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Would you want to be a Freemason?

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posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by network dude


I am not sure if you know or not, but for those who don't, Ronald Reagan was not a freemason. He was given the title of Honorary 33rd degree from the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite. He never joined masonry or went through any degrees. I liked him and think he would have made a good mason, but he chose not to join.
(FYI)


Just a brief correction: Reagan was not an honorary 33rd degree from the Scottish Rite. He was never a member of the Scottish Rite, or any other Masonic body.

The Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States presented Reagan with a certificate honoring him for his career in public service. This certificate did not make him a Mason or a Scottish Rite member, honorary or otherwise.

On a personal note, I did *not* like him, he funded terrorism in Nicaragua and Afghanistan.
edit on 11-4-2012 by Masonic Light because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
I need to check those 2 books out...


The Urantia Papers:
Paper 66 = 66.5 "Organization of the One Hundred"
Wherein I found (in my mind) the link to understanding the 10 Spheres...

Paper 70 = 70.9 "Human Rights"
Wherein I found (in my mind) the link to the 10 paths (7 Verticals and 3 Horizontals)...

Paper 70 = 70.12 "Allocation of Civil Authority"
Wherein I found (in my mind) the link to the 12 paths (Diagonals)...
I called them "Barred Practices"

The Urantia Papers (Free Online Display)
urantiapapers.freeurantia.org...

The names "Jehovah, Boaz, and Jachin... were interpreted according to a particular craft/magic that I learned in Wippler's book... There in is this thing where a word is given... and sounding it to rythm that repeatedly slows itself down until there is only the appearance of a word and/or words.
In this case it is (in my mind) implied to "Be Us" & "You Have All" & "You Can"
So it is what I call the 3 Pillars...

The mystery of the Elements/Suits you will find in the "Urantia Papers" as well...



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 

Some people are saying we are "blood-letting devil worshipers." We don't blend God and the Devil in any way in any part of Freemasonry. Where in our ceremonies do you get this?

Blavatsky even admits she was never a part of any recognized, regular Masonic body. Her writings have no bearing on actual Freemasonry or our ceremonies/rituals.

Actually Jefferson is only suspected to have been a Mason, but no one can verify this because no record exists. I've never heard of Payne or Jefferson wanting to wipe Christianity off the face of the map.

There is no universal or central authority over all of Freemasonry. Nor did the Illuminati have any influence on Freemasonry. The .s of the various bodies of Freemasonry though are democratically elected each year.

Actually Prince Phillip is not the . of the York Rite. The York Rite structure here in America is not the same used in the UK nor is the leadership of the UK Masons the same outside the UK. In the American style York Rite there is no single one leader, but 3 leaders who each govern their respective body. They currently are Ted Harrison (MEGGHP - GGCRAM), George Sellars (MPGGM - GGCCMI), and Bill Koons (MEGM - GEKT).



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
When George Bush gave his inaugural speech, saying "We lit a Fire in the Minds of Men.", he is referring to the book by James H Billington "Fire in the Minds of Men". This man is pictured at Reagan's 33º ceremony.

Ugh. Reagan was only given an honorary certificate which means he doesn't hold any actual membership or title. He was never a 33º nor went through any Masonic ceremony or ritual.


Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Lady Gaga was raised in a Freemasonic Lodge/Hotel.

LOL...what?!



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


Thanks for the correction.

It's OK, I know you butter your toast on the left side. That's why we don't talk politics. In the end, The Jackass, and the Elephant will both be just as dead. As will we.

I do have an extra ticket to the RNC, wanna go?



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 02:50 PM
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nanu nanu

Would you want to be a Freemason? if they did what they say they do yes, but no..



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Should I assume your name is a double-meaning? ... the 2nd meaning a refence to being a fan of Albert Pike?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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The reason I don't like getting into these debates with masons directly, is because it always comes down to an argument over semantics.
And I get the distinct impression like I'm arguing with a guilty party who covered his tracks and is defiantly proclaiming "You can't prove a THING!".

You're being deliberately shifty.. you're like the guard to a vault of wisdom whose job is to obscure the truth.

Plus, it's been set up in a way where there is always Occam's Razor to hide behind, or nature. It's truly a genius MO.

Reminds me of when cartoon characters grab a bush and run, with it in front of them... you can see the bush moving, but after you catch them, they say... it was just a BUSH! And you can't prove it wasn't because all you saw was the bush, not them in the act.

There's always a mundane explanation... just for the profane.

I'm not saying any of you know what is above your opaque ceiling of compartmentalized knowledge.
And if you did, you wouldn't say it here on an internet forum and admit it to us (me).

It would be asinine for any of us to expect you to divulge this information.
Therefore we aren't even having an honest conversation, since you are forbidden to share the truth with me.

So why should I even engage you, when your motives and honesty SHOULD inherently be in question for that very reason?? It's a waste of energy for me, since your purpose is entirely to mislead people away from what they think they know. It's slight of hand techniques.
edit on 12-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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And another thing... I know there is no official mention or reference to BAPHOMET within Freemasonry.

However, I know quite a few freemasons in LA.
All of them have a big poster of Baphomet on their wall.
These same people attend the Pasadena Golden Dawn temple and we used to have O.T.O gatherings at our house, where I lived with one of them. He was the Worshipful Master of a Lodge in LA. If I give the specific Lodge name, it would be too easy for you to look him up and then you could report back to him that I'm talking about him on an online forum. Not that you would... I just don't know you wouldn't and that's not something I want.

We had lots of philosophical conversations, me as a Kabbalist, who had wisdom on that topic he hadn't learned, even though he was MUCH more advanced at practical Kabbalah than I am. I'm more into the theory.

He was connected in TV, film and music industry.. the people who used to come to our house for OTO events were (many of them) big wiggers in Hollywood. That's where I learned that OTO run MTV.

You say there are no "official" connections between these different groups.
I say there doesn't need to be any "official" connections, when there are SO MANY UN-OFFICIAL connections.
To expect any evidence of OFFICIAL connections is so naive and ludicrous.. it's either stupid or dishonest.

They go hand in hand. The rites and ceremonies of the Epopts are taken from ancient Kemetic and Druidic magickal ceremony. It may be diluted so that hicks from North Carolina can still be a part of it and serve as worker bees in the lower eschelons, and you can obscure that as much as you want. All it does is make you look dishonest to someone like me.. or simply ignorant to these parallels.


edit on 12-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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To get back to the original question "Would you want to be a Freemason?" , my personal answer is, no. And Ill tell you why.

Freemasonry at its very core is UN-American. Yes, that's right. American was intended to be a open and free society with little or no pressure from "Groups". Besides, the name Freemasonry is quite misleading, there is nothing free, or anything to do with the actual building with stones. Masonry is purely about its own survival and of its members. This may not be the mindset of the individual members but as a whole, it is.

It is unconscionable for anyone who has taken a oath to the United States of America, and then take a oath to another competing cause. You can not server two masters, or you will end up being treasonous to one or the other, or both.

If you break your oath to the U.S. you face imprisonment and a fine. If you break your oath to the Masons, you face death. Which would you honor?

The grand secret the masonic organization hide with all their combined efforts is really quite simple. Another name for the organization might be "Free and accepted cherubim"


One Sunday morning our Sunday School class was discussing the basics of the book of Genesis. Our teacher brought out that the Tree of Life was symbolic of the promise of eternal life that believers have in Jesus Christ. So it hit me…why would God guard the tree of life and who or what could it be that is guarding the way to Him (the Tree of Life)?

All I could think of was that Satan is the only one that truly guards the way to Christ. Is he? Does God have him guarding the way to Christ? This is the topic of this paper. First, let's take a look at the verse in question. It comes from Genesis 3:22-24:

"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."


www.soldierofchrist.com...



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
The reason I don't like getting into these debates with masons directly, is because it always comes down to an argument over semantics.
And I get the distinct impression like I'm arguing with a guilty party who covered his tracks and is defiantly proclaiming "You can't prove a THING!".


That's a rediculous stance and has no legs to stand.

I say you're secretly a Mason but cover your tracks so no one knows. Prove I'm wrong with verifiable facts.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by MattNC

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
The reason I don't like getting into these debates with masons directly, is because it always comes down to an argument over semantics.
And I get the distinct impression like I'm arguing with a guilty party who covered his tracks and is defiantly proclaiming "You can't prove a THING!".


That's a rediculous stance and has no legs to stand.

I say you're secretly a Mason but cover your tracks so no one knows. Prove I'm wrong with verifiable facts.


Why are you cherry picking my quote and only responding to the least damning part of my statement?
Can't you address the parallels I put forth instead of jumping on the ankles of what I said?

I just don't think you can take away from the "meat n' potatoes" of what I'm saying, so you resort to critiquing isolated parts.

I can't prove to you with verifiable facts that I am not a secret Mason, nor do I care to. It makes no difference.
I see where you're going with it, but it's kind of avoiding the real issue, which lies in the rest of what I said.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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And why can't any of you Masons explain to me, why an old man, who was the Commander of his Shriner's Lodge (Florida, Mahi temple) for 2008-2009 would say on camera "Yes, I am Lucifer, pure and virtuous, wholesome and innocent.. individual.. who is out to help people. How can you say anything bad about me?" ???

... and then instantly divert the conversation to the Children's Hospitals and good deeds by saying "What about the Hospitals?".

This guy is not a fake mason. This is a newsletter from his lodge, showing him and his credit is given.

issuu.com...

You won't touch that one with a 40 foot pole, will you?

Can't you talk about Lucifer with me? Is that forbidden? Do you just not know???




edit on 12-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
And another thing... I know there is no official mention or reference to BAPHOMET within Freemasonry.

However, I know quite a few freemasons in LA.
All of them have a big poster of Baphomet on their wall.
These same people attend the Pasadena Golden Dawn temple and we used to have O.T.O gatherings at our house, where I lived with one of them.
I would think people in both GD and OTO have shown a particular interest in esoteric subjects, right? So wouldn't it be natural for them to also be curious about Freemasonry?

It doesn't surprise me that people interested in esoteric subjects might join a group with an esoteric angle.

But the flip side isn't necessarily true—in fact, the esoteric side of Masonry is often overlooked or downplayed by men who join it for the social or charitable functions it serves. So the chance of an OTO member joining Masonry is higher than the chance of a Mason joining OTO.

Does that make sense?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
And why can't any of you Masons explain to me, why an old man, who was the Commander of his Shriner's Lodge (Florida, Mahi temple) for 2008-2009 would say on camera "Yes, I am Lucifer, pure and virtuous, wholesome and innocent.. individual.. who is out to help people. How can you say anything bad about me?" ???
I think he was screwing with some young punk who shoved a camera in his face.

No different than Buzz Aldrin punching the jerk who insisted that there was no moon landing.

People get tired of the badgering, and sometimes they snap.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
And why can't any of you Masons explain to me, why an old man, who was the Commander of his Shriner's Lodge (Florida, Mahi temple) for 2008-2009 would say on camera "Yes, I am Lucifer, pure and virtuous, wholesome and innocent.. individual.. who is out to help people. How can you say anything bad about me?" ???

... and then instantly divert the conversation to the Children's Hospitals and good deeds by saying "What about the Hospitals?".

This guy is not a fake mason. This is a newsletter from his lodge, showing him and his credit is given.

issuu.com...

You won't touch that one with a 40 foot pole, will you?

Can't you talk about Lucifer with me? Is that forbidden? Do you just not know???




edit on 12-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)


I'd be interested in knowing why he said it as well. It looks like his name is Bob Roslund. Shouldn't be too hard to contact him via the link you posted. Why don't you do that and report back here with his reply. It would likely be of interest to all.

(And by the way, I tend to think he was just having some fun at the expense of the character with the camera.)
edit on 12-4-2012 by HardToStarboard because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
And another thing... I know there is no official mention or reference to BAPHOMET within Freemasonry.

However, I know quite a few freemasons in LA.
All of them have a big poster of Baphomet on their wall.
These same people attend the Pasadena Golden Dawn temple and we used to have O.T.O gatherings at our house, where I lived with one of them.
I would think people in both GD and OTO have shown a particular interest in esoteric subjects, right? So wouldn't it be natural for them to also be curious about Freemasonry?

It doesn't surprise me that people interested in esoteric subjects might join a group with an esoteric angle.

But the flip side isn't necessarily true—in fact, the esoteric side of Masonry is often overlooked or downplayed by men who join it for the social or charitable functions it serves. So the chance of an OTO member joining Masonry is higher than the chance of a Mason joining OTO.

Does that make sense?


It makes perfect sense. I have come to this conclusion in the past, but how a person who is a young member of Golden Dawn, BOTA, EGC and OTO can become the WM of a major lodge in Los Angeles, is crazy to me. So you have a WM who is an esoteric occultist, who believes Lucifer is as much God as YHVH.

I am thankful for your patient and kind tone, instead of just calling me a biggoted anti-mason. You're actually being a good, helpful contributor and using insightful remarks, instead of just dis-qualifying what I'm saying.

I was told by this friend [and an older man (past WM at same lodge - who is also a deep high-level occult practitioner) that there is a split happening in their lodge and in many lodges.. between the members who want it to remain a mundane, mostly-secular organization.. and the members who want to see FM return to its mystical roots in magick and have more teachings regarding the higher "pathworkings" (for lack of a better word).

So there is this split occurring within the organization and they acknowledge the mystical roots are akin to other forms of magick, outside of the Lodge.

It's really difficult to separate FM from the occult. When so many world rulers have been masons and have also many times resorted to using "occult" wisdom as an edge (another tool or weapon) over their opponents.

The CIA teaches esoteric magick as a means for remote viewing. Another friend of mine studied Kabbalah with an elderly gent who was ex-CIA. He learned about it in the CIA and told of many types of divination techniques they use to gather information. It's just a tool.

Same goes with FM.. it descends straight from the Templars and they are the guardians of the grail.. the Cherubim, guarding the secret of Christ (as said in the above post by "All Seeing Eye").


edit on 12-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen


It makes perfect sense. I have come to this conclusion in the past, but how a person who is a young member of Golden Dawn, BOTA, EGC and OTO can become the WM of a major lodge in Los Angeles, is crazy to me. So you have a WM who is an esoteric occultist, who believes Lucifer is as much God as YHVH.


I'm not sure how you're coming up with all these connections. "Lucifer" is not a part of Freemasonry, nor the GD, BOTA, EGC, or the OTO anyway.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
I think he was screwing with some young punk who shoved a camera in his face.

No different than Buzz Aldrin punching the jerk who insisted that there was no moon landing.

People get tired of the badgering, and sometimes they snap.



Originally posted by HardToStarboard
(And by the way, I tend to think he was just having some fun at the expense of the character with the camera.)


I'm not buying that... he was so ready with the whole spiel of ..."virtuous and pure, wholesome and innocent, how can you judge me?"
C'mon guys. He wasn't joking.. it just seems disingenuous and reachy to say that.

I'm not saying I can prove he was being serious, but sometimes in conversations you have to trust that your fellow conversationalist is being honest with you and themselves and really taking a look at what is happening, instead of bending their discernment (and interpretations) to fit what they want to believe.

I think anybody watching this, as an un-biased entity, taking it at face value... would conclude that he was NOT joking, but was taken off guard, by a rude Christian ambush journalist.

I agree it was rude and audacious. But I don't think it is entirely honest to jump to the conclusion he was joking.
That is like saying "Richard Ramirez" (the night stalker) was joking when he said he killed all those people.
The only person who would say such a thing would be either him, or his defense attorney.

But thank you for at least responding on that instead of ignoring it like last time I posted it here in this thread.
edit on 12-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen

Originally posted by MattNC

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
The reason I don't like getting into these debates with masons directly, is because it always comes down to an argument over semantics.
And I get the distinct impression like I'm arguing with a guilty party who covered his tracks and is defiantly proclaiming "You can't prove a THING!".


That's a rediculous stance and has no legs to stand.

I say you're secretly a Mason but cover your tracks so no one knows. Prove I'm wrong with verifiable facts.


Why are you cherry picking my quote and only responding to the least damning part of my statement?
Can't you address the parallels I put forth instead of jumping on the ankles of what I said?

I just don't think you can take away from the "meat n' potatoes" of what I'm saying, so you resort to critiquing isolated parts.

I can't prove to you with verifiable facts that I am not a secret Mason, nor do I care to. It makes no difference.
I see where you're going with it, but it's kind of avoiding the real issue, which lies in the rest of what I said.


Ok, I'll shred the rest of your opinion.

First off, if you don't have the desire to prove anything to anyone, cannot a Mason feel the same way? They have no obligation of proof anymore than you.

Vault guard? What if there is no vault and no treasure to guard? How do address a person who is convinced there such a treasure? You can't offer proof something does not exist. Please explain how you get that done. Maybe someone can help you then. Don't site speculative books and legends. Address MY point.




I'm not saying any of you know what is above your opaque ceiling of compartmentalized knowledge.


OK, I can claim the same for any church, school, club, city, state, country, etc etc.




It would be asinine for any of us to expect you to divulge this information.


Again, what if there is simply nothing to share?


So why should I even engage you, when your motives and honesty SHOULD inherently be in question for that very reason?? It's a waste of energy for me, since your purpose is entirely to mislead people away from what they think they know. It's slight of hand techniques.


You're the one throwing the rocks and claiming there are "secrets of the NWO". Why should a Mason engage you? Don't be self centered and think the Masons owe you anything. Much like you owe them nothing.



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