Missouri teen girl gets 'life' for killing 9yr girl to 'find out what it felt like'...

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posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready

I feel people these days think they are supposed to never be unhappy or apprehensive anymore. It seems very dangerous to me. We are supposed to get butterflies before a big speech, we are supposed to be sad when a loved one dies, we are supposed to experience, embrace, and evolve from these things, we are not supposed to mask them with drugs. Just my humble opinion.


You do have a good point. A lot of what is depression is just natural reaction to things. I don't agree that we 'should' be sad when a loved one dies as everyone reacts in different ways and not being sad is not callous and doesn't mean you didn't love them, it could just mean you are strong or death doesn't affect you much. But I definitely think that being depressed after someone you care about dies for a few months is totally normal. I'd only say it's abnormal if you grieve so much you never recover, like some people are so sensitive about death that they are depressed about their grandma dying of old age for 20 years after it happens, that seems a bit abnormal to me but they have every right to feel how they feel.




posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by L00kingGlass

Originally posted by lampsalot
What is it exactly that makes a killer 'cold blooded', as opposed to a
'warm blooded' killer?






"I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead," Bustamante wrote in her diary, which was read in court by a handwriting expert. "I don't know how to feel atm. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the 'ohmygawd I can't do this' feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now.


That sounds pretty passionate, ie hot blooded to me.

Why are crimes of passion more forgiven? I would argue that people kill in fits of rage are actually more dangerous to society than people who premeditate since they are more unpredictable.


If someone attacks in the heat of the moment, it is probably more targeted in a sense. A stressor, whether justifiable or not, caused them to lose self control and act on that impulse. I think these people have more of a chance of regretting their actions, seeing the error of their ways and less chance of repeating. If someone has anger issues, they can be treated.

On the other hand, a psychopath doesn't need a stressor/event to attack someone. They are more dangerous because they could kill someone for absolutely no reason. If someone is extremely emotionally detached, then they won't have the ability to empathize with others. They won't have that strong emotional response that pleads them to resist their violent impulse. At present, there is very little progress in rehabilitating psychopaths (from what i've read. maybe that has changed. Hopefully, one day we will figure out a reliable way to correct this behaviour.
edit on 9-2-2012 by phoenixlights321 because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-2-2012 by phoenixlights321 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


True, not everyone needs to feel "sad." Some people may celebrate death and rebirth in another realm, or they might just celebrate a life well-lived, etc. I guess I just meant people should feel something.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 



that seems a bit abnormal to me but they have every right to feel how they feel.

That is completely true. It's when the feelings interfere with living a relatively productive life that they need to be addressed. No one's feelings should ever be invalidated. Saying, "Get over it already!" is useless, and counterproductive.

When a person's feelings override their ability to function in life (socially, professionally, domestically, personally), then those 'abnormal' feelings can and should be examined and addressed.

Every person is unique in their suffering or joy; all tied in to their life experience and world-view.
When a person's 'coping mechanisms' include murder, that's a great big red flag.
Crying once a week when you think of grandma is something entirely different.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by lampsalot
 



that seems a bit abnormal to me but they have every right to feel how they feel.

That is completely true. It's when the feelings interfere with living a relatively productive life that they need to be addressed. No one's feelings should ever be invalidated. Saying, "Get over it already!" is useless, and counterproductive.

When a person's feelings override their ability to function in life (socially, professionally, domestically, personally), then those 'abnormal' feelings can and should be examined and addressed.

Every person is unique in their suffering or joy; all tied in to their life experience and world-view.
When a person's 'coping mechanisms' include murder, that's a great big red flag.
Crying once a week when you think of grandma is something entirely different.


Yeah I mean, my grandma died a couple years ago and you know, probably maybe at least once or twice a year in the far off future I might get a bit sad, but it would be really abnormal I think if someone was clinically depressed because their grandma died 20 years ago, or even if their mom died, and weren't able to function. But I wouldn't judge them for it or tell them to get over it.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


I had an uncle die 15 years ago, and I didn't cry at the funeral, and I didn't even feel much until I was just driving in my work truck one day about 2 years later, and all of a sudden I was flooded with regret and sadness. It still hits me randomly once in a while.

I lost my Dog to a terrible Doritos bag suicide about 2 years ago, and I was much more sad over the dog than any person I've ever known. He was a great dog, and he was with me for 15 years, and the last year or two he was more of a nuisance than a companion, and I should have been nicer and more patient with him. It's been 2 years, and he's just a dog, but it still makes me sad fairly often.

Back to the topic at hand, I don't think the murderer in this case feels things like we do. Even without the drugs she doesn't feel things like we do, and with the drugs she turned into a real life monster. She is most likely beyond any type of reform, so why should we keep her alive in captivity for life? Isn't it more humane to put her down?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by lampsalot
 


I had an uncle die 15 years ago, and I didn't cry at the funeral, and I didn't even feel much until I was just driving in my work truck one day about 2 years later, and all of a sudden I was flooded with regret and sadness. It still hits me randomly once in a while.

I lost my Dog to a terrible Doritos bag suicide about 2 years ago, and I was much more sad over the dog than any person I've ever known. He was a great dog, and he was with me for 15 years, and the last year or two he was more of a nuisance than a companion, and I should have been nicer and more patient with him. It's been 2 years, and he's just a dog, but it still makes me sad fairly often.

Back to the topic at hand, I don't think the murderer in this case feels things like we do. Even without the drugs she doesn't feel things like we do, and with the drugs she turned into a real life monster. She is most likely beyond any type of reform, so why should we keep her alive in captivity for life? Isn't it more humane to put her down?


Maybe we should give her a choice. Life in a mental hospital for the criminally insane or euthanasia? I don't have a problem with giving criminals the option of suicide, I just hate the idea of death as a punishment. I just find it so totalitarian and the idea of 'good people' being full of righteous hate just disgusts me for some reason.
edit on 9-2-2012 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by Neopan100
 


So now you would like to downgrade prisoners to basically Jewish status during World War II. I can't believe I actually read a statement like that. Never ever run for office ever, and to the people that support the idea of a prison system like that should be downright ashamed of themselves. The people in jail are people like you and me that have messed up. Messing up does not constitute being demoted to a farm animal.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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And I know what you are saying about animals! We had to give away our first cat and that hurt me more than when my grandma died. Even when my second cat ran away one time, and I didn't know if she would ever come home, I was crying hysterically.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by newsoul
 


Actually, this style of thinking is incorrect. Nature (a person's genes) and Nurture (their environment growing up) play a significant role in the development of a person.

Here's a study published just a few months ago on 84 violent offenders, which shows common abnormalities in brainwave patterns of these individuals.

www.pdf-archive.com... pdf

It's my personal belief that when a child doesn't experience love, safety, confidence as a child, that the areas of the brain which govern those emotions never become activate. Think of the brain as a muscle, and without exercising these areas through natural development, the muscle goes into atrophy.

You wouldn't expect a couch potato to be capable of running a marathon, so why are you expecting someone who was never taught/shown love/empathy/kindness, to be loving or have empathy?



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by lampsalot
Oh yeah another thing.

People always say 'think of the family, think of the victim's family, shouldn't they have a right to their vengeance?'. Well what if I turned that argument around. What if the murderer, what if this girl was your daughter? I bet you would be BEGGING for the system to have mercy on her.



I would not. I would, as a matter of fact, lobby for the death penalty, and go so far as to ask if I could throw the switch, on the grounds that I brought that evil into the world, and it's my responsibility to take it out.

If you doubt me in the least, you should check with my kids for confirmation. Every single one would tell you just how that would go. THEY have no doubts.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by lampsalot
Oh yeah another thing.

People always say 'think of the family, think of the victim's family, shouldn't they have a right to their vengeance?'. Well what if I turned that argument around. What if the murderer, what if this girl was your daughter? I bet you would be BEGGING for the system to have mercy on her.



I would not. I would, as a matter of fact, lobby for the death penalty, and go so far as to ask if I could throw the switch, on the grounds that I brought that evil into the world, and it's my responsibility to take it out.

If you doubt me in the least, you should check with my kids for confirmation. Every single one would tell you just how that would go. THEY have no doubts.




No offense but I'm glad you are not my dad lol

I admire your consistency on the issue though in an odd way.
edit on 9-2-2012 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Did you not read any of my posts? I posted ABSOLUTE SCIENTIFIC PROOF that these types of individuals can be reformed through neurofeedback. In fact the study I posted on 13 individuals with AsPD, one of the requirements for participation in that study was that all previous forms of therapy ( cognitive and drugs ) had failed.

So yes with traditional "let's talk about your feelings" and "here's a bunch of happy pills" these individuals were untreatable, but with retraining their brainwaves over 90% had significant positive treatment results.

And I'm sorry that you've experienced such events in your life as well as the emotional baggage that comes with them.

My grandfather had a heart attack and died while i was helping him walk inside 6 years ago, and it wasn't until just recently that I realized his death destroyed my self-confidence because he didn't say anything was wrong and was quite cheerful before collapsing into my arms, and I was in shock at the situation for 10 - 15 seconds before acting and calling 911.
edit on 9-2-2012 by Evil_Santa because: (no reason given)


In fact going further into my past. I grew up in an emotionally abusive household, and was bullied by my peers. At 15 due to my aggressive deliquent behavior, my family was given the option of putting me in a juvenal detention center until I was 18, or go live with a close relative who's a counselor. I was also on prozac at the time, had attempted suicide and would have violent "black-out" spells - to the point i had almost killed my sister during an argument. My parents chose to send me to my aunt and uncle, and to this day, their treatment helped me significantly with the emotional issues that had happened as a child by showing me love, kindness, and understanding. Instead of being a violent monster, i'm a productive member of society.

So yes, these individuals can be helped, and I am proof of this.
edit on 9-2-2012 by Evil_Santa because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-2-2012 by Evil_Santa because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 



Yeah I mean, my grandma died a couple years ago and you know, probably maybe at least once or twice a year in the far off future I might get a bit sad, but it would be really abnormal I think if someone was clinically depressed because their grandma died 20 years ago, or even if their mom died, and weren't able to function. But I wouldn't judge them for it or tell them to get over it.

Agreed. A person reacts the way they react.
My father died 18 months and 4 days ago. It wrecked me for awhile (we're talking tsunami waves of shaking and crying).
For months it made me cry to walk into the house where my mom still lives. Last time I was there, I was able to actually open the cabinet where I knew his cremains were. Before that I could barely look into the room.

I am now able to look at photos of him and smile; to see the things I inherited (his watch, his boat) and not weep. But still, sometimes when I'm tired or emotionally spent, I see those things and feel weepy.

If I were still crying and grieving uncontrollably (which is what it's like -- uncontrollable), I would be worried about me.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by lampsalot
 



Yeah I mean, my grandma died a couple years ago and you know, probably maybe at least once or twice a year in the far off future I might get a bit sad, but it would be really abnormal I think if someone was clinically depressed because their grandma died 20 years ago, or even if their mom died, and weren't able to function. But I wouldn't judge them for it or tell them to get over it.

Agreed. A person reacts the way they react.
My father died 18 months and 4 days ago. It wrecked me for awhile (we're talking tsunami waves of shaking and crying).
For months it made me cry to walk into the house where my mom still lives. Last time I was there, I was able to actually open the cabinet where I knew his cremains were. Before that I could barely look into the room.

I am now able to look at photos of him and smile; to see the things I inherited (his watch, his boat) and not weep. But still, sometimes when I'm tired or emotionally spent, I see those things and feel weepy.

If I were still crying and grieving uncontrollably (which is what it's like -- uncontrollable), I would be worried about me.



Do you think it's purely because you love and miss him so much or do you think there is a deeper psychological basis to it all? I'm glad you are better though!
edit on 9-2-2012 by lampsalot because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by lampsalot
 



Yeah I mean, my grandma died a couple years ago and you know, probably maybe at least once or twice a year in the far off future I might get a bit sad, but it would be really abnormal I think if someone was clinically depressed because their grandma died 20 years ago, or even if their mom died, and weren't able to function. But I wouldn't judge them for it or tell them to get over it.

Agreed. A person reacts the way they react.
My father died 18 months and 4 days ago. It wrecked me for awhile (we're talking tsunami waves of shaking and crying).
For months it made me cry to walk into the house where my mom still lives. Last time I was there, I was able to actually open the cabinet where I knew his cremains were. Before that I could barely look into the room.

I am now able to look at photos of him and smile; to see the things I inherited (his watch, his boat) and not weep. But still, sometimes when I'm tired or emotionally spent, I see those things and feel weepy.

If I were still crying and grieving uncontrollably (which is what it's like -- uncontrollable), I would be worried about me.




I know how you are feeling, my Dad died in 2002 at age 55 and my Mom in 2004 at age 62, both had a long term illness and we all knew it was coming but when it happened it destroyed me for a long time, even though its been years my husband still can't fathom why I have absolutely no pictures of them on my walls, in frames, or anywhere, I try to tell him that the thought of them gone still breaks me to pieces and looking at them makes me miss them and realize how empty I feel and how them not in my life is still making a difference, I don't know when I can eventually get over it or I will ever get over it to a point where I can put pictures up but I know that just typing this I have began to cry. I know this is off topic but I just wanted to share after reading this post.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by lampsalot
 


Naw, it's because I miss him and loved him very much.
I was privileged to be helping care for him in his decline...
we were close; but not as close as I wish we had been during my youth.

No psychological problem there, just.....missing and grieving a loved one.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by hapablab
 


reply to post by lampsalot
 


I understand guys/gals, but yeah, we're off topic here.

We can start a thread about grief if you like. It's a very personal process....

to try to re-rail the thread; people who feel only satisfaction at the death of another whose death for whom they are directly responsible, are of a completely different mindset.
We can't fathom their thinking, their reactions. Because that thinking, that reaction, is monstrous.

What do I want to happen to this girl?

Well, I hope that while she is segregated from society she is attended to, and counseled (which I'm sure she will be); and that one day she might be able to feel genuine remorse. Having said that, I doubt she will, unless (like Evil_Santa says), there is a new therapeutic method that can somehow awaken her humanity, erase her damage, and allow her to live a life that encompasses atoning for what she's done, advocating for victims, furthering research and treatment to deal with those who behave in a like manner,

and eventually come to a place of peace, ownership of what she did, and a dedication to making amends.
Do I think it's possible???

Eh. I don't know.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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No she, and she alone is responsible for what she did. Sure there are outside factors, but we ALL have those. She killed that girl, and they should just kill her.



posted on Feb, 9 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by n00bUK
This is yet another example of why there needs to be an alternative to prison.

I have nothing else to say other than I think story's like this should touch everybody's soul and make them realize that the system we have now has major faults. Prison wont change this girl, it will institutionalize her and give her a very distort her view on reality at a young age. There is ways of helping this girl, prison not been one of them.

My thoughts go out with the family, on both sides.

Society needs to look at what is triggering this type of behavior and instead of imprisoning them - deal with the problem, not put it on ice


Exactly my thoughts on this case. Prison or death penalties are not an answer. If you help a person to see how beautiful is life instead of putting him or her to prison and find him job before he gets out and a place to live if he needs that. I mean everybody should have second chance. Even if he kills.





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