Missouri teen girl gets 'life' for killing 9yr girl to 'find out what it felt like'...

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple
reply to post by Glass

 

Okay. So it's understood that we're on opposite sides of this fence then. That's okay. You have your opinion, I have mine. I understand the jist of your thinking here. You want to study and understand why they do what they do.

I'm glad we understand eachother

Why? So we can treat them and make them better? Haven't we been trying to do that for hundreds of years now? Yes. Do we still have psycho's running loose? Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Our psychological methods are so much better now. We've advanced our technologies and our understanding of DNA sequences and brain functions, so we can tackle this problem now. If that's the case, again, why do we still have psycho's running the streets?

Our current psychology, based on the scientific method, has only been around roughly 150 years. It is far better than the medieval ideas that people do bad things because demons are influencing them, an idea that uneducated people today still cling to. However it is far from perfect. We shouldn't abandon the pursuit of knowlege just because it hasn't been 100% effective.

My best guess would be money my friend. You're right if you assume that we have the technologies and resources to tackle this. I'm sure we do. But the cold, hard fact of the matter is that there's no money in "fixing" these people in order to make a better society. Why would any pharma company, or any other company for that matter, shell out money to fix people when they won't get a return from their investment? If that sounds cold, it's because it is. There's no immediate short term monetary gain in making a better society, but there IS howver tons of money by shoving drugs like prozzzzac down our throats making us want more. And that's the way THEY see it. I certainly didn't make things this way, but that's the way things are and that's what we have to deal with. Big money is making their money at our expense and making our qualities of life worse in the process.

You're absolutely right. Money has allowed society to progress by leaps and bounds in the past millenia by providing incentive for people to work and create. But in modern society, the pursuit of money is surely causing stagnation. Most people/companies are more concerned with their own wealth than making any improvements on a societal level.

Look, I'm not some chest thumping neanderthal screaming for more blood. I want LESS blood. Read my posts and you'll understand that I'm a civilized, caring individual who just wants peace.

I understand, and I am sorry I made that comparisson, but sometimes you have to twist an arm to get a reaction.

But unfortunately we're not going to be able to do achieve that in a civilized manner anymore because that's just the way this world has turned. Money is king and human emotions are just pawns that big money plays to get more. It's chess game gone bad. And you know what? It's working for them. because here we are, at each others throats about this when there is only one realistic solution to this problem. Exterminate the problem.

I was nodding in agreement up until the last sentence. You're correct that in the short term, the most effective solution would be to exterminate all murderers, rapists, and other assorted psychopaths. However, the prison system is supporting workers while costing taxpayers money...it's a messy win-lose situation no matter the solution. At least my solution works toward a better tomorrow...it's a shame our leaders don't share this attitude.

And Nazi Germany isn't even a close comparison in my book because they were no better than the 15 year old girl in this story. They were killing for the sake of it. Or because they wanted to "rule the world". I don't want to rule the world. I want to make it a better place to live on.

Nazi Germany was killing for the sake of it, but with a twisted moral justification backing it. They wanted to make the world a better place by purifying humanity so that only Aryans remained. Obviously, this is considered evil by our standards, but to some of them it was a perfectly acceptable ideal. Your idea that anyone who is detrimental to society should be killed is similar, but more focused on a specific group.

I'll only touch on one more point as I'm running out of characters...

And please don't say that things like this take time. We've had all the time in the world to fix this problem ever since we could start recoognizing evil people for what they are.

But it's true, everything takes time. The problem is that we HAVENT been taking the time to fix our problems, just shoving them aside like what I'm doing at work right now!

Sometimes I almost feel like psychopaths are the new 'hated race'. Being emotionless, which btw I don't believe any psychopaths are completely, I mean Hitler even loved his mother, doesn't automatically make you bad. Some people think that any psychopath who ever commits any kind of violent act is eligible for extermination.

It seems awfully close to eugenics to me.

There is just something wrong with kids now days, no not all of them....

But look at the pictures of these kids the last few years that have comitted these horrible acts...


Look in their eyes.......look at their faces.........they are missing something....

Pharma, society, I dunno........

But what I do know is that its becoming more common..............

Theres a line from a song I heard years ago that makes me think

Well I know my anger is not politically cool But, brother we're in danger when kids can be so cruel as to kill for play, Dear God have mercy we're liven just like theres no judgment day

How about for the three stikes rule, when you get three felonies, we just kick you out of the country for life. We literally just take you and drop you in the middle of nowhere, we plant a chip inside of you, so that if you try to re-enter the country you'd be spotted and taken back. Seems simple to me, and guess what you don't have to kill anyone, and you save loads of money.

reply to post by andersensrm


Doesn't sound like that good of an idea. Tracking devices can be expensive and nobody profits from exile. Not to mention that three strikes is still potentially three dead people so this wouldn't solve anything.

This thread has inspired me to do something better with my life. I want to study psychology and perhaps try my hand at criminal psychology. If I don't feel like I'm making a difference, I could always go into any other field of psychology since it's such a broad field.

I think it would be a hell of a lot better than what I'm doing now, revising engineering drawings for big mining companies, just being another cog in the machine...

Originally posted by Glass
reply to post by andersensrm

 

Doesn't sound like that good of an idea. Tracking devices can be expensive and nobody profits from exile. Not to mention that three strikes is still potentially three dead people so this wouldn't solve anything.

The point is, is that people don't fear prison, or death, but they fear suffering. You would have to struggle to survive, nothing would bring an immediate solution, as far as I know, but this is just another way of not spending on prisoners, and exiling them from our society.

reply to post by silo13


I've looked into this case a little bit more since that post and i believe her own accounting of the event and her feelings afterwards that she expresses in her diary are pretty damning. This girl seems to have put in alot of premeditation into commiting this crime. To me that helps rule out the Prozac defense, like i said it can make you mean but Prozac can't answer for the premeditation in my opinion.

reply to post by andersensrm


But we would still be spending on money on criminals:

1) Cost of imprisonment for their first two offenses (includes food, lodging, clothing, medical care)

2) Cost of the tracking device and the surgery to have it implanted

3) Cost of transporting the criminal to a secluded area in the exile zone.

4) Cost of the land for the exile zone (a one-time cost but still potentially substantial, plus that becomes an area that cannot be used for any other purpose)

5) Cost of maintaining patrols and policing of the border of the exile zone, if applicable; if the exile zone shares no border with your country, the transportation cost increases accordingly.

Can anyone think of anything else?

I've got something; what happens in the future, after you've exiled hundreds of thousands of repeat offenders to this zone? Is it perhaps possible that these criminals could band together and form their own nation/tribe in this zone? What about when some of them die, and the survivors discover the tracking devices and where they are hidden?

Do you think, maybe, that they could start removing their trackers, and using the skills they've developed while surviving in a harsh land, ambush unsuspecting border patrols, maybe even acquire enough weaponry to wage guerilla warfare on the country that turned their back on them?

Theres clearly a lot more to this than simply dumping them in the wild.

Originally posted by lokdog
reply to post by silo13

 

I've looked into this case a little bit more since that post and i believe her own accounting of the event and her feelings afterwards that she expresses in her diary are pretty damning. This girl seems to have put in alot of premeditation into commiting this crime. To me that helps rule out the Prozac defense, like i said it can make you mean but Prozac can't answer for the premeditation in my opinion.

As someone who has taken Prozac I disagree. The altered state could indeed have lasted all the way from the premeditation to the act.

Glass my idea is to find islands to put the worst of criminals on, with high-tech security devices, and vast or turbulent stretches of sea, to prevent them from escaping.

If Cascadia is ever a reality I would like to send our worst offenders to forested islands off the coast of BC/SE Alaska. I think it's a lot more humane than putting someone in a cage before they die not to mention even more secure.

Hi guys sorry I haven't replied, iv had a pretty busy day.

Last night when i turned the computer off - coincidentally if you like, after debating in this thread - I sat down to watch a program called:Horizon: Are You Good Or Evil, on BBC4

This program was amazing, considering that I'd just been debating the subject, and it touched on everything we have been talking about - whether humans are born with evil tendencies. It turned out that we were both right, I'll quote something from The Guardian news paper which did a review of this documentary.

the answer to the question asked in Horizon – Are You Good Or Evil? A bunch of babies at Yale University was given a sort of morality test. It involved watching a puppet show and then picking out either the good cuddly toy who gave the ball back or the bad cuddly toy who ran away with the ball. Seventy per cent of the babies went with the good guy, suggesting that we're born with some kind of moral instinct. That's nice.

Whoa though, 70% leaves a lot behind. Does that mean We Need To Talk About The Other 30%? Is this little fella who went with the bad cuddly toy a psychopath, a little Kevin? Probably not. Some of the babies just got distracted or fell asleep, then just picked out whichever cuddly toy they fancied. But 70% is enough to suggest that we do at least start off with an inclination towards empathy and kindness.

That moral instinct can be suppressed though, through mistreatment or abuse. Or through training. A US marine can be taught to hate, and to kill, against his nature. But this is not psychologically healthy, he may continue to hate and to kill, even after the war is over. So these days he is taught differently; morality is part of the story, he is told he is an ethical warrior, killing in order to protect and defend

A California neuroscientist called Jim Fallon found he could identify killers just from their brain scans – they had the same abnormalities, had a signature brain profile; it seemed there was a biological basis for the urge to kill. And a genetic one. It emerged that being born with just one variant of one gene could predispose you to violent behaviour. The hallmark of evil could be traced back to people's brains, and genes.

Jim Fallon found out, during filming the show that he had relatives that had killed numerous amounts of people back in the early 1900's, so he decided to give his family a brain scans too - to see if this was hereditary. The test came back shocking, there were one odd one out of the group of 10, which had the same genes and the brain structure linked to violent behavior, a profile of a psychopath - It was Jim's own scans, so he carried all the tell tail signs of a psychopath! His family weren't surprised and went on to say that he had an explosive tempter with a short fuse..This got Jim thinking of why hadn't he killed?

The answer is that whether genes are triggered or not depends on what happens in your childhood. The genetic variant alone doesn't mean you're going to be a violent killer, but if you add childhood abuse to the mix, then the chances are a lot higher. Fortunately for Jim, and for his family, he had a delightful childhood, which had offset the potential for violence. For now ...

So in the end, we are all kind of right - You are born with evil inside you, it just has to be triggered by abuse when you was young.

The documentary went onto say that Jims not alone in having the traits of a psychopath, but not killing - we're actually surrounded by psychopaths - something ATS members have touched upon a good few times

We're surrounded by psychopaths, people who would be killers if their circumstances had been different or their childhoods less happy. The scientists call these people "successful psychopaths". They can be charming, charismatic, outgoing, they have a wide repertoire of behaviour. They are manipulative too, they know what you're thinking but not how you feel – so they're not hampered by feeling your pain. They'll walk all over you to get what they want, because they don't care what it does to you. Typically they do well, you'll find them in the boardroom, but it could have so easily been behind bars; the line between Freds The Shred and West is a thin one.

Source

When watching this, i started asking my self..Am i a psychopath? ..

Are you a psychopath? did you marry a psychopath?

Take a watch of this, i'll link the first video - I'm sure you guys will be able you YouTube the rest of the parts. I found it really odd that i turned the computer off after debating this thread, and this program was on. I promise you guys will enjoy it. My description probably did the docu no justice

reply to post by Glass


Wow love the criticism you ripped me apart on that one. Yea with that, probably not such a good idea, im glad you thought it more through than I.

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
We have many 18 year olds who feel this same way as this 15 year old girl.They enjoy killing.

They won't get a trail though. They are called Soldiers. They are like trained dogs, they even kill on command. Now if you ask me, that's way more scary.

That is total B.S. on so many levels.

Thirdly, the very few that do actually enjoy killing, are a little sick and twisted, but at least they have put their twistedness to a good cause in killing our enemies and eliminating threats to our safety. It is not in the slightest bit comparable to slowly and methodically murdering an innocent child and experimenting on the corpse just for curiousity's sake. Not comparable in the slightest way.

But, of course, if I had such a misguided view of the military, and if I said the same bone-headed things as you, then perhaps I would fear them as well, and with good reason!

You just hung yourself be condoning the illegal murdering of innocent people by psychopaths. Proof your brainwashing is in tact. i cannot believe you justify this. What next, take all the death row inmates and sign them up for Uncle Sam? You sir are one very sick individual.

Just do what the Soviets did and send criminals to the front line. Yes, even the females. At least they'll be of some use for society.

"How does it feel to shoot people?"

"I don't know, I've only shot enemies." -Unknown soldier