another verse in the Gospel to show OSAS is a lie, a heresy from men

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

What makes you believe Luke is evil?

He hates the book of Acts, and to do so he must condemn the gospel written by the same author as well to not look ridiculous.

That's the purpose and the plan at least.

reply to post by wildtimes

Hey NuT...
urm, sorry to interrupt, but "hath" is NOT past tense.
It is King James 16th century English. (I know this because I am in theater in the Renaissance Festivals and we are REQUIRED to study that form of English...and I also know it from reading original documents from the time)

I made a mistake, thanks for pointing that out, you're correct wild. However, I also said every verb in that verse I linked is in the past tense in English, and the third person past imperfect tense in the Greek meaning they continue on forever and the third person means they are spoken to or about someone else than the speaker himself.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Explain how the Thief did the will of the Father in this context, without using John 6:40. Thanks.

*raises hand*

1. Knew Christ was innocent and he was not.
2. Believed Christ was who He claimed He was.
3. Trusted and affirmed He is Lord.

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." ~ Romans 10:9-10

Correct A+
That's all it takes, that's not to say it's okay to mistake Grace for Permission, but then again no one can fool God. He knows the heart, and He is unwilling ANY should perish; such as when the Pharisees brought an adulterer to Jesus, and said that by the law she is to be stoned to death - and after dismissing them with "he who is without sin may cast the first stone", he asked the adulterer where her accusers were - and after saying they had all left, Jesus declared, "Nor do I accuse you."

Unwilling any should perish. It's a free gift. All of mankind has been forgiven at the Cross - all one has to do is believe He did it, and they will receive eternal life. The Blessed Hope. The Gift. The Cross.

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Explain how the Thief did the will of the Father in this context, without using John 6:40. Thanks.

*raises hand*

1. Knew Christ was innocent and he was not.
2. Believed Christ was who He claimed He was.
3. Trusted and affirmed He is Lord.

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." ~ Romans 10:9-10

Correct A+

That's all it takes, that's not to say it's okay to mistake Grace for Permission, but then again no one can fool God. He knows the heart, and He is unwilling ANY should perish; such as when the Pharisees brought an adulterer to Jesus, and said that by the law she is to be stoned to death - and after dismissing them with "he who is without sin may cast the first stone", he asked the adulterer where her accusers were - and after saying they had all left, Jesus declared, "Nor do I accuse you."
Unwilling any should perish. It's a free gift. All of mankind has been forgiven at the Cross - all one has to do is believe He did it, and they will receive eternal life. The Blessed Hope. The Gift. The Cross.

No, no, no.

Read your own prophets friend. Salvation isn't a free gift, God's grace is a free gift. Jesus redeemed you, He didn't justify you.

Read the words in caps in Our Lord's message. Proof, it's very hard to
change a person's beliefs even when you give evidence.


www.openheaven.com...

an excerpt...



April 1, 2012

Message to Kevin Barrett

Will You Let Me Take You Through the Fires of Purification?

...Oh hear Me, My people. Why do you listen to the hirelings and false teachers and prophets? Did I not say in My word that not all that say to me ‘Lord’ ‘Lord’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, save those that do the will of the Father who is in heaven? Then why do you still go about doing your own will and tell yourselves that you are My bride? My people, you have been lied to by the enemy of your soul. Seek Me in these things. Surely I will reveal My truth to you. I love you, My dear children, and it is My desire that each of you share My throne with Me. But unfortunately only a remnant shall overcome. For too many have listened to the lies told by the false shepherds and prophets. THEY SPEAK OF HOW YOU EACH ARE ALREADY CLEANSED AND ADORNED IN RIGHTEOUSNESS SIMPLY BY YOUR BELIEF ON MY NAME. These are all lies, My people. For does not My word say that he who DOES righteousness is righteous? Yes, My people, you are made righteous by your faith in Me, but it is fulfilled by your obedience to My voice. IT IS NOT IMPUTED TO YOU BY A ONE-TIME CONFESSION OF MY NAME. Oh, My people, you have been lied to. Read My word for yourselves. Why listen to those that fatten themselves by fleecing My sheep? I have not sent many of the shepherds that are out there. They have sent themselves for their own glory and their own profit. Oh, My people, did I not say in My word to judge them by their fruit? Then where is the fruit, My people? Oh, but those that have itching ears care not about the fruit. THEY WANT TO BE TOLD ALL IS WELL AND THAT THEY SHALL PROSPER if they simply believe on My name and My promises. Lies, lies, lies, I tell you...

Post scripture. That's looks like a crapton of philosophical nonsense. If I want philosophy I can read Plato or Socrates, I want to live in the manifest presence of God Almighty, to behold His presence, to be so full of the Holy Ghost I can just walk through a graveyard and a bodies will rise from the tombs. That's what I want.

What does the Word of the Living God have to say?? Forget that garbage, Hell is filling it's balcony seats with the souls of dead philosophers.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


It doesn't say that...

It says, even those that are not forgiven will have their day before God...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

It doesn't say that...

It says, even those that are not forgiven will have their day before God...

There are two judgments friend:

1. "The Great White Throne Judgment" on earth at the end of the millennium. (On Earth)
2. "Judgment Seat of Christ". (In heaven before the wedding feast)

How does one's belief in OSAS affect their practice of Christianity?

It seems to me that either way you get baptised, follow the teachings of Jesus, take communion, etc...

Originally posted by cloudyday
How does one's belief in OSAS affect their practice of Christianity?

It seems to me that either way you get baptised, follow the teachings of Jesus, take communion, etc...

Because if you do not believe that once you are saved that you are forever saved, then you believe that you or someone else has the power to take you away from Christ's grasp and that you have more power than he, and he already says that NO ONE can take you away from him, that includes yourself. Once you seal the deal, you are his forever and no power in the universe can take you from him.

So basically if you do not believe in once saved always saved, you believe Christ is a liar and that makes you antichrist.

Taking communion is not a requirment, the jesus cookie does not save you (R.C.C. Eucharist), nor does baptism by water. Those are just rituals. Following what Jesus taught will take you far but...he was a jew and he was an observing jew at that. Being a christian doesn't change what you are, it changes your spirit to be attuned to him so that you love and want to keep his commandments and it becomes a joy for you to do so, even if you have to die for it.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by cloudyday
How does one's belief in OSAS affect their practice of Christianity?

It seems to me that either way you get baptised, follow the teachings of Jesus, take communion, etc...

Because if you do not believe that once you are saved that you are forever saved, then you believe that you or someone else has the power to take you away from Christ's grasp and that you have more power than he, and he already says that NO ONE can take you away from him, that includes yourself. Once you seal the deal, you are his forever and no power in the universe can take you from him.

So basically if you do not believe in once saved always saved, you believe Christ is a liar and that makes you antichrist.

Taking communion is not a requirment, the jesus cookie does not save you (R.C.C. Eucharist), nor does baptism by water. Those are just rituals. Following what Jesus taught will take you far but...he was a jew and he was an observing jew at that. Being a christian doesn't change what you are, it changes your spirit to be attuned to him so that you love and want to keep his commandments and it becomes a joy for you to do so, even if you have to die for it.

Thanks, I'm not sure what I think. I do think baptism and communion are important, because they are in the Gospels and apparently the Church practiced them from the beginning (based on the Didache). But obviously there is more to being a Christian than performing rituals. As I recall, the Catholics pray for faith which reminds me of the Protestants praying to be born again. In both cases the person is praying for some confirmation from God that they experience spiritually.

Originally posted by cloudyday
How does one's belief in OSAS affect their practice of Christianity?

It seems to me that either way you get baptised, follow the teachings of Jesus, take communion, etc...

You're right, it doesn't. I had a revelation today, in fact this is gonna mess up most folks Theology and wreck some stuff up in Jesus' name...

Conditional Security AND Once Saved Always Saved are the most ridiculous and irrelevant doctrines in all of Christianity and have divided churches for hundreds of years.

There I said it, sorry just my gift. I'm a troubler like Elijah.


If people are worried about that they are not seeking His face, "seek and you shall find", "Seek me while ye can..", "He is a rewarded of those who diligently,.." Let me stress that, DILIGENTLY.. "Seek His face.."

If you were a reflection of Jesus Christ, Almighty God, and you are absolutely captivated it WONT MATTER!!! It's freaking irrelevant. Worry about seeking His face, concentrate on Him and His cross. Forget all the other crap, we're all dividing and arguing over irrelevant doctrine because we haven't been seeking His face. And if we haven't seen Him yet, perhaps it's our level of commitment to diligent seek Him.

reply to post by cloudyday

As I recall, the Catholics pray for faith which reminds me of the Protestants praying to be born again. In both cases the person is praying for some confirmation from God that they experience spiritually.

You don't need to pray for faith, just the act of you praying to him at all is an act of faith, people do not pray to God/Jesus at all unless they are at least open minded enough to consider he is real and that takes faith so they already have it. Protestants do not pray to be born again, we confess our sins and ask Christ to come into our lives and change us so that we are attuned to him and his will and that is how you become born again. If i see a catholic pray for faith, i just have to shake my head.

Catholics take confession a little too far when it comes to confessing to priests. You don't have to confess to them, the greatest priest in the universe is your advocate and you can pray directly to him and you most certainly do not need some Pope that claims to be Melchizidek. That dude can't do anything for you.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

If you were a reflection of Jesus Christ, Almighty God, and you are absolutely captivated it WONT MATTER!!! It's freaking irrelevant. Worry about seeking His face, concentrate on Him and His cross. Forget all the other crap, we're all dividing and arguing over irrelevant doctrine because we haven't been seeking His face. And if we haven't seen Him yet, perhaps it's our level of commitment to diligent seek Him.

I'll have to disagree with you here. I think it does matter. I have seen the type of nervous wreck christians who are so worried about not being saved that they confess their sins over and over and repeatedly make trips to the altar for the sinner's prayer and get baptised a dozen times until it turns them neurotic. Knowing that once you have been saved you are forever his gives them the confidence to be able to do what they need to do for his glory and gives them peace and then they are better equipped and better able to hear him and boldly spread the word.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

If you were a reflection of Jesus Christ, Almighty God, and you are absolutely captivated it WONT MATTER!!! It's freaking irrelevant. Worry about seeking His face, concentrate on Him and His cross. Forget all the other crap, we're all dividing and arguing over irrelevant doctrine because we haven't been seeking His face. And if we haven't seen Him yet, perhaps it's our level of commitment to diligent seek Him.

I'll have to disagree with you here. I think it does matter. I have seen the type of nervous wreck christians who are so worried about not being saved that they confess their sins over and over and repeatedly make trips to the altar for the sinner's prayer and get baptised a dozen times until it turns them neurotic. Knowing that once you have been saved you are forever his gives them the confidence to be able to do what they need to do for his glory and gives them peace and then they are better equipped and better able to hear him and boldly spread the word.

I've seen the problem you mention in myself and others, but I don't think OSAS fixes it. You can still worry that you aren't saved even if you believe in OSAS.

reply to post by cloudyday

I've seen the problem you mention in myself and others, but I don't think OSAS fixes it. You can still worry that you aren't saved even if you believe in OSAS.

Well, i don't think the problem itself is that they are worried about their salvation as much as they are worried about wether or not they truly believe, which is what your salvation is dependant upon. It's a serpent eating it's own tail so to speak. All they have to do is have the faith to confess their sins and accept that forgiveness, and perhaps some just can't get beyond it's really just that easy, maybe they feel like they need to do more but the glory of his salvation is that it is that easy. The works will come as a manifestation of your faith, it's not the way the catholic and muslim believe where your faith is a manifestation of your works...they've got it ass backwards.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

If you were a reflection of Jesus Christ, Almighty God, and you are absolutely captivated it WONT MATTER!!! It's freaking irrelevant. Worry about seeking His face, concentrate on Him and His cross. Forget all the other crap, we're all dividing and arguing over irrelevant doctrine because we haven't been seeking His face. And if we haven't seen Him yet, perhaps it's our level of commitment to diligent seek Him.

I'll have to disagree with you here. I think it does matter. I have seen the type of nervous wreck christians who are so worried about not being saved that they confess their sins over and over and repeatedly make trips to the altar for the sinner's prayer and get baptised a dozen times until it turns them neurotic. Knowing that once you have been saved you are forever his gives them the confidence to be able to do what they need to do for his glory and gives them peace and then they are better equipped and better able to hear him and boldly spread the word.

They have not met Him then, when they do it's irrelevant from that point on. If they cannot read John 6 and His prayer to the Father in the Garden of Gethsemane and have faith then it's an issue of no faith, they never met Him and they don't trust what he said in wither of those 2 chapters. Point them to Him and the need the baptism in the Holy Ghost.

Told you I'm a troubler like Elijah, lol, I wreck even stinking Theological ideas. I tell you one thing, no one prior to James Arminius was having this debate. It's only a few hundred years old. Get back to apostolic and Ephesians 4 Christianity and this becomes a non-issue.

Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

If you were a reflection of Jesus Christ, Almighty God, and you are absolutely captivated it WONT MATTER!!! It's freaking irrelevant. Worry about seeking His face, concentrate on Him and His cross. Forget all the other crap, we're all dividing and arguing over irrelevant doctrine because we haven't been seeking His face. And if we haven't seen Him yet, perhaps it's our level of commitment to diligent seek Him.

I'll have to disagree with you here. I think it does matter. I have seen the type of nervous wreck christians who are so worried about not being saved that they confess their sins over and over and repeatedly make trips to the altar for the sinner's prayer and get baptised a dozen times until it turns them neurotic. Knowing that once you have been saved you are forever his gives them the confidence to be able to do what they need to do for his glory and gives them peace and then they are better equipped and better able to hear him and boldly spread the word.

I've seen the problem you mention in myself and others, but I don't think OSAS fixes it. You can still worry that you aren't saved even if you believe in OSAS.

Correct, the problem is the doctrine's themselves, neither one should have been taught. That's the problem, not the argument between which one is correct. Either we believe what He said, which is the only was to be saved anyways, or we believe the doctrines of men that idiots developed who were at conflict with each other, Calvinists and Arminianists. I know one thing, the Apostles didn't argue this nonsense at the Jerusalem council in Acts chapter 15.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
...
Correct, the problem is the doctrine's themselves, neither one should have been taught. That's the problem, not the argument between which one is correct. Either we believe what He said, which is the only was to be saved anyways, or we believe the doctrines of men that idiots developed who were at conflict with each other, Calvinists and Arminianists. I know one thing, the Apostles didn't argue this nonsense at the Jerusalem council in Acts chapter 15.

Here is a quote on salvation from the 7th century. I know universal salvation is a heresy, but that is what I tend to believe. When Jesus thanked the Father that not one of His sheep was lost, I think He meant everybody past, present, and future. People focus too much on salvation. I think we should simply try to appreciate salvation and be thankful for it and live our lives accordingly as much as possible.

God belongs to all free beings. He is the life of all, the salvation of all - faithful and unfaithful, just and unjust, pious and impious, passionate and dispassionate, monks and laymen, wise and simple, healthy and sick, young and old - just as the effusion of light, the sight of the sun, and the changes of the seasons are for all alike; 'for there is no respect of persons with God.'

St. John Climacus, "The Ladder of Divine Ascent", p 4, Holy Transfiguration Monastery

reply to post by Lionhearte

That makes it sound as if it was a fictional book, written by someone who couldn't be consistent with their story-telling.

So how is that ridiculous to you?
It would seem a thing more likely than not, to me.
What evidence do you have that because a book is somehow in the "official" canon, then it is without error?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Peter didn't strike anyone dead. The Holy Spirit did as an example, just as Peter didn't raise anyone from the dead, the Holy Spirit did residing in Peter. Christians are not gods, but we have His Holy Spirit inside us, and He does the miracles to glorify Jesus Christ through us. The same Holy Spirit who wrought miracles through Jesus Christ to glorify the Father.

So how does this argue against Peter striking people dead?
Acts 5
Look! The feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out!” At once she collapsed at his feet and died.

In this story, Peter set up basically a sting, where he already knew the answer but tempted Sapphira to lie by asking her the question in order to strike her down.