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another verse in the Gospel to show OSAS is a lie, a heresy from men

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posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

That's a lie:

Then why don't you show where it says Harpazo in the Bible?
I was saying, in that form.




posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

That's the purpose and the plan at least.

So you can read minds?
You are just throwing out accusations in the role of the Devil.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

That's a lie:

Then why don't you show where it says Harpazo in the Bible?
I was saying, in that form.


I already did in the other thread, go look. It appears in 4 different NT verses.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

That's the purpose and the plan at least.

So you can read minds?
You are just throwing out accusations in the role of the Devil.


No, the devil only accuses the brethren.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

No, the devil only accuses the brethren.

Your statement serves to further illustrate my earlier point.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by cloudyday
 





I've seen the problem you mention in myself and others, but I don't think OSAS fixes it. You can still worry that you aren't saved even if you believe in OSAS.


Well, i don't think the problem itself is that they are worried about their salvation as much as they are worried about wether or not they truly believe, which is what your salvation is dependant upon. It's a serpent eating it's own tail so to speak. All they have to do is have the faith to confess their sins and accept that forgiveness, and perhaps some just can't get beyond it's really just that easy, maybe they feel like they need to do more but the glory of his salvation is that it is that easy. The works will come as a manifestation of your faith, it's not the way the catholic and muslim believe where your faith is a manifestation of your works...they've got it ass backwards.


I think faith and works are a feedback loop. As you follow the teachings of Jesus you gain more faith that they are true, so then you try harder to follow those teachings?



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by cloudyday
 





I think faith and works are a feedback loop. As you follow the teachings of Jesus you gain more faith that they are true, so then you try harder to follow those teachings?


Well, i think its more along the lines of that he reveals himself more to you the more you open yourself up to him and his will and the more you know him the more you want to do, i mean he is THE King after all and none are better at inspiring you than he is.
edit on 10-4-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

No, the devil only accuses the brethren.

Your statement serves to further illustrate my earlier point.


Mine needs no illustration.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by cloudyday
 





I think faith and works are a feedback loop. As you follow the teachings of Jesus you gain more faith that they are true, so then you try harder to follow those teachings?


Well, i think its more along the lines of that he reveals himself more to you the more you open yourself up to him and his will and the more you know him the more you want to do, i mean he is THE King after all and none are better at inspiring you than he is.


Yup, it's a relationship. Think of it like when we were still in the wrold dating, when we first met someone they mesmerized us, we wanted to know everything about them, we called them all the time just to hear their voice, we asked them every question we could think of, we thought about them all day and night, when we went to bed they were on our mind, when we woke up all we could do was think about them, we couldn't learn too much about them too fast.

The same way we grow in our relationship to Him.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by cloudyday
 





I've seen the problem you mention in myself and others, but I don't think OSAS fixes it. You can still worry that you aren't saved even if you believe in OSAS.


Well, i don't think the problem itself is that they are worried about their salvation as much as they are worried about wether or not they truly believe, which is what your salvation is dependant upon. It's a serpent eating it's own tail so to speak. All they have to do is have the faith to confess their sins and accept that forgiveness, and perhaps some just can't get beyond it's really just that easy, maybe they feel like they need to do more but the glory of his salvation is that it is that easy. The works will come as a manifestation of your faith, it's not the way the catholic and muslim believe where your faith is a manifestation of your works...they've got it ass backwards.


I think faith and works are a feedback loop. As you follow the teachings of Jesus you gain more faith that they are true, so then you try harder to follow those teachings?


Hi,

Automatic "works" from having faith is not true. And the opposite you said "faith is a manifestation of works." That would make you a robot. God wishes you always to freely choose for Him.

Some Protestants insist that it is the faith that does the work in us not we ourselves. Faith (God's gift to man through His Word / Eph 2:8; Rom 10: 17) is a necessary motivation for us to obey but it does not make us obey. Man has a choice to resist or yield, therefore the obedience is our responsibility. It is our obedience in response to faith that brings justification (and Eternal Life). Justification then brings "perfect" or "complete" faith, the proof we have that Eternal Life (See John 3:36!). Further, Eternal Life is something we possess in degrees and that corresponds to how close we have grown to Christ. It is Eternal Life we are given not a promise of the eternal possession of that life. That Life, however, is so powerful that nothing in all the universe, but one's own self will and sin, can remove us from Christ's hand (Romans 8:35-39).



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 



Automatic "works" from having faith is not true.


True faith produces works, and the whole reason we were saved was to do good works for the Lord. A "faith" that doesn't produce good works for the Lord's Kingdom is a "dead" faith as James says.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by mretgis
 

it only makes sense that one can fall out of grace and it is possibly in all religions...

Jesus died not only to save us from sin but his blood also freed us and gave true independence.

Christ still does this very effectively all around the world, even in places like China and India...

Jesus Christ is quite popular for a reason and I suspect it is for other reasons that the naysayers claim.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by mretgis
 

it only makes sense that one can fall out of grace and it is possibly in all religions...

Jesus died not only to save us from sin but his blood also freed us and gave true independence.

Christ still does this very effectively all around the world, even in places like China and India...

Jesus Christ is quite popular for a reason and I suspect it is for other reasons that the naysayers claim.


I've found that what helps me best is to focus on Him and remaining close to Him as possible, and seeking intimate time with Him and the flesh dies. His statement about this rings so true in my personal walk:

"If you love me you'll obey me."

Very true, sin doesn't even taste good for a season anymore, it's repulsive.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

That's a lie:

Then why don't you show where it says Harpazo in the Bible?
I was saying, in that form.


I already spent the time to do that, listed all the verses, linked to the Blue Letter Bible, and you didn't reply.

Not making that error again.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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post removed by user
edit on 19-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I already spent the time to do that, listed all the verses, linked to the Blue Letter Bible, and you didn't reply.
You are the one claiming to be an expert in Greek. I already posted the list of words based on Harpazo.
ἁρπάζουσιν
διαρπάζω
ἁρπάζει
ἁρπάζειν
ἁρπάσει
ἥρπασεν
ἁρπάσαι
ἁρπαγέντα
ἡρπάγη
ἁρπαγησόμεθα
ἁρπάζοντες
ἡρπάσθη
None of these are read, harpazo. What you were doing is listing verses that have words in them with the same Stong's number as harpazo. It is a verb, while you pretend it is a noun. You claim it ends confusion when it only adds confusion. I believe you use the word harpazo only to follow the practice your cult leader. You claim you invented the word, so could not have possibly copied it from someone else.

Not making that error again.
What mistake, trying to "correct" me? Then don't and from now on, it will be just me correcting you. Sounds good to me.
edit on 19-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



It is a verb, while you pretend it is a noun.


I know it's a verb, so is the English Theological term "rapture". I already told you why I do this numerous times already. I don't want to spend 3-5 pages arguing with some person lead by the spirit of the Pharisees just sent here to derail a thread because he's too stupid to get past the word "rapture". And denies the doctrine because the word "rapture' doesn't appear in his NLT or NIV or KJV Bible in the English translation.

These dudes couldn't care less that the Latin Bible has the word, or the Greek terminology is harpazo. I do this for a specific reason. I've seen about 100 threads derailed because people are idiots. Through experience I've found to call the "rapture" the "harpazo" and it removes their tool of division before they can use it. Effective teachers and even lawyers remove their opponents tools and arguments before they can even utter the words. It's best to always stay on the offensive instead of constantly being on the defensive.



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I know it's a verb, so is the English Theological term "rapture".
So why do you keep calling it "The Harpazo"?

I already told you why I do this numerous times already. I don't want to spend 3-5 pages arguing with some person lead by the spirit of the Pharisees just sent here to derail a thread because he's too stupid to get past the word "rapture". And denies the doctrine because the word "rapture' doesn't appear in his NLT or NIV or KJV Bible in the English translation.
I haven't ever noticed anyone doing that on this forum, so your argument does not hold water. This is one of the reasons I think you use this term just to follow the example of your cult leader.

These dudes couldn't care less that the Latin Bible has the word, or the Greek terminology is harpazo. I do this for a specific reason. I've seen about 100 threads derailed because people are idiots.
"These dudes" are not on this forum, so again, it looks like just an excuse to come up with a plausable explanation for why you behave like a cult member.

Through experience I've found to call the "rapture" the "harpazo" and it removes their tool of division before they can use it. Effective teachers and even lawyers remove their opponents tools and arguments before they can even utter the words. It's best to always stay on the offensive instead of constantly being on the defensive.
Can you give a link for one of these "100 threads" supposedly derailed over the term Rapture? Otherwise I have to go with my explanation, which is that your use of the word Harpazo identifies your orthodoxy within a particular "rapture cult".
edit on 19-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



So why do you keep calling it "The Harpazo"?


Why do people call the event "the rapture"? If from now on if I say "the harpazo event" will you be happy?




I haven't ever noticed anyone doing that on this forum, so your argument does not hold water. This is one of the reasons I think you use this term just to follow the example of your cult leader.


I've been doing forum apologetics for about a decade no, and currently I talk on 4 different ones. One of them being this one.

There's life outside of ATS, did you know that? Search for the rapture threads here even, generally before the first page is through someone will claim the word "rapture" isn't in the Bible.


Can you give a link for one of these "100 threads" supposedly derailed over the term Rapture? Otherwise I have to go with my explanation, which is that your use of the word Harpazo identifies your orthodoxy within a particular "rapture cult".


I don't care if you agree or not, you can look at all the rapture-themed threads if you want to, I have better things to do.


edit on 19-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

. . . I don't care if you agree or not, . . .

You haven't given me anything to agree or disagree on.
I guess my main point is that you engage in a game of pretend, where you present a front as if you actually went through some sort of thought process to arrive at your conclusions but it is just a sham, where the reality is that you accept a predigested belief system, as a whole, in a cult member type fashion.
You do not give any evidence that your story is anything other than part of that sham, for why you use the terminology that you do, other than to identify with your cult leader who did all the thinking for you.




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