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Exclusive: Marines Nazi-Flag Whistleblower Comes Forward

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posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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With white supremacists and neo nazis using the symbols to disseminate hate on a daily basis, it is in extremely bad taste for units of the US military to make use of the same symbols. These symbols are not something from the past. You see them every time white supremacists or neo nazis show themselves.




posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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To me. This is the product of a lack of historical context and a group of well amphetamined young men trying to be "badass". So they adopt a "badboy" logo to prop it up. Some of the other examples of other sniper flags are an example of adopting a symbolism to invoke a "fear" response to their bad assedness. The SS were well known badboy badasses so with likely next to no historical context they adopt it. It is something warriors have done to bolster their courage by self elevation of prowess via brotherhood and symbolism since the first sticks and rocks were tossed in anger. Any way the argument is moot as the Corps is really clear on the issue and this is NOT considered a good choice for the obvious reasons stated many times in this thread. Those who continue to argue this is OK should take it up with the USMC
And as for the poster who immediately attacked the original source, LAME! Does not matter one iota where or who broke this photo. It is against regs.
Last Q for those who think this is A-OK. How would you feel if it was the cop at your window at a traffic stop? Big SS logo tall leather boots( motorcycle cop) and sidearm? I mean it does stand for "street squad" right? How about cops in full gear? you know armor, face shields, automatic weapons, I guess if they are "suburban SWAT" it is a good idea then?
Some times things are what they are, no matter what we excuse it with,eh?
APB



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by AmericanPitBull
Last Q for those who think this is A-OK. How would you feel if it was the cop at your window at a traffic stop? Big SS logo tall leather boots( motorcycle cop) and sidearm? I mean it does stand for "street squad" right? How about cops in full gear? you know armor, face shields, automatic weapons, I guess if they are "suburban SWAT" it is a good idea then?
I see several people asked this, so I am going to answer it.

If I saw one police officer with that I would make a complaint to his/her superiors, as that is not part of their uniform.

Now, as a consequence of this answer, I have to ask one thing: did these Marines use that flag during combat, to represent their unit (or whatever it's called)? Or was this just another case of people being "dumb for the photo"?


Some times things are what they are, no matter what we excuse it with,eh?
Things are always what they are, but each person interprets them all in their own way.



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by tagasbob
Here's a tangent: do you think it's impossible that nazi ideology could still exist? Why would you even choose to associate yourself with a symbol like this if you were on the allied side of things? The fact that this was adopted in Vietnam is even more cowardly as the war was only a few decades prior.

Why do you people act as if signing up to the military is an auto-pass for being the best person ever??? Ever think that symbols like this might exist to attract a certain type of person? symbols are not meaningless; especially in the military.

Finally, why woudn't the military spokeswoman say any of this stuff? Why did she go up and say "these pictures couldn't have been done with awareness of what the flag meant because that's not what the navy is all about"? Why not tell the truth - if that's what it is? The only thing I can ascertain is that the very existence of the real Scout Sniper flag is a complete embarrassment. I'm all for free will, but at some point there needs to be respect as well.

Finally, does a bunch of yahoos using nazi paraphenalia back in Vietnam make it okay just because that's what happened? What about the millions of those that died? Why is there no respect for the sacrifice of those people?


This isn’t used to attract Nazi-sympathizers or a “certain type of person”. Saying that shows your level of disrespect for military service. Do you feel better about yourself now?


As 29INFDIV and others have explained, the SS denotes Scout Sniper and is in NO WAY representative of Nazis. The use of SS is an old practice that is like a rite of passage for snipers.

The Marine Corps is steeped in tradition, many of which are not exactly common knowledge…or even acceptable outside the Marine Corps. All military units, especially Marines, practice some hazing rituals. Marines submit to these hazing rituals voluntarily because its Marine Corps tradition and we’re proud to be part of it. The brass (people in charge) certainly can’t openly condone such activities because of the outrage of people like some of you. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t well aware of these practices or haven’t participated in MANY of them.

Why does it BOTHER YOU? It’s been going on since before most of you were born and you obviously haven’t been affected by it or it wouldn’t be “breaking news” right now!


I have an idea… How about people stop being so sensitive about things that go on inside the Marine Corps that don’t pertain to them, that they don’t understand and that have absolutely no bearing on their life??



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 11:03 AM
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I have an idea… How about people stop being so sensitive about things that go on inside the Marine Corps that don’t pertain to them, that they don’t understand and that have absolutely no bearing on their life??


Are you saying the mindset of the military corps of the Western nations has no bearing on the lives of the rest of us?

Seen any kids gunned down by choppers lately?



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by tagasbob
Here's a tangent: do you think it's impossible that nazi ideology could still exist? Why would you even choose to associate yourself with a symbol like this if you were on the allied side of things? The fact that this was adopted in Vietnam is even more cowardly as the war was only a few decades prior.

Why do you people act as if signing up to the military is an auto-pass for being the best person ever??? Ever think that symbols like this might exist to attract a certain type of person? symbols are not meaningless; especially in the military.

Finally, why woudn't the military spokeswoman say any of this stuff? Why did she go up and say "these pictures couldn't have been done with awareness of what the flag meant because that's not what the navy is all about"? Why not tell the truth - if that's what it is? The only thing I can ascertain is that the very existence of the real Scout Sniper flag is a complete embarrassment. I'm all for free will, but at some point there needs to be respect as well.

Finally, does a bunch of yahoos using nazi paraphenalia back in Vietnam make it okay just because that's what happened? What about the millions of those that died? Why is there no respect for the sacrifice of those people?


This isn’t used to attract Nazi-sympathizers or a “certain type of person”. Saying that shows your level of disrespect for military service. Do you feel better about yourself now?


As 29INFDIV and others have explained, the SS denotes Scout Sniper and is in NO WAY representative of Nazis. The use of SS is an old practice that is like a rite of passage for snipers.

The Marine Corps is steeped in tradition, many of which are not exactly common knowledge…or even acceptable outside the Marine Corps. All military units, especially Marines, practice some hazing rituals. Marines submit to these hazing rituals voluntarily because its Marine Corps tradition and we’re proud to be part of it. The brass (people in charge) certainly can’t openly condone such activities because of the outrage of people like some of you. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t well aware of these practices or haven’t participated in MANY of them.

Why does it BOTHER YOU? It’s been going on since before most of you were born and you obviously haven’t been affected by it or it wouldn’t be “breaking news” right now!


I have an idea… How about people stop being so sensitive about things that go on inside the Marine Corps that don’t pertain to them, that they don’t understand and that have absolutely no bearing on their life??


I get the "OORAH!" it is needed to go and face death as is the brotherhood and bonding like hazing. To a point. When it makes you, my fellow American, feel separate, superior, and disdainful of those you represent in the field, it becomes every American's business because you work and fight for US and AMERICA so taking up a banned symbol is showing the disrespect for the Corps and the country you serve. It is the symbol of one of this nations greatest enemies, despite whatever "personal" interpretation one may wish to adopt. So I guess it boils down to how dare you tell those you serve and represent in battle as the "Greatest Nation" on earth we have no say in how we ALL are represented by those who kill in our name. How dare you take up the symbol of one of our greatest enemies and carry it into battle in OUR name.
APB



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by AmericanPitBull

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by tagasbob
Here's a tangent: do you think it's impossible that nazi ideology could still exist? Why would you even choose to associate yourself with a symbol like this if you were on the allied side of things? The fact that this was adopted in Vietnam is even more cowardly as the war was only a few decades prior.

Why do you people act as if signing up to the military is an auto-pass for being the best person ever??? Ever think that symbols like this might exist to attract a certain type of person? symbols are not meaningless; especially in the military.

Finally, why woudn't the military spokeswoman say any of this stuff? Why did she go up and say "these pictures couldn't have been done with awareness of what the flag meant because that's not what the navy is all about"? Why not tell the truth - if that's what it is? The only thing I can ascertain is that the very existence of the real Scout Sniper flag is a complete embarrassment. I'm all for free will, but at some point there needs to be respect as well.

Finally, does a bunch of yahoos using nazi paraphenalia back in Vietnam make it okay just because that's what happened? What about the millions of those that died? Why is there no respect for the sacrifice of those people?


This isn’t used to attract Nazi-sympathizers or a “certain type of person”. Saying that shows your level of disrespect for military service. Do you feel better about yourself now?


As 29INFDIV and others have explained, the SS denotes Scout Sniper and is in NO WAY representative of Nazis. The use of SS is an old practice that is like a rite of passage for snipers.

The Marine Corps is steeped in tradition, many of which are not exactly common knowledge…or even acceptable outside the Marine Corps. All military units, especially Marines, practice some hazing rituals. Marines submit to these hazing rituals voluntarily because its Marine Corps tradition and we’re proud to be part of it. The brass (people in charge) certainly can’t openly condone such activities because of the outrage of people like some of you. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t well aware of these practices or haven’t participated in MANY of them.

Why does it BOTHER YOU? It’s been going on since before most of you were born and you obviously haven’t been affected by it or it wouldn’t be “breaking news” right now!


I have an idea… How about people stop being so sensitive about things that go on inside the Marine Corps that don’t pertain to them, that they don’t understand and that have absolutely no bearing on their life??


I get the "OORAH!" it is needed to go and face death as is the brotherhood and bonding like hazing. To a point. When it makes you, my fellow American, feel separate, superior, and disdainful of those you represent in the field, it becomes every American's business because you work and fight for US and AMERICA so taking up a banned symbol is showing the disrespect for the Corps and the country you serve. It is the symbol of one of this nations greatest enemies, despite whatever "personal" interpretation one may wish to adopt. So I guess it boils down to how dare you tell those you serve and represent in battle as the "Greatest Nation" on earth we have no say in how we ALL are represented by those who kill in our name. How dare you take up the symbol of one of our greatest enemies and carry it into battle in OUR name.
APB


Where are you from? Are you misrepresenting yourself as an American? I can't stand people who do that. I have run into a lot of people on here that say their American and then it comes out that there from the UK or somewhere else and I believe you are one of them. How dare you. You want to lecture us on how we should know what the symbol means but in doing so you expose yourself because Americans know the symbol is not banned in the US. I do not know of any symbol that is banned in the US that is what European countries have done. Just your general writing about how you are so angry about how we aren't considerate of your country's feelings shows that you're just trying to deceive everyone into believing you are from the United States.

Symbols change in meaning over time and as far as I'm concerned these guys are just representing themselves as Scout Snipers SS and I'm sure it wouldn't matter if it was lightning bolts or Superman symbols people like yourself would be crying foul no matter what. The problem is you people are too damn sensitive acting all high and mighty. So what, the Germans used to use that symbol people need to quit whining. If a bunch of veterans get together and have a problem with it then I would take it is a legitimate complaint but this is just a case of some anti-American and anti-military liberals looking for something to complain about. The only atrocity here is the overreaction.
edit on 12-2-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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The Nazi's used symbols from the occult and from numerous cultures meant to reinforce the warrior knight and Aryan bloodline "history". It's not like these guys posed w/ a Swastika w/ the 33 deaths head (only secret societies our Presidents and corporate royalty belonged to in college do that).

The swastika is a good luck symbol found in American Indian, Nepalese and Buddhist cultures to name a few and a runic symbol in N Europe centuries before the Nazi's even existed.

The scout snipes can use whatever they want to use on their flags, anyone who has an issue w/ that feel free to take it up with your nearest Marine. Be sure to mention your opinion that Marine Scout Snipers are secret Nazi's / white supremacists while you're at it and please, videotape the results for youtube.

People are just way too excitable....



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by AmericanPitBull
 



I get the "OORAH!" it is needed to go and face death as is the brotherhood and bonding like hazing. To a point. When it makes you, my fellow American, feel separate, superior, and disdainful of those you represent in the field, it becomes every American's business because you work and fight for US and AMERICA so taking up a banned symbol is showing the disrespect for the Corps and the country you serve.


Marines ARE superior to people we face on the battlefield and we don’t need a flag or a symbol to demonstrate that superiority. Who said the use of the SS symbol is to feel superior to or show disdain toward other Americans?

You must feel inferior already.



It is the symbol of one of this nations greatest enemies, despite whatever "personal" interpretation one may wish to adopt.


A version of it was used in Nazi Germany…yes!


So I guess it boils down to how dare you tell those you serve and represent in battle as the "Greatest Nation" on earth we have no say in how we ALL are represented by those who kill in our name. How dare you take up the symbol of one of our greatest enemies and carry it into battle in OUR name.


The symbol is not something worn on a uniform or flown in battle…it’s typically a tattoo that is never seen. COME ON!! Get off your high horse already!



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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The only atrocity here is the overreaction.




Seen any kids gunned down by choppers lately?



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 

Pull up yer pissy pants pup. I am as American as you are. And you made my point for me like the period at the end of this sentence. It is a banned symbol by the Corps. like I said before take it up with them if you think it shouldn't be. As for the 'tude tword civilians you clearly disdain. It destroys the respect you may have earned via your service.
APB



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by AmericanPitBull
 


Hazing is also “banned by the Marine Corps” but that doesn’t stop us from carrying on with 236 years of tradition. Just because some wimpy civilians feel some of the things we do are barbaric (such as pinning on jump wings or kicking on a blood stripe) doesn’t mean they won’t continue.

I don’t believe the Marine Corps has ever taken a public opinion poll before instituting a new tradition.


Maybe pansies shouldn’t bother themselves with the practices of men or misinterpret symbols when they do not understand the meaning?



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


Wimpy civilians? There are many in the military who disdain such bullying practices. You going to call them wimps too?

Or do you just believe only a uniform can bring you honor?



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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yup billion dollar tech vs men with sticks.

brave as bro.



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by kn0wh0w
reply to post by theRhenn
 





Here is my take on it.. As someone said... SS/Sniper Scout Doesnt matter what it looks like. NOW... If they were IN ISRAEL I could see that being an issue.


please take a look at my new thread and tell me what you think.

SS is not synonymous with scout sniper.

read the article unbiased and tell me what you think.


Will do!



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by antonia
 



Wimpy civilians? There are many in the military who disdain such bullying practices. You going to call them wimps too?


If the shoe fits….

Listen, my point is this…there are traditions in the Marines that some people wouldn’t condone; even the Marine Corps leadership doesn’t condone. That doesn’t stop it from happening because Marines, in particular, LIKE to carry on these traditions. Things like this are part of the legacy (esprit de corps, brotherhood, rite of passage, etc). Some of these things might be "extreme" to those who have not lived it, but I would argue that being a MARINE is extreme and many things Marines do are extreme.


Or do you just believe only a uniform can bring you honor?


Not at all!! I’m saying people shouldn’t get uptight about things that Marines do that have no effect on anyone outside their circle.



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by AmericanPitBull
 


Hazing is also “banned by the Marine Corps” but that doesn’t stop us from carrying on with 236 years of tradition. Just because some wimpy civilians feel some of the things we do are barbaric (such as pinning on jump wings or kicking on a blood stripe) doesn’t mean they won’t continue.

I don’t believe the Marine Corps has ever taken a public opinion poll before instituting a new tradition.


Maybe pansies shouldn’t bother themselves with the practices of men or misinterpret symbols when they do not understand the meaning?


If it were about the affairs of MEN it would not include attitudes you show. Men are above boys club games.Gotta laugh you actually believe "No one understands me" is a valid argument after your teens.
As for the name calling.... grow up. If you don't get when you wear "the uniform" you rep something bigger than the Corps or all the services then you are a disgrace to it.
Used to be Death before Dishonor. Eff that anymore!
Now keep with the ASSumptions about me as they really make ya'll look like fools.
APB



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by antonia
 


Listen, my point is this…there are traditions in the Marines that some people wouldn’t condone; even the Marine Corps leadership doesn’t condone. That doesn’t stop it from happening because Marines, in particular, LIKE to carry on these traditions. Things like this are part of the legacy (esprit de corps, brotherhood, rite of passage, etc). Some of these things might be "extreme" to those who have not lived it, but I would argue that being a MARINE is extreme and many things Marines do are extreme.




What is your hang up with Marines...Oh it must be because you are Marine and you like to think you must better than everyone else because you are one. All branches of the service have traditions they like to engage in and part of their legacy. To think that somehow Marines are so different in this respect is false. Hazing has been banned because it's considered abuse and I'd say traditions that involve causing physical and mental harm to people have no place in society. Many members of the military share that opinion which is why it was banned.

Bottom line, the use of Racist symbols is against policy. You should know that as it's been written policy for at least 20 years. It can be argued that they didn't know or they felt it meant something else to them, but the authority in question is going to use the "accepted" definition of that symbol. So yeah, a few members of that unit are going to be missing some pay for awhile.
edit on 12-2-2012 by antonia because: forgot something



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by AmericanPitBull
 



If it were about the affairs of MEN it would not include attitudes you show. Men are above boys club games.Gotta laugh you actually believe "No one understands me" is a valid argument after your teens.
As for the name calling.... grow up. If you don't get when you wear "the uniform" you rep something bigger than the Corps or all the services then you are a disgrace to it.
Used to be Death before Dishonor. Eff that anymore!
Now keep with the ASSumptions about me as they really make ya'll look like fools.


Calm down…I know you feel inferior, and rightfully so, but not everyone can be a Marine!


As I’ve stated, the SS in this case represents Scout Sniper, a group you likely know next to nothing about. Please don’t try to read more into it than is there.

Thanks!



posted on Feb, 12 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by AmericanPitBull
 


It's too bad you weren't here to say that to my face but it's easy to act tough on the computer isn't it. Just how long would it take for you to get to the United States? As for the attitude I don't like people who lie about where they're from. Talking about our countries our greatest enemy. There's been more than a few of you on here trying to tell us how to vote how to act and now you're trying to tell us how to soldier. I get along fine with civilians it's Jack #s like you I don't get along with. The respect I earned while in the military isn't going to be tarnished by the likes of you but thanks for your concern. I don't expect someone like yourself to know much about respect.
edit on 12-2-2012 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



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