One Million Moms rally at JcPenny's to fire Ellen Degeneres for being GAY!

reply to post by kaylaluv


Well then Ive come to the conclusion BOTH groups are infringing on each others "rights".

Although we all already have the same rights given to all of us under the Constitution.

reply to post by Annee

"Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose, they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us."

This is from the link I gave you just a post above.


NOM's is created for the protection of Marriage.
How is that not considered a positive reason? You may disagree with their mission but just because you disagree with it doesn't make it a negative to them or millions of other people.

Eta: Time and time again while reading their website, I see them repeating them selves, saying... they support civil unions, equal heath care for gays.. ect.
What they are fighting against is the redefinition of marriage.

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by Annee

 

"Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose, they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us."

This is from the link I gave you just a post above.


NOM's is created for the protection of Marriage.
How is that considered a positive reason? You may disagree with their mission but just because you disagree with it doesn't make it a negative to them or millions of other people.

Eta: Time and time again while reading their website, I see them repeating them selves, saying... they support civil unions, equal heath care for gays.. ect.
What they are fighting against is the redefinition of marriage.

But why is it that they don't seem to have a problem with other redefinitions of marriage, for example, someone getting married for reasons other than love and procreation? I don't see them fighting against people who marry strictly for business reasons, or people who marry for publicity reasons (like some in Hollywood do) or people who get married with no intention of having a family. The sole purpose of this group is to stop gays and lesbians from getting a marriage license. How is two people wanting to get married because they love each other and want to build a home/family with each other redefining marriage? That much more defines the traditional idea of marriage than a person marrying someone strictly because of the rich lifestyle they can provide.

They are discriminating against gays and lesbians because they are gays and lesbians. They know they don't have a chance of denying them equal healthcare, etc., so the marriage thing is their last holdout.

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by andersensrm

 

Obviously racism is still a big problem with you guys, its okay to talk about sexual oreintation, but not race, becasue thats bad. You've just proved to me that your racist because you still discriminate against it. Why not compare, it is the exact same thing that happened 150 years ago. Millions of people rallied, and did everything they can, because they saw the steps that were eventually leading to equal rights and liberty for everyone. If parents really don't want their kids exposed to TV, THEN DON"T LET THEM WATCH TV, that simple. If you don't want them to be educated a certain way, move schools. IF you don't like it here, then move, no one is forcing you to stay. Im not saying they can't rally, for whatever reason they want, but when you justify it as something other than hate for gays, your just lying to yourself, just like all the people did when they justified their hate for blacks on something else.

I've never bitch slapped anyone before but I guarantee you there's always a first time!

Pardon me while I don't grovel on my belly proving to the world I'm that I'm so intellectually inept that I can't see everyone as individuals as you enjoy doing.
You are incapable of arguing anything so you stoop as low as possible to bring race to the argument.
That's absolute proof that you haven't a clue and that you haven't lived life.
If you want a racist war with me, bring it on imp! Create a thread on it.
If not, I ask you to please leave me alone.
Do you have two names on here? You sure do remind me of another belly crawler.

Good to know you condone violence when someone accuses you of something. I see a comparison, then I will present it, if you don't like it show me how I am wrong, and so far you haven't. I'm not trying to call YOU a rascist, I was just comparing it to the way this rally is going about. Race is a touchy subject to you guys so I'll use hair color, doesn't matter to me, I don't get caught up in the semantics, rather I listen to understand the CONCEPT the person is trying to get across.

If ANYONE can show me how ANYTHING is being FORCED on these moms then I could understand. I am for equal rights, but not so other people can this kind of thing. Lets say the thread read " One Million Moms rally at JcPenny's to fire Ellen Degeneres for having red hair!". Would you consider that a hate group???

How bout you show me a hate group, according to you it doesn't exist.



Do I have two names?????


I've stooped so low, you're the one threatening to hit me, calling me a belly crawler, saying I haven't lived life, and say that I do this to prove that I feel so equally towards others. I don't need to prove anything to anyone. I don't know how to argue, yet you don't even read my words, rather you get stuck on the fact that I bring up race, which ( now think hard about this one) is rascist. If I said hair color, then it wouldn't have happened, because there has never been a history of people discriminating against hair color like skin color. I see no difference between the two, obviously you do.

Originally posted by sweetliberty
I'm saying if you're going to call a group a hate group, at least show me something to back it up.

How many times must I back it up?

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Well then Ive come to the conclusion BOTH groups are infringing on each others "rights".

Although we all already have the same rights given to all of us under the Constitution.

Show me how both groups are infringing on each others rights please.

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Well then Ive come to the conclusion BOTH groups are infringing on each others "rights".

Although we all already have the same rights given to all of us under the Constitution.

Show me how both groups are infringing on each others rights please.

:-) exactly andersensrm - nobody is having their rights trampled in this situation

We've got the one group that would very much like to trample on another groups rights. They bellow, demand and whine about this and that - but they were absolutely allowed to demand, bellow and whine - no one prevented them - they just didn't get the response they wanted

Sucks to be them right now - but that's the way it goes sometimes :-)

So, many people - out there and in here - have only been saying what they thought about this group - not that they shouldn't be allowed to say what they want to say, or even want what they want...we've just been saying that they appear to be bigoted, mean and wrong and that we do not agree with them

we're allowed to say things like that here in America - not everyone has to see things the same way

they can wish that we would listen to them and agree - but they shouldn't expect it - they certainly can't demand it - it isn't a right :-)

NOM was established specifically to stop gays from the Equal Right of Marriage.

The National Organization for Marriage (NOM) is an American nonprofit political organization established in 2007 to work against legalization of same-sex marriage in the United States, specifically to pass California Proposition 8 banning same-sex marriage in California. The group has opposed civil union legislation and has fought to have adoption agencies retain the ability to refuse to place children with same-sex couples. NOM's current president is Brian S. Brown. en.wikipedia.org...

AFA is equivalent - - even if they attempt to spin it differently (no one is fooled). Some other "family group" organizations have changed and/or toned down their wording to avoid backlash or being added to the SPLC official hate list.

The American Family Association (AFA) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization that promotes conservative Christian values, such as opposition to same-sex marriage, pornography, and abortion, as well as other public policy goals such as deregulation of the oil industry and lobbying against the Employee Free Choice Act. It was founded in 1977 by Rev. Donald Wildmon as the National Federation for Decency and is headquartered in Tupelo, Mississippi.

AFA has been criticized by civil rights organizations and other entities for what have been described as controversial stances, in particular the "propagation of known falsehoods" and "demonizing propaganda" about homosexuality, which in November 2010 led to its being named a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Annee


hey Annee :-)

I'm sure we can all agree - there's still a fight ahead - and trying to achieve what's fair and right for everybody is a never ending struggle

but it helps that we live here - and that we stand a fair chance of seeing real change as long as rational people are interpreting the law - even if that means it needs to be reinterpreted over and over again - this is just how it works

meantime - here's an interesting piece - speaking of rational and irrational

I found it to be both comforting - and amusing :-)

So there you have it: That’s the best case that can be made against gay marriage. An appeals court dissent that rests on the premise that states needn’t act rationally, or offer evidence of rationality, or even be rational in creating classifications, so long as someone publishes a study and someone else believes it. That’s the best they’ve got, it seems.

That is not legal argument or empirical evidence. It is the death rattle of a movement that has no legal argument or empirical evidence. Nobody disputes the fact that Americans opposed to gay marriage believe passionately in their ideas and arguments. But that doesn’t necessarily mean those arguments should win in a court. The best thing that could have happened in the Prop 8 case just happened. The dissent has no clothes.

www.slate.com...

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by Annee

 

hey Annee :-)

I'm sure we can all agree - there's still a fight ahead - and trying to achieve what's fair and right for everybody is a never ending struggle.

Yes! Being from the 50s - - I've been personally observing this for many years. How sad is it - - that I was a senior in high school when the Civil Rights Act was passed. In MY Lifetime!!!!!!!!!!

I observed from personal experience inequality before the Fair Housing Act was passed in 1968 - - when I was 21 years old. The Disability Act in 1990. (and more).

Christianity had a "grip lock" in my public school. If you weren't Christian - - you participated anyway - - and kept your mouth shut.

I remember Madalyn Murray O’Hair and her fight to remove prayer from public school. I didn't agree back then - - but I sure do today.

We are progressing. Its a good thing.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by sweetliberty
I'm saying if you're going to call a group a hate group, at least show me something to back it up.

How many times must I back it up?

You've given me nothing Annee.
You call this group a hate group. You compare them to the KKK.
You said a voice on a radio said something.
Have there been any cross burning in anyone's yards, murders, .... how about derogatory names.... Give something/anything Annee to validate this Please.

You posted a video that was exactly opposite of you claims. WHERE'S THE PROOF THIS IS A HATE GROUP?

reply to post by sweetliberty

WHERE'S THE PROOF THIS IS A HATE GROUP?

I'd be interested to hear what your definition of a hate group is

just so we know what we're all talking about

I'm serious - how would you define it?

maybe the problem here (as if there's just the one) is that we're not all talking about the same thing

Originally posted by Manhater
Are you kidding me? Hey you soccer moms this isn't suburbia anymore.

Like I thought we just left the 60s" This is the new millennium and if she wants to be gay, she has every right to be gay. It's not like she's trying to convert your children.

Some people. I'm surprised they manage to round up a million people for this. It's just a dang job, just like any other job. Get a grip you step-ford wives.

What disturbs me the most is that they can put together a massive protest over something ridiculous and ignore the myriad of other real issues that exist that they should be concerned about. I'd love to see them put their energy into something more worthwhile than attacking Ellen Degeneres. Not to mention, this sort of thing has the opposite effect than what they're intending.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by sweetliberty

 

WHERE'S THE PROOF THIS IS A HATE GROUP?

I'd be interested to hear what your definition of a hate group is

just so we know what we're all talking about

I'm serious - how would you define it?

maybe the problem here (as if there's just the one) is that we're not all talking about the same thing

At times it does seem like there's a communication problem here.
Annee insists NOM's and AFA are hate groups.
The more I look at those websites; the more I read on them... the less and less I find any proof to back up her claims.
Has anyone on this site bothered to read them?
All I'm asking for is something more concrete than her claiming she heard Mr. Brown say "yes' and "no" to some questions asked by a radio station host.

I've noticed the word "haters" used by Ellen so I guess thats why Annee uses it.
She's also claiming this group is (NOM's) exists because people are gay.
I see the NOM's group trying to preserve the definition of marriage. They even state their purpose for being is because they want to preserve the definition of Marriage.
They want "gays" to have the same benefits and also civil unions but they are fighting them to preserve the definition of marriage.
Soooo, lol, where's the hate?
Where's the harsh rhetoric? Where's the violence? Misdemeanor or felony?
Here we have one side calling the other side "haters". So where can I find the NOM's calling gays.... any kind of word that's derogatory?
NOM's is not a hate group, they simply disagree with same sex "marriage" and are exercising their rights.
By doing this, they are called haters.

Originally posted by sweetliberty
You've given me nothing Annee.
You call this group a hate group. You compare them to the KKK.
You said a voice on a radio said something.

FACT: you refuse to acknowledge or accept what I've posted.

FACT: You laugh at and refuse to give credibility to The Southern Poverty Law Center. You think they're just a big joke.

That says volumes about you.

SPLC’s Anti-Gay Hate List Compiled With Diligence and Clear Standards

. . . Mr. Franck’s statement that the SPLC published a report “identifying a dozen or so anti-gay hate groups, some for no apparent reason other than their vocal opposition to same-sex marriage.” Anyone who read our report would have known that we identified exactly 13 organizations as hate groups – and not one of them was listed because of their position on same-sex marriage.

We detailed clearly the criteria we used for identifying an organization as an anti-gay hate group: “[T]heir propagation of known falsehoods – claims about LGBT people that have been thoroughly discredited by scientific authorities – and repeated, groundless name-calling.” By “known falsehoods,” we mean such things as asserting that gays and lesbians are more disposed to molesting children than heterosexuals – which the overwhelming weight of credible scientific research has determined is patently untrue. Nowhere in our report do we equate taking a position against same-sex marriage with hate speech.

reply to post by sweetliberty


They are called haters because they bring their beliefs into the equation of governing people. It may be their belief that same sex marriage is bad, it may be their belief that same sex couples can't raise a child correctly, or however you'd want to say it, but this is a country where are beliefs are for us, and us only. We can't control other people based on our beliefs. Now as a society we have certain rules we all abide by, for example your not supposed to hurt or kill anybody, in America, you are allowed to believe in whatever you want to believe in, so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. To this rally group it is their belief that gay's are "bad" they influence in the wrong way, yada yada yada, so they infringe on Ellen's right to be treated like a human being to oust her out simply for not conforming to their beliefs. So far they haven't infringed on her right, because she is still the spokeswoman, if she is ousted for the pure fact that she is gay, or the fact that she doesn't sit well with your beliefs, that would be an infringement of her rights.

The rally group, which I would call a hate group. I don't think you have to commit violence to be considered a hate group. If there was some infringement of the rights of this hate group, it would be a different story, they also then wouldn't be considered a hate group, because they're aren't basing their motives purely on belief that gays are some how "bad".

Here's an interesting one. Officially one of the hate groups listed by the SPLC.

AFA (American Family Association) - - parent of "One Million Moms/Dads".

Gays aren’t the AFA’s only enemies. In late 2009, Fischer suggested that all Muslims should be banned from joining the U.S. military. “Islam is a totalitarian political ideology,” Fischer added in August 2010. “It is as racist as the KKK. ... Allowing a mosque to be built in town is fundamentally no different that granting a building permit to a KKK cultural center built in honor of some King Kleagle.” A little later, according to the Huffington Post, Fischer said that whatever the government does to "to make it unthinkable for America's youth to join a white supremacist group," it should also do "to make it as unthinkable for a resident of America to embrace Islam." Around the same time, the Huffington Post said, he blogged that Muslim values are "grossly incompatible with American values," and therefore no place in America should allow a mosque to be built. www.splcenter.org...

reply to post by Annee


Journalists Beware: Learn the truth about SPLC's methods

Grasping for attention, and no doubt to expand its donor base, the SPLC's recent report claims that the number of so-called "hate groups" has risen 4 percent since 2008 and over 50 percent since 2000. With great fanfare, they warn their own members and uncritical journalists of a "firestorm" of hate engulfing the land. Yet, the Southern Poverty Law Center offers no concrete information about these so-called "hate groups." For example, the Southern Poverty Law Center never identifies exactly where they are; or even who are they, what they believe, or how they act. How many members do they have, if any? Do they have money? How can you contact them? Do they really even exist as an operational group?

FACT: you refuse to acknowledge or accept what I've posted.

I've acknowledged what you've posted...
I just can't accept here-say and a video that contains the exact opposite of your hate claims.

FACT: You laugh at and refuse to give credibility to The Southern Poverty Law Center. You think they're just a big joke. That says volumes about you.

I posted (again) something that knocks your article out.
Like I said before, they're both opinions.

You can not give me anything to prove to me or others that NOM's or AFA are hate groups.

I also proved to you that it's all in the language.
Ellen spreads the "hater" language in the same article the JC Penny CEO committed in.
He was able to give the same argument without using trash words. It's people like you who can't lean on decent language to get your point across.
If you used language and argument like the CEO instead of taking the hate drug you seem to crave, you'd have a valid argument. Eta, maybe I should say... a good argument.

FACT:
Your claims are unsubstantiated and full of here say and negative emotions.

Show me where NOM's and AFA are hate groups.

reply to post by sweetliberty


Show me how their rights are infringed upon, and I will apologize for refering to them as a hate group

Originally posted by sweetliberty
reply to post by Annee

 

Journalists Beware: Learn the truth about SPLC's methods

Provide me with a source and credibility for Fair Investigative Alert.