argues the side of mystical origins, became WM... so that tells me, (should tell you too) that side tends to hold the flame for both sides.

I have my opinion which could possibly differ from your friends and I have been WM...twice. So what?

reply to post by LeonoraTenen

Bush has nothing to do with Freemasonry. Please cite exact crimes you know of? Google it is your answer? If you are the accuser the burden of proof lies with you, not us.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
I'm going to say this about as nice as I can, without totally biting my tongue.

It would be really easy for you to produce that evidence in a few seconds by simply doing what I am about to do right now for you, which is employ the use of a form of technology known as an internet search engine.

Google "Bush Farish Treason"... or even "Bush Standard Oil Treason".. And you will have all of the history at your fingertips.

Do you really think I did not do that prior to asking you?

All that turns up was an article written several years ago that says they should have been charged for treason, not, as you positively asserted, that they were charged with treason. So I will ask you again, where is the evidence that they were charged with what you say?

reply to post by LeonoraTenen


Leonora, thank you for your thoughtful answers. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. You and I have radically different interpretations on what Kabalah and Freemasonry actually are.

For example, one cannot use Kabalah for evil because Kabalah is an inward journey that points out the Path of Return. Granted, one can use Magick for evil purposes, but that's a different subject, and those who do so only eat and drink unto damnation.

Concerning the Rothschilds, none of them were involved in the Bavarian Illuminati, nor did the Illuminati seek to establish a world government. Their ultimate political agenda was to separate church and state, as freethinkers were being persecuted at the time by the Church.

Concerning Hitler, he simply rode the wave of anti-Semitism and anti-Communism that dominated the German conservative paradigm. He an the German political right were opposed to Freemasonry, Kabalah, etc. In fact, the Nazi propaganda machine under Goebbels invented or revived most of the anti-Illuminati and anti-Masonic conspiracy theories that are parroted even today on this very forum.

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo


I'm sorry, I'm not personally insulting you, but to someone who's not a Freemason, you sound THOROUGHLY brainwashed

I would never be a Freemason.

I'm a female... but that's not why. I come from a long line of Freemasons, and I'm actually related to Ulysses S Grant distantly, a very famous Freemason... So I do qualify for Eastern Star.

However, I wouldn't be a Freemason, not just because of what they've been accused of, but because you almost never know what you're supporting and you can't question anything. You carry out what the society is, the front-liners doing good community work to give the club a good image while the strings are being pulled by the elders and elite in whatever way they want.

I would not give myself to something I know literally almost nothing about, other than the constant conspiracy accusations they're bashed with, and how no one learns about Freemasons in school, or how many of the huge major events in world history--and present day--are all connected to Freemasonry, or major political and world leaders and activists who triggered these events were Freemasons. I think those are just too many coincidences.

My uncle, who's a direct descendant from the Freemasons I'm related to, is a Freemason. He has no wife, no kids, and isn't employed, so I'm thinking that the Freemasonry is taking up most of his life's devotion. He doesn't look like the same person anymore. He's spoiled himself rotten with technology and food too... and talking to him is the same as talking to other Masons--in my opinion, they sound very brainwashed and naturally unquestioning of anything.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by LeonoraTenen

 

Leonora, thank you for your thoughtful answers. I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree. You and I have radically different interpretations on what Kabalah and Freemasonry actually are.

For example, one cannot use Kabalah for evil because Kabalah is an inward journey that points out the Path of Return. Granted, one can use Magick for evil purposes, but that's a different subject, and those who do so only eat and drink unto damnation.

Thank you for being receptive to the conversation. Not only do you seem to know the most here, but you also seem to be understanding about people's concerns enough to not be-little, patronize or condescend.

To the point:
So they eat and drink unto damnation? Isn't that heaven for a hard left-hand pather?
Look, there is an annihilating anti-cosmic (and a-causal) force which desires the destruction of form.
This is what Kliphothic Anti-Kabbalah is all about. Working with that force and doing its bidding.

The reverse side of the tree is the anti-matter version of the Ten Sephirot. And there is no damnation other than separation or annihilation. That is what they desire. A separate Godhood, without Godhead present and constantly above them like is the case with the right hand path (of Faith and subjugation).

As you should know, much of Chaos Magick, is aimed at superceeding the causal realms where karma reigns and attaches itself to incidents. If you go to the projector and change the projected image, you are removing karmic attachments from the picture.

And I'm not saying they aren't deceived into thinking that they are exempt from karma when in fact, there is no exemption to it. They believe they are doing matter a favor by freeing it from its physical state and, (as any Kabbalah student would have heard countless references to) "raising the sparks" to meet their true state of chaotic freedom and bliss. Without the confines of the physical 10-fold prison that the Demiurge (God: the chief demon) constructed as the original Chaos Magician.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Concerning the Rothschilds, none of them were involved in the Bavarian Illuminati, nor did the Illuminati seek to establish a world government. Their ultimate political agenda was to separate church and state, as freethinkers were being persecuted at the time by the Church.

I would argue that it is history which states that Mayer Amschel Bauer (who later changed his name to Rothschild) was the funder (and co-founder) of the Bavarian Illuminati.
It was his son Nathan who "stole" the wealth of England after the Battle of Waterloo in 1815.

Are you saying this is false? If so, then please prove it.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Concerning Hitler, he simply rode the wave of anti-Semitism and anti-Communism that dominated the German conservative paradigm. He an the German political right were opposed to Freemasonry, Kabalah, etc. In fact, the Nazi propaganda machine under Goebbels invented or revived most of the anti-Illuminati and anti-Masonic conspiracy theories that are parroted even today on this very forum.

Masons tend to look at surface propaganda and official stories (spin control) and use this material as their "factual" evidence. Denying absolutely everything that asserts government conspiracies are or have taken place.

OK.. nothing is ever a conspiracy. Just keep consuming folks.

On Nazi's and the Occult:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.whitedragon.org.uk...

On the House of Rothschilds & Israel:


On Israel & 9-11:

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Do you really think I did not do that prior to asking you?

All that turns up was an article written several years ago that says they should have been charged for treason, not, as you positively asserted, that they were charged with treason. So I will ask you again, where is the evidence that they were charged with what you say?

In one of the greatest "trading with the enemy" scandals of the war, U.S. Assistant Attorney General Thurman Arnold announces that William Stamps Farish Sr. has pled "no contest" to charges of criminal conspiracy with the Nazis. Arnold discloses that Standard Oil of New Jersey (later Exxon) of which Farish is president and CEO has agreed to stop hiding patents from the U.S. for synthetic rubber, which the company has in its possession. Missouri Sen. Harry Truman later roasts Farish in front of his committee investigating home front wrongdoing, an event that raises Truman's profile and makes him a plausible running mate for FDR in 1944. The exposure of the scandal is widely believed to have contributed to Farish's sudden death from a heart attack in November of 1942.

Farish was the principal manager of a worldwide cartel between Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey and the I.G. Farben concern. The merged enterprise had opened the Auschwitz slave labor camp on June 14, 1940, to produce artificial rubber and gasoline from coal. The Hitler government supplied political opponents and Jews as the slaves, who were worked to near death and then murdered.

After the war, Farish and Bush ended up in Congressional Court. They were both fined. Farish received a heavier fine than Bush. And it was the stress and "humiliation" of the trial that led to Farish's death soon after the guilty verdict was handed down.

I'm trying to find the hard evidence and for whatever reason, it's not as easy today as it was a few months or a couple years ago. Will continue looking.

It is true, regardless of what you want to try and spin this to be. It just makes you sound more disingenuous.
Do you honestly believe it's all BS?

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

However, I wouldn't be a Freemason, not just because of what they've been accused of, but because you almost never know what you're supporting and you can't question anything. You carry out what the society is, the front-liners doing good community work to give the club a good image while the strings are being pulled by the elders and elite in whatever way they want.

No offense, but your view of Masonry seems 180 degrees out of whack? Your uncle doesn't sound like he would make a very good Mason in my opinion. Masons are required to be of sound mind and body. Most are family men, and all the ones I know are either employed or have their own businesses. The ones that become unemployed have a trusted network of friends to help them find employment.

There are not elders or elites in our organization, so that part just doesn't make good sense, and if you have a family full of them, you should know this.

Masonry can become time consuming if someone volunteers repeatedly for more and more duties and responsibilities, but wives are invited to the majority of events, and all participation is voluntary.

Out of the $70 per year that I pay in dues, I think something like $14 of it goes to our Grand Lodge of Florida, and the rest stays in my Lodge to use as we see fit, which barely pays the insurance and light bill for the Lodge. If the Grand Lodge is using my $14 to take over the world, then more power to them! If they can do it with a small organization and $14 per year, then why does Sally Struthers need $30 per month from the entire nation just to feed some kids expired foods? If my Lodge, or anyone one in my Lodge decides to do some fundraising, we have to identify what the fundraising is for, and we have to pass through 100% of those funds to the identified charities. We keep nothing, and nothing goes to the Grand Lodge.

It would be nice if people with so much supposed interaction with Masons would at least ask some questions of their friends and family members before regurgitating BS they saw on the interwebz.

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo


I would become a mason. I have thought about it for years but never actually seek admission; only read and research it. The older I become the more I question my solo travel in this world and do seek to be apart of some thing that would help me to seek the light and make it shine like a light house that guides ships during the dark nights but can still never replace the full moon bright.

Despite the conspiracy theories I see the mason as a place where good men can be made into better men. I do not know many Brother Masons or they are very good at keeping this secret society a secret. However since I believe in a Supreme Being I am sure that Freemasonry would not run contrary to my belief nor I of it.

I still hope to one day be accepted as a Mason I feel that this would help me greatly in finding the light that would be the missing link to the meaning and purpose of my being here on earth.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
It is true, regardless of what you want to try and spin this to be. It just makes you sound more disingenuous.
Do you honestly believe it's all BS?

You claim something that did not happen (treason convictions) and I am disengenious? Nice try. You keep looking.

reply to post by Masonwannabe


If you haven't had any luck finding a Freemason to sponsor you among your family, friends or co-workers, you could try contacting a Lodge near where you live either by mail or email or even just dropping by a half hour before a scheduled meeting. Best of luck to you!

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
It is true, regardless of what you want to try and spin this to be. It just makes you sound more disingenuous.
Do you honestly believe it's all BS?

You claim something that did not happen (treason convictions) and I am disengenious? Nice try. You keep looking.

Farish and Bush were found GUILTY of treason and both paid fines. If I said the words "convicted of treason", then I am sorry for not choosing more carefully not to say "convicted" but rather "indicted". Because that was what happened. I never believed them to have served time and I never said they served time.

This happened. You can say it didn't until you are blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, regardless of what I can or can't find, it is obvious that they committed treason and they were accused of treason and Farish paid the larger fine of the two.

John D Rockefeller was also on record using the excuse that he "does not run the daily operations of Standard Oil". That is why he was able to escape being charged himself.

Do you have a problem with this story? Do you believe this is a fabrication, or are you just trying to shoot out my tires in an obviously poor-mannered way?

This isn't a legal trial here and if you want to put burden of proof on me for historical accounts, you can shove it.
I'm not being paid for this. I don't owe you or anyone else reading this A THING. Do you hear me?
I owe you NOTHING. You can take this information or leave it.

I could care less how you or anyone else feels about it, or me. I'm not even trying to lead horses to water. Just speaking my OPINIONS and if you want to discard every word I say, feel free. You would be a total idiot to do so and it just shows your unwillingness to adapt to new information that goes against your pre-conceived notions of reality.

And let's get one more thing straight:
In this forum, I have the right to say whatever I FEEL LIKE saying (as long as it doesn't violate T&C).
Therefore I have the right to say "Rockefellers and Bushes, two of the most powerful families in this nation helped Hitler and the Nazi's."
You have a right to say "prove it"..
And I have the right to say "blow it out your ___."
End of story.
The reader has the right to believe what they want. That is not my care, concern or responsibility.

I am stating fact, regardless of the burden of proof. I EXPECT YOU to do your part if it matters to you.

It is a fatal flaw of our society that people rely on information being brought to them on a platter, to think about anything or to give a damn. And even if it does get served straight into their mouth as a paste, they could care less. We are all so easily led astray for these reasons. Apathy and laziness. You are a shining example of this in how you're approaching this debate. You will not bother to look on your own. And make up your own mind for yourself. You want me to impose my belief construct on you with demonstrable evidence.

That's a weak-minded trait which isn't the mark of a self-preserving society. We each have a responsibility to stand guard over our own liberties because who else can we trust to do so, when corruption is so widespread?

It is also a fatal flaw of our class-biased legal system that PROOF must be served up on a platter for people to even know what to believe about something, even if the proof isn't needed to see what is right in front of you.

PROOF CAN SO EASILY BE DESTROYED!!! (or suppressed)
Judges and Congressman (congressional courts) can be bought off.
This system favors the elite for this reason ($$$$). And then they can get away with literally mass murder by opening their wallets.

Chew on that!

ON EDIT:

I'm not saying people should be convicted, or found guilty of a crime, fined etc.. etc.. if there is NO EVIDENCE or proof of their guilt. That is what makes our society civilized and other societies NOT civilized.

BUT, I think when something has enough context and witnessed wrongful doing, the culture shouldn't let it slide and view the suspects as innocent if there is sufficient suspicion of guilt, even if evidence is not able to be found.

Like if you were to say OJ Simpson IS INNOCENT, simply because he was found "not guilty", when there is good reason to believe the trial was mis-handled and proof was not able to be found valid without a shadow of a doubt. Our culture pretty much agrees, he killed those people.

Somehow "suck it" comes to mind, but I'm a smart ass.

Remember, in a logical, rational world, the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

Originally posted by KSigMason
Remember, in a logical, rational world, the burden of proof lies with the accuser.

I simply don't care... It is your responsibility to do your due diligence and research it yourself.

It is a mistake for you to wish to be told how to feel. Why don't you figure it out for yourself, you self-admitted smart ass? I'm not holding any of your hands anymore.

If you wish to come across as a shill, keep going like you are. Because you are digging your own hole.

It is a matter of history that the Bush and Farish families were Nazi war profiteers.
I'm telling you that they were fined. I learned of this FROM their family who I'm connected to.

If you don't believe me, that is your prerogative.. you just make yourself look like you're trying to hide something and cover for the guilty party. I think you should choose your battles more wisely than to stand with a sinking ship.
But that is your choice. Go on then.