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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by colbe
Dear colbe,
A) I'm glad I make you smile. Yes, we differ, but making people smile and laugh is something I love to do....always has been.
B)
Protestants forever stick with God only requires that we believe He is the Savior.
WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THIS?? I was brought up a Protestant...not the same kind of Protestant as lonewolf or NuT, but nevertheless a PROTESTANT (my Grammie was Catholic, until she married my Grandpa, who had been divorced...so she switched to High Episcopal...the earliest memories I have of church are the incense swinging, the votive candles, the Eucharist -- including the transubstantiation thing -- the whole 8.8 yards).
My mother, from a very tender age, was a real fan....used to walk there herself as a little kid....taught Sunday school (which is where my Dad first laid eyes on her, with her little flock as she brought them in for their blessing)...we went to church religiously (pun intended)....she was the acolyte director for years and years...both of my brothers were acolytes (I was not, but I might have been if I weren't totally uninterested. I did however, go to Sunday school, sing in the choir, etc.)
When I was about 16, I stopped going. After that, I started learning things outside of the faith, that helped me to understand what it was about....
Eventually even my mom stopped going. We both "lost religion."
Now, if my Grammie had been able to marry my Grandpa in the Catholic church (if he had not been "excommunicated"), I would have been brought up Catholic. But I wasn't. One of my mom's sisters married a Catholic, and their one child was brought up Catholic.
So, I do know what I'm talking about. Please, colbe, stop lumping all Protestants together. It's just unfair, inaccurate, and shows belligerent intolerance and .... well, please.
Just .... stop. The Protestant bicker among themselves the same as you do with "Protestants."
That is my issue with religion.
We are human, we really don't know. Each of us is different, unique, and MUST find our own way....just as we each lead different lives, even within the same household, we are completely unique.
Why would anyone expect that we ALL share the same spiritual knowledge, awareness, needs, or doubts?
Love,
wildtimes
I said the above because so many Protestants simplify Salvation, justification.
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
I gotta share, your dear Grandmother was baptized Catholic then became Episcopalian like your Grandfather. If this is correct,
you realize Episcopal sacraments (except water Baptism and Marriage) are not valid, no Apostolic Succession. The Eucharist does not become Our Lord, it remains bread and wine. As "high church" as they desire to be that's the facts. Look at the falling away of their hierarchy, accepting homosexuality and women priests. Many are converting to the the RCC because of what's happened.
If this is correct,
you realize Episcopal sacraments (except water Baptism and Marriage) are not valid, no Apostolic Succession. The Eucharist does not become Our Lord, it remains bread and wine. As "high church" as they desire to be that's the facts. Look at the falling away of their hierarchy, accepting homosexuality and women priests. Many are converting to the the RCC because of what's happened.
As "high church" as they desire to be that's the facts. Look at the falling away of their hierarchy,
accepting homosexuality and women priests.
Many are converting to the the RCC because of what's happened.
The bible is not that complicated, it is man that has made the message complicated. Listen to the Holy Spirit and he will guide you and in fact dwell within you so that you may know for certain the he is real. He will separate your spirit from the spirit of the world so that you may learn all things if you simply believe the Holy Spirit is in you and choose to do what it says.
Do you understand? This is the good news. The Spirit lives in you and all you have to do is listen to him. If you can believe this than you can follow Christ. I don't think you even need to read the bible if you continue to take of the bread and wine, which is to listen to the words of the Holy Spirit and follow what the Holy Spirit guides you to do.
Listen to the Holy Spirit and he will guide you and in fact dwell within you so that you may know for certain the he is real. He will separate your spirit from the spirit of the world so that you may learn all things if you simply believe the Holy Spirit is in you and choose to do what it says.
Do you understand? This is the good news. The Spirit lives in you and all you have to do is listen to him. If you can believe this than you can follow Christ.
I don't think you even need to read the bible if you continue to take of the bread and wine,
. . . no Apostolic Succession.
I don't think you even need to read the bible if . . .
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe
He was
touched by the good thief's actions, as Dismus was dying. This one of
the three types of baptism, the baptism of desire. The other two,
water baptism and baptism by blood, martyrdom.
I wish I could just add stuff to the gospel. Congratulations Colbe, you just called God a liar. You are claiming in fact He IS a respecter of persons. That He does require one thing from person A to be justified and a completely different thing from person B.
Ephesians 4:5-6 ~ "There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father, who is over all and in all and living through all."
Paul: "One Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM.
Try going by what the Bible says and not what men in the church say. Oh that's right, you believe the Bible isn't an authority whatsoever.
I remember God saying that He "magnified His Word above His own Name". And we all know how He feels about His own name.
edit on 15-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe
. . . no Apostolic Succession.
The Roman church killed the legitimate people who would have been in line, during the Arian wars.
They were replaced by Pagans with no connection to Christians from which to inherit whatever thing you image is supposed to be handed down.
The people who are in power now (the "orthodox" faction) killed the real Christians (the Arians) and took it over.
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe
Are you a practicing Catholic?
No, I am not, nor have I ever been officially a Catholic. My only point is that I am thoroughly familiar with the Church, on an intimate level, so you need not be concerned over me.
Maybe you should just be happy that I am not attacking you or the Church.
edit on 14-3-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)
bring judgment on yourself.
17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
18 But some men will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee my faith by works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 *Was not Abraham, our father, justified by works, offering up Isaac, his son, upon the altar?
22 Seest thou that faith did co-operate with his works: and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled, saying: *Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God.
24 Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe
bring judgment on yourself.
And what is that judgment Paul says will come from taking the bread and wine unworthily? Three things will happen to those who partake unworthily, what are they?
PAUL
IS A ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST WHO CONFECTED THE EUCHARIST.
christianity.about.com...
After Jesus died, Simon Peter, one of Jesus' disciples, became a strong leader in the Jewish Christian movement. Later James, most likely Jesus' brother, took over leadership. These followers of Christ viewed themselves as a reform movement within Judaism yet they continued to follow many of the Jewish laws.
At this time Saul, originally one of the strongest persecutors of the early Jewish Christians, had a blinding vision of Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus, and became a Christian. Adopting the name Paul, he became the greatest evangelist of the early Christian church. Paul's ministry, also called Pauline Christianity, was directed mainly to Gentiles rather than Jews. In subtle ways, the early church was already becoming divided.
Another belief system at this time was Gnostic Christianity, which taught that Jesus was a spirit being, sent by God to impart knowledge to humans so that they could escape the miseries of life on earth.
In addition to Gnostic, Jewish, and Pauline Christianity, there were already many other versions of Christianity being taught. After the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the Jewish Christian movement was scattered. Pauline and Gnostic Christianity were left as the dominant groups.
The Roman Empire legally recognized Pauline Christianity as a valid religion in 313 AD. Later in that century, in 380 AD, Roman Catholicism became the official religion of the Roman Empire. During the following 1000 years, Catholics were the only people recognized as Christians.
In 1054 AD, a formal split occurred between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. This division remains in effect today.
Where is the Apostolic Succession to connects Protestants to Christ?
There is not evidence that it is anything more than a legend.
St. Peter is buried in the Basilica.
He did not, as far as I know, support the idea that the Bishop of Rome had preeminence over the entire world.
Ignatius of Antioch, a bishop who knew John the Apostle didn't exist?
www.earlychristianhistory.info...
In many ways, then, we cannot even be certain there was an Ignatius of Antioch.
This tradition is based upon the seven letters, as well as others, mentions of him by other early Christians, and by a medieval document, Martyrium Ignatii. The Martyrium
The writing that makes the claim that Ignatius was a student of John was written in the Middle Ages.