America there is no freedom

All you can do now is get away from targeted areas.They ARE going to hit you.I doubt an occupation is in order, maybe a decapitation strike.It really makes no difference what I want or any other person, outside of the Cabal that really runs things in the world.You're also the victim of being part of a religion that supremacists have hijacked.That's why you will be attacked for nukes.Because although Israel and the US have them we will not use WMDs like hydrogen or Neutron weapons at all and your whack ball leadership probably would or do something stupid like give them to Hamas.My evil leader will not let you do that so at any cost they're going to do it
The face of my country has changed ALOT because of that.And it was Saudi subjects who did most of it.
I hope you and I somehow survive our leaders.

Originally posted by hmdphantom

Many of those students have been imprisoned.

........ some people who were manipulated got emotional and then they got what they deserved

No...No they didn't. And you don't deserve to be somewhere where you have to post nonsense like this to survive. Best wishes.

Originally posted by Indigo5
reply to post by hmdphantom

 

LOL...There is irony in the fact that Iranian Propagandists can use American forums to deride our way of life.

It is because our government trusts it's people to decide for themselves what is true in a free market of ideas and opinions. We enshrined this principle in our founding documents.

I pray someday that you might enjoy the same, in the meanwhile please take no offense that I find your propaganda unconvincing and that I have no intention of responding to your baiting.

Again...just to drive my point home...would you like to comment on the Iranian government and thier failings? Any criticisms of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad you would like to offer?

You are unable because (a) you work for the Iranian Government or (b) You would be arrested...or likely both.

Either way your inability to do so discredits everything you have posted.

If it is going to be logical , I continue.

There are lots of problems with Ahmadinejad. Suppose I discuss them , then :

1. How can you confirm that I am telling you the truth ?

2. How would you confirm that I am telling you this from inside Iran ?

3. Will you trust me ?

Your answers : Noway , noway , no.

Then maybe I tell you that people criticize Ahmadinejad everywhere they decide , how are you going to confirm this ?

You have per-judged that I am paid by Iranian government. So , there will be no way you trust me.

Then you just come back to your media , you connect your mind cable , you get the information.

And what will be my share of informing you ? nothing.

WE are all choosing being and we will get what we deserve.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by hmdphantom

Many of those students have been imprisoned.

........ some people who were manipulated got emotional and then they got what they deserved

No...No they didn't. And you don't deserve to be somewhere where you have to post nonsense like this to survive. Best wishes.

So you don't know about democracy (majorities right)

or

maybe you like to see the picture like you used to see.

reply to post by beezzer


Well im not too sure about that, especialy after the NDAA Martial Law.

But my point is, I do not believe it too much to ask that people here can have a rational discussion without the interjection of contradictory none sense about mythological beings thanks very much.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Ixtab

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Ixtab
reply to post by beezzer

 

Could we keep this too a rational discussion based in reality and not invisible sky fairies?

You say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to . . . .

Errr no, I say things based on reality. You say things based on fantasy.

Next time you stone a heretic to death for displeasing the lord, let me know how that works out for you in a court law.

Really?
You're going to turn a fine propoganda/hate America thread into whether God exists?

Don't believe in him/her/it/they?
Fine.
YOU are free to believe however you want to.

I am also FREE to believe the way I want to.

Pity some other counties are not so FREE with beliefs.

repeating the word free is what is going to bring you freeeeeeeeedom.

Keep on , free free free free furee.

I just wonder you don't have any piece of logic , that you just come to US political madness forum and you want to hear about flowers are more colorful in US.

Very logical.

Originally posted by Ixtab
reply to post by beezzer

 

Well im not too sure about that, especialy after the NDAA Martial Law.

But my point is, I do not believe it too much to ask that people here can have a rational discussion without the interjection of contradictory none sense thanks very much.

My point is, that we are born with freedoms. They are granted by our very existance. Man/political leaders/religious leaders/idealogues spend the rest of their lives trying to take them away.

But they can only be taken with our permission.

Sure, our current pols have NDAA.
Our previous one had the Patriot Act.

Regardless of who it is, regardless of what you believe, those freedoms that you were born with, are yours to keep or yours to give away.

You have that freedom of choice.

Originally posted by hmdphantom


But this was just a media game manipulating people inside Iran

God blessed Western Farsi media channels were just claiming that there has been a fraud in the election (mercenaries inside Iran were helping them) , some people who were manipulated got emotional and then they got what they deserved

Because they were taking country into a state that majority of Iranian people didn't want it.

I don't say brutality is what I support , but when some manipulated people are going to do what majority of people don't want , there is no way but forcing them to stop.

First, I find it funny that one could blame the media for manipulating the people inside of Iran.....after all, the media in Iran is controlled by the Iranian government. This raises a perplexing contradiction:

The Telecommunication Company of Iran (TCI) is now partially owned by the Revolutionary Guards and, in practice, is under their control. The Organized Crime Surveillance Centre, which was created by the Revolutionary Guards, and their official website Gerdab have actively participated in tracking, identifying and arresting netizens. On 20 May 2010, Ebrahim Jabari, one of the Revolutionary Guard commanders, officially confirmed the creation of a cyber-army, which has been responsible for the targeting of “destructive” networks and the arrests of hundreds of netizens. SOURCE

Secondly, when people -- students -- are peacefully protesting (even if they have been "manipulated" into believing that their government was "evil" ) , shouldn't that be their right? Isn't it harsh to imprison people for believing something that is contrary to the governmentally endorsed "truth"? Isn't it harsh to subject people who are being, as you say, "manipulated" to being whipped ? Yes ...whipped!

At least in the United States, being ignorant is still one of our freedoms as well! In Iran, being "ignorant" or "manipulated" is a punishable offence.

Not that I need someone from Iran to tell me that American freedoms are slowly becoming tarnished by bad democracy, but this is a problem I can see for myself, and it is only becoming worse as time goes. I just would like to see the reactions of those who oppose the OP when they finally realize that our freedoms will soon be obsolete, because there will be no constitution to abide by, just a tyrannical ruler making up the rules....

reply to post by hmdphantom


Get over yourself. You've proven just with this thread how threatened you are with actual freedom. You talk as if you know the subject, but from the time I've spent with Middle East cultures, I can assure you that if exposed to actual freedom, some (like yourself) would probably soil your tighty-whitys.

reply to post by benevolent tyrant

First, I find it funny that one could blame the media for manipulating the people inside of Iran.....after all, the media in Iran is controlled by the Iranian government. This raises a perplexing contradiction:

really ?

There are over fifteen American founded networks providing NEWs and propaganda mixture for Iranian people.

So , why didn't you bother reading my post to come with your NEWS and Links ?

And again.

This thread is about

America can not bring freedom for US

Maybe I should fail.

Maybe I should change my way.

Or

Maybe you should choose a UFO forum to provide the facts that are just related to UFO.

Then you come to US political madness to see what is wrong with US.

Then your mind will not make connections and can not get conclusion because of categories in the forums.

You will always come and go .

With no true intention or purpose.

Originally posted by hmdphantom

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by hmdphantom

Many of those students have been imprisoned.

........ some people who were manipulated got emotional and then they got what they deserved

No...No they didn't. And you don't deserve to be somewhere where you have to post nonsense like this to survive. Best wishes.

So you don't know about democracy (majorities right)

Free Democracies protect minorities as opposed to beating and imprisoning them.

Minority rights are a cornerstone of democracy because every member of the majority understands that they are in some way, in some belief, race, gender, religion, political opinion... or have been at some time in the past or will be in the future...a minority

Minority opinions are protected in the USA, because everyone at some point will be in the minority.

I find the concept that you would vehemently defend your government beating, arresting, and killing those with a minority opinion...well, sad. There has to be a better gig for you there?

It is another principle of freedom in the USA...happy to educate.

By the way...I wouldn't trust the Iranian government estimate as to what the majority of Iranians think

Maybe if you had a free and competitive media...?

So the whole majority/minority bit failed from the begining, even before considering the right of the government to opress a minority.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by hmdphantom

 

Get over yourself. You've proven just with this thread how threatened you are with actual freedom. You talk as if you know the subject, but from the time I've spent with Middle East cultures, I can assure you that if exposed to actual freedom, some (like yourself) would probably soil your tighty-whitys.

So , Jesus intended to do this.

The real catastrophy is that you people are just moving from one position to another.

You don't have an axis.

You just get to whatever you canto show that US government is the Jesus.

So , what can I do ?

How can I prove the opposite ?

Just walk away with the brick in your head then some to me with freedom and other big concepts.

reply to post by hmdphantom

You gave your freedom away, willingly.

Your choice.

I'd rather keep mine.

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by hmdphantom

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by hmdphantom

Many of those students have been imprisoned.

........ some people who were manipulated got emotional and then they got what they deserved

No...No they didn't. And you don't deserve to be somewhere where you have to post nonsense like this to survive. Best wishes.

So you don't know about democracy (majorities right)

Free Democracies protect minorities as opposed to beating and imprisoning them.

Minority rights are a cornerstone of democracy because every member of the majority understands that they are in some way, in some belief, race, gender, religion, political opinion... or have been at some time in the past or will be in the future...a minority

Minority opinions are protected USA, because everyone at some point will be in the minority.

I find the concept that you would vehemently defend your government beating, arresting, and killing those with a minority opinion...well, sad. There has to be a better gig for you there?

It is another principle of freedom in the USA...happy to educate.

Maybe if you had a free and competitive media...?

how many western network channels provided for Iranian people post by hmdphantom

By the way...I wouldn't trust the Iranian government estimate as to what the majority of Iranians think

That is what your media tells you.

And when minority of people are going to change the dominion which majority doesn't want , govt should act in favor of majority.

just a question to the OP...

were you born in iran???

i know several people who did grow up in iran, that are now americans...

they do know english, alot better than another surging minority in the us, however, your sentence structure tells me that you were raised english speaking...

so i ask, are you really Iranian???

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by hmdphantom

 

You gave your freedom away, willingly.

Your choice.

I'd rather keep mine.

So , keep it distant and don't take it over to Iran

Your definition , your agenda.

But your government is more aggressive than that.

ETA : Just let the freedom you brought to Iraq and Afghanistan get hard.

Originally posted by hmdphantom


There are over fifteen American founded networks providing NEWs and propaganda mixture for Iranian people.

Wow...you had that stat quick at hand. What's you day job again?

let me ask you this...the word "founded" caught my attention...pre-revolution? They owned by Americans now? How many free, American owned, news organizations are based in Iran today?

Not talking about CNN, BBC or other news that the Iranian people hack from sattelites when they are desperate for News from the outside.

I'd be interested in a list?

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by hmdphantom


There are over fifteen American founded networks providing NEWs and propaganda mixture for Iranian people.

Wow...you had that stat quick at hand. What's you day job again?

let me ask you this...the word "founded" caught my attention...pre-revolution? They owned by Americans now? How many free, American owned, news organizations are based in Iran today?

Not talking about CNN, BBC or other news that the Iranian people hack from sattelites when they are desperate for News from the outside.

I'd be interested in a list?

Arrogant people like this can be found ........

Originally posted by hmdphantom
This thread is about

America can not bring freedom for US

Actually, the thread title is America there is no freedom. Comparing relative freedoms between the US and that of other nations is certainly valid in any such discussion.

But you have raised an interesting new slant to this thread...... you have retitled the thread to imply that the US cannot bring freedom for......... who? For Iran?

I will agree that the United States cannot bring about freedom for Iran or, for that matter, any country. Real freedom can only come about through the will of the people of Iran or of any people. The US can, at best, help to facilitate things. Nothing more. If a people are content with their government, no amount of media manipulation can alter the will of the people. In that same vein, no amount of government control can subjugate a people unwilling to be controlled. Eventually, the people will rise up.

But, seeing as you have reminded me that this thread is about whether Freedom exists in America, let us dwell on that topic.

Philosophically, you are correct, there is no inherent freedom or lack of freedom. Morality is merely a concept. However, in the context of nations, those who founded the United States enshrine within their Constitution philosophical concepts that define aspects of what it means to be free.

First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[57]
Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
ETC. SOURCE